Dayshine Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 This thread. Remarkable. I know, it's incredibly how such a "more intelligent, calm community" responds to reasonable self-criticism with hatred and immaturity. I simply ask for a justification for the rule (albeit with some spin, but you don't get a response on this forum unless you make someone care enough to reply) and instantly am branded a moron trying to impose my idiotic ways upon the development team. Hell, I was just looking for a way to find out where the bottlenecks were. I'm an experienced java developer and have played around with Minecraft's classes enough to be useful. I know there are more open source mods out there and if they happen to be the same ones that need a push before the next tekkit build I could lend a hand. But nope, I'm a "Newbie", branded "WHY ISN'T THE TECHNIC TEAM DOING WHAT I WANT WAAAH" for my curiosity. Is this really a mature way to respond? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakj Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 As a community, we adore drama, It's a popcorn event and we don't have to buy the 3d glasses to enjoy it. This. THIS. So much, this. I feel like I have come home, in this place. This is a forum that lets me be a snarky little git and say "fuck" a lot. It's like having my own jacuzzi to relax in after a long day at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSevigny Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 wow.,.. just wow... First off, YOU'RE A FUCKING GUEST!!!!!! You are the one that doesn't have to come here. You're the one that didn't follow the rules and then asked DEMANDED a justification. If I came to your house and shit on your coffee table would it then be okay for me to demand justification for your anger at me and why you were throwing me out of your house? Of fucking course not. Use your brain, Keller. The simple reason that there is no eta has been hashed out over and over and over again. Having been an active member in several different game communities, all on the modding or additive side, I've come across one common trend. There are NEVER ETAs. And it is ALWAYS against the rules to ask for the ETA of a mod. Even if it's not explicitly stated, it IS A BEST PRACTICE. The developers are doing this for a hobby, for their own experience and joy. Not for you. The world isn't yours. It's everyone's. Everyone is responsible for their own happiness. So take some ownership and move on. If you don't like the attitude of the responses, stop and take a couple of steps in their shoes. If you're asking the question, how many before you have asked? Now you understand why they lose it when they see the question? Still not satisfied? Then I direct your attention to the top right hand corner of this page. Enjoy. Giggle. And GOTFO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakachu Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Surely there's a middle ground between "everybody is a winner!" and "tough shit"? Like I said, the first couple replies on this thread were perfectly fine, was the harassment and bickering that followed really necessary? It certainly wasn't the "more intelligent, calm community" you said you desired. in order: no, there isn't. yes it was. we are calm. none of us are frothing at the mouth here, banging angrily away at our keyboards and I hope that includes you. what you misunderstand is that laughing at stupid people is both enjoyable and a great way to either make them get a clue or leave, which is a win for us either way. look at my post history, I am often snarky, condescending, and elitist when replying to topics made by stupid people who can't read a sticky. if they actually come back with useful information or the thread starts off the way it should, I'm far more accommodating. this is how it should be IMO. edit: oh and for that other guy scoffing about "are you even a developer? didn't think so", I am a developer. not for technic, but I am a developer. I even know java! yay! Jakj is also a developer and is even working on a mod that he hopes will improve the technic pack eventually last I heard, so get bent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum Administrators KakerMix Posted March 31, 2012 Forum Administrators Share Posted March 31, 2012 Man I respond honestly and look what happens! Damn! I should of just went "LOL GAYS" and banned banned banned! Serves me right I guess! My issue isn't the lack of an ETA, I really do appreciate how difficult it can be to be completely dependent on other developers before you can do anything. My issue is the response this question generates. Honestly, most of the first page of this thread contained perfectly reasonable and level-headed responses, but then it degenerated into screaming and harassment. It's funny because you don't see the giant amount of raw posts we deal with. You heard it here first folks, this thread = everything. This is true, and I really do appreciate it. It's far more convenient to direct my players to the Tekkit launcher then have to muck about with modded .jar files. But it's also a little frustrating to have some very annoying bugs in the capstone mods that, according to change logs, have been fixed in the newer versions. I'm not complaining, my point is just that there are perfectly valid reasons why someone might be looking forward to newer versions. Re: KakerMix Yelling at your users and telling them them to suck it up is certainly easer, and that is also your decision if it's the community image you're looking for. But keep in mind that it's not just the OP you're responding to. Just look at how many views this thread has generated compared to the others, it's clearly a question that many people have on their mind. And when your project runs on donations it might, possibly, be a good idea to tell all those people something less frustrating than "suck it up". This is the least subtle "ah but you didn't think of THIS and how your responses have CONSEQUENCES !" comment I've seen in a while. I just got done explaining exactly *why* I don't want everyone here, I want a certain kind of person to be in this community, to contribute. People that 'get' it. If you don't 'get' it then yeah, we are just a bunch of asshat prima donnas. The part about donations is totally true. Projects that do run on donations most definitely should do what they can to make sure that potential donators feel welcome and appreciated. You are totally right man! Surely there's a middle ground between "everybody is a winner!" and "tough shit"? Like I said, the first couple replies on this thread were perfectly fine, was the harassment and bickering that followed really necessary? It certainly wasn't the "more intelligent, calm community" you said you desired. I am also not quite sure how the rules can be any clearer. We don't give ETAs for the reasons that people have already said more clearly than I can. I am honestly really surprised how you can not get what we are saying. There is zero benefit to us giving out an ETA. The end result is exactly the same, just that we also get to try to deal with "IS IT DONE YET" posts because we are trying to ride the middle ground instead of nipping that shit in the bud. I know you are trying to raise some backlash-phantom so I'll take what you say more seriously, but I maintain that you have no idea how to run a forum, and you can sit over there and clutch your 'E-etiquette handbook' and claim our day of reckoning is coming. I also get really bothered when people pasionately get into a debate like this when they don't know as much as they think they know. You see a donate page, you assume that we accept donations and that this is a donate-funding project. You really, REALLY should read what the actual donate page says. There is no confusion about it. Like the rules we have, it is very clear. I know, it's incredibly how such a "more intelligent, calm community" responds to reasonable self-criticism with hatred and immaturity. I simply ask for a justification for the rule (albeit with some spin, but you don't get a response on this forum unless you make someone care enough to reply) and instantly am branded a moron trying to impose my idiotic ways upon the development team. Hell, I was just looking for a way to find out where the bottlenecks were. I'm an experienced java developer and have played around with Minecraft's classes enough to be useful. I know there are more open source mods out there and if they happen to be the same ones that need a push before the next tekkit build I could lend a hand. But nope, I'm a "Newbie", branded "WHY ISN'T THE TECHNIC TEAM DOING WHAT I WANT WAAAH" for my curiosity. Is this really a mature way to respond? Man we so can't take criticism at all. We also never explain anything, we just blindly piss in the wind, screaming "FUCK YOU DAD!" while blaring Linkin Park over my 92 Cavalier's speakers. What do you expect to happen? "Oh sorry Mr. Dayshine please, let me explain to you, personally, why the rules are the way they are." Do you REALLY expect us to sit down and one-on-one explain rules to everyone that asks? Why can't you just accept that the rules are what they are? Its not like they are weird or odd or anything, they are clear. Quite clear, actually. People sure do get upset when we enforce the rules too. They are rules, not suggestions, so I really don't see how you can get upset when we enforce the rules we bothered writing up. Like you have been told by no less than THREE people, and you would have been able to figure out if you thought about it for just a minute, the bottleneck is the content-creators themselves, the modders. The best road that is available is the one we take. If you still can't see why we do it then I really, really think you are just looking to argue instead of actually gaining some knowledge out of this debate of ours. EDIT I ENUNCIATED the fuck out of this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardc0de Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 My github account http://github.com/admiral0. Insulting people is useless.... I proposed a couple of things, all ignored. Now let's be clear. Suggestions: * Solve DMCA issue or move your git repository if solving is impossible * Prevent same issues in the future by doing a construct script (i can help here if you stop insulting) * mods - create a sticky: "development is happening on github: please look at the logs for infos and please don't ask stupid questions" * why not make a minilauncher(cmdline) in java for the server? So it downloads everything and assembles à la technic launcher. (would help, so the codebase is the same with the GUI launcher) * stop being arrogant please. it's just annoying, it doesn't contribute to the discussion except for the lulz. I'm sorry if i offended anyone, but i don't tollerate being treated like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtlicious Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Does being a dick to moderators ever work? I mean has anyone said "FUCK YOU ADMIN! MY DICK TASTE LIKE GATORADE, WHY DON'T YOU SUCK IT?!" and gotten anything but a ban? I just don't get how people think 4 pages of arguing with the mods is helpful to anyone. They don't have to explain the rules any more then your parents/teachers/Probation officer has to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakachu Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 My github account http://github.com/admiral0. Insulting people is useless.... I proposed a couple of things, all ignored. Now let's be clear. Suggestions: * Solve DMCA issue or move your git repository if solving is impossible * Prevent same issues in the future by doing a construct script (i can help here if you stop insulting) * mods - create a sticky: "development is happening on github: please look at the logs for infos and please don't ask stupid questions" * why not make a minilauncher(cmdline) in java for the server? So it downloads everything and assembles à la technic launcher. (would help, so the codebase is the same with the GUI launcher) * stop being arrogant please. it's just annoying, it doesn't contribute to the discussion except for the lulz. I'm sorry if i offended anyone, but i don't tollerate being treated like that. I am not kaker or a mod, but allow me to weigh in on these suggestions 1) they're already in the process of removing the DMCA notice, github is just super slow 2) overengineer ALL the things! 3) do you honestly think this would be any better than the rule already in place? go take a look in the server section, open any whitelist server thread until you find one that requires age in the application. almost every single person applying will be between 10-18 years old. it won't make a difference. 4) while this is a neat idea, I really don't want my server auto-updating. auto-updates means auto-break-shit-without-warning and even more inevitable "wrong version wut?!?!" posts. 5) you first, guy. I think you fundamentally misunderstand what the goal of this mod pack is. it is not to be "professional" if you get what I mean. it seems to me that the goal has always been to make the best possible minecraft mod experience with the least hassle to the end user in a way that takes the least effort from kaker and his team. why in the easiest way possible for the packers? because they're doing this on their free time for no money with lots of children/adults whining at them or telling them how they should do it. in fact, not only do they not get paid but they actively REFUSE payment of any kind. you have to really love what you're doing to burn money on it like they are doing and that garners a large amount of respect from me. if you want to contribute, that's great! posts like this are not how you go about going that. showing up and acting like you're god's gift to programmers and if we'd just realize that and treat you right, you'd work miracles out of the goodness of your kind heart doesn't really help either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardc0de Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I understand your point, but it's how i reply in these cases. 1) Pleased to hear. I'd blog it. 2) i'm a computer engineering student after all 3) i really had trouble finding where development happened. It would be supernice if in the main site someone made a developers page with git info and developer info like: * our buildsystem uses maven * our git repo is here-> link * external libs are here 4) i agree, that's why ncurses(CUI) exists. java -jar launcher.jar --update would give you update options and perform updates. Not so difficult to achieve with *current* infastructure. Steps would be creating a CLI ui program and add to maven. Creating YAML config for constructing tekkit server. 5) Being mean/a dick/arrogant triggers shitty responses from me automagically. I wanted to create something like this modpack for ages... I had a working mockup(in C++/Qt) that had multiple minecraft instances working, but i never started coding the minecraft profile importer. I had profiles like this. <profile> .... <overlay type="jar"> <source type="http" value="[url]http://blabla"[/url] /> </overlay> <overlay type="config"> <source type="http" value="[url]http://blabla"[/url] /> </overlay> </profile> I never acted like that. just consider, why should one contribute if community is full of hate and insults? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakj Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I never acted like that. just consider, why should one contribute if community is full of hate and insults? You need to go back to a dictionary and remind yourself what "hate" means, because this ain't it. Insults are fun, and we seem to be doing just fine. Plenty of people here, contributing, enjoying themselves. You seem to be the one upset. Ever hear of a square peg in a round hole? Buddy, you just might be quadrilateral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungry_Myst Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 look at my post history, I am often snarky, condescending, and elitist when replying to topics made by stupid people who can't read a sticky. if they actually come back with useful information or the thread starts off the way it should, I'm far more accommodating. this is how it should be IMO. To your credit the posts directed to me have been much more reasoned, if a little aggressive. Projects that do run on donations most definitely should do what they can to make sure that potential donators feel welcome and appreciated. I stand corrected. I realize that these things don't make money on donations unless the community is very generous/dedicated, but whatever helps. I did not realize, however, that you didn't accept donations at all and instead directed people to the mod anthers donation links. For this I apologize, as this fact nullifies most of my argument; I should have looked a little harder before making it. Like you have been told by no less than THREE people, and you would have been able to figure out if you thought about it for just a minute, the bottleneck is the content-creators themselves, the modders. Allow me to quote myself: My issue isn't the lack of an ETA, I really do appreciate how difficult it can be to be completely dependent on other developers before you can do anything. My issue is the response this question generates. Honestly, most of the first page of this thread contained perfectly reasonable and level-headed responses, but then it degenerated into screaming and harassment. No, I do not know how to run a forum, certainly noting of this size. I'm also not a lawyer but that doesn't mean I can't identify unjust laws. Coming to this thread from google with the same question, and seeing this sort of response, is quite annoying. HOWEVER, a lot of my frustration here stems from a larger annoyance with the minecraft community in general, and considering what you said I'm starting to realize that in this case it's misplaced. I do still think that this thread could have done with a little less harassment from both sides. But your, completely selfless, donation policy and the complete lack of adfly links changes things a bit. By the way, I "get it" more then you give me credit for, and I'm sorry for venting my frustrations to a group who didn't deserve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MephistosChan Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Sooooo, no update yet then? Joke, joke, it's April fools day after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volgarenthor Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 This thread took a huge turn for the...win. In all seriousness, if you cant handle the burn, gtfo of the fire. Running websites of this size is a huge responsibility. Running websites of this size, while updating technic, and dealing with stupid shit that could be avoided by simply educating yourself on the rules and proper posting procedure of the website/forums while not being paid to do so. BIG FUCKING STRESS. Lighten up or go home. Hopefully you have learned something from this. Take your broken ass record player and come back when it is playing an acceptable tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithGB Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Right... I'm going to try and point out some elementary things to both sides here since no one seems to be actually bothering to keep their cool: Tekkit End Users -The guys working on this cannot do anything without the constituent mods being updated first -Buggy questions are annoying, I can empathise a little Techs -Users asking a question cannot be flamed for doing so, be polite, it doesn't kill you even if it is very repetitive -Please empathise with the End Users a little, you (and the mod creators themselves) have done such an awesome job you can't blame the players for jones-ing for it. Honestly, I think some indication would be handy, not a fixed deadline or anything, I understand none of the current wait is Tekkit's fault, it's Bukkit's (who are actually doing a pretty thorough re-do as I understand it, so it's for the best) and all the mods (although the mod's are doing a great job of keeping up with releases). As someone who has played vanilla plenty, then ran a Bukkit server, then played with Tekkit and much prefers 1.1 with Tekkit to 1.2 without I am pretty content. But me and a friend are setting up a server and we have been waiting a while, first for MC, then Bukkit and eventually Tekkit (although, again, none of your fault). So we have been trying to keep tabs on these releases, and Tekkit is very difficult to track as it requires us firstly to watch all the different mods, and then to twiddle our thumbs as we don't know how long these things take to do. A week? A month? Other mods and peripheral programmes anad compilations do keep an End-User update of their progress which is handy, now I'm not saying everything should be detailed because that is very annoying to do and 90% of the time its the Tekkit techs having to twiddle thumbs waiting for MC, Bukkit and the mods. So here is my 2 pence: Sticky a read-only topic, in it should be stated what is being waited for. Be it MC/Bukkit or some other mods so people can go flame them if they so wish. And when it finally gets to Tekkit development just put something either saying, "Shouldn't be too long, not much updates. Perhaps a week?" or "This was a big update, and we havae RL stuff to do so might be a month or so. " Now if that doesn't satisfy everyone them someone is clearly PMSing. P.s. Techs: Thanks for combining these mods, they are so much better combine and really open up the game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakj Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 it doesn't kill you even if it is very repetitive Incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchful11 Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 I agree with KeithGB, post a sticky saying your working on it/waiting for other people. Not a date, just something that says, we know minecraft is updated, we are waiting on the mods to update. I'm saying this because the only only official indication of this is small paragraph in the FAQ's. Of course anyone who bothers to read anything on these forums can see the daily, "WHEN TEKKIT UPDATE?!?" threads. And the people who post these threads obviously don't read anything. If you had a sticky, people could just refer stupid people to them, instead of starting a 5 page shouting match. Of course its up to you to decide what to do, personally i enjoy reading these. This is the only forum I have ever been on that I read threads just for laughs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakachu Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 -Users asking a question cannot be flamed for doing so, be polite, it doesn't kill you even if it is very repetitive really? 'cause I do it all the time. whoever convinced you that there are no stupid questions was wrong. there's a TON of them. at the risk of sounding a little TOO full of myself, don't patronize me telling me to be polite. if people randomly walked up to you asking you the most obvious of questions like "what color is the sky?", "why am I standing up?",or "what's my name?" again and again you would eventually be less than polite when answering. imagine that, but there's also a large sign right behind you with the exact answers to the questions they're asking and they are ignoring it to ask you instead. that's the tech support sections of this forum. the fact that anyone even bothers to help 90% of the people posting there is miracle in and of itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum Administrators KakerMix Posted April 2, 2012 Forum Administrators Share Posted April 2, 2012 *white noise* Man why are you people so dense, so dense! I'm surrounded by neutron stars. I've already explained multiple times why there is no ETA. Doing what you suggest exacerbates the problem, it doesn't help at all. For the reasons I've listed already. Many times. Why are you so pent-up on an update? Does that somehow make the current Tekkit not work as well? Maybe you should play some other games? Hang out with some friends? Do something else? Updating will move exactly as fast as it will move, and no amount of ETAs and fuzzy posts that nobody will read can change that. I agree with KeithGB, post a sticky saying your working on it/waiting for other people. Not a date, just something that says, we know minecraft is updated, we are waiting on the mods to update. I'm saying this because the only only official indication of this is small paragraph in the FAQ's. Of course anyone who bothers to read anything on these forums can see the daily, "WHEN TEKKIT UPDATE?!?" threads. And the people who post these threads obviously don't read anything. If you had a sticky, people could just refer stupid people to them, instead of starting a 5 page shouting match. Of course its up to you to decide what to do, personally i enjoy reading these. This is the only forum I have ever been on that I read threads just for laughs. If you know Minecraft has updated, then we know Minecraft has updated. I really don't get what is so hard for you few people that are stuck on this ETA business. I am running out of words to use and phrases to say, and things to relate it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragnHntr Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Man this thread is gold. Popcorn indeed. Here's an idea, if you don't like the way technic team does things, don't use it. It's seriously not that hard to make your own modpack. My wife and I really wanted to play on 1.2.3 (Thaumcraft 2! Yay!) so I went to the forums and asked when technic would update... no wait that would be moronic. What I did was spend a couple hours making a mod pack with 90% of the things technic has. I haven't even modded very heavily before, haven't done it in awhile, and know jack shit about java. Just buckle down, get your hands dirty and do it yourself. Figure it out, its rewarding. If you really really can't figure out how to do it yourself or are too lazy, can't you just be happy that something like technic exists at all? I mean seriously, if someone handed you a free sandwich are you going to complain about what kind it is? Nobody owes you a free sandwich, either take it or don't but for the love of god stop bitching. Kaker, you are spending far too much effort on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchful11 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 I also agree with DragnHntr, if your giving it to us, we have no right to demand it. I'm sorry if i came off as demanding, it was just a suggestion. You could have this conversation once, in a sticky, then link new demanders to the sticky. But i agree, its completely up to you what you do with these forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zath137 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Yes as much as I would like it to update but it might even NOT become 1.2.4 because of mods needing to be updated. (Ext: BuildCraft, Balkon's Weapons Mod, Ect...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorgenzola Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 I am grateful to the tekkit staff for bringing all these amazing mods together, for free, with an easy installer that does all the work for me. I am not entitled to someone doing all this work for me. I respect the staff's simple and easy to understand rules. If you want to help Tekkit along, maybe use the donate button to give the mod-makers a monetary incentive to keep building their mods along so that we can all benefit from future Tekkit updates. Thanks to all the mod makers and Tekkit team for making Minecraft so much more interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissKariss Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I understand the op asked a question that was clearly stated in the rules as a question not to be asked, but I do not get why jay had to be so rude. The first reply was a good enough answer and even let her know not to ask and if it is such a pain in the ass to deal with people who ask this question just delete the post instead of making her the subject of ridicule for pages and pages. (You could be doing something much more helpful to this community in the time you wasted bashing people here) Or just don't be a moderator! You mods and devs and admins all brought a certain amount of responsibility on yourself by deciding to be a part of the technic pack and this website. Many other people who update mods or control forums can do so in a respectful manner to ALL users. In my search for questions (which there are many I have about this pack) I have seen numerous people on other forums saying they have been banned from here for simple questions (and not this one!) or just say that the admin here is downright rude and hateful. Now I see that first hand and I almost want to stop playing tekkit as to not support this crap. I won't because it is awesome, but these forums are a different story... why even have a donate button if you are going to be such dicks? Also there is a difference between being able to say fuck a lot and being rude to people who really don't deserve it to this level. A little slap on the wrist, fine, but this whole thread is about the devs saying they would rather be assholes than say a sentence like" Look at the rules/sticky". I understand doing that a hundred times sucks but that is what community is for... others can reply and tell the newbies that or whatever and then mods can just delete the posts so they dont cause clutter. TL:DR - I have never read of moderators being as rude as technic moderators. Deleting this post would have sufficed without the hatefulness so stop being lazy and trying to cover it up with being an asshole and do your job! Mods, devs, and admins all have responsibilities to upkeep this forum and make it a pleasant place for ALL who may use it just as us users do to read the rules and adhere to them. Don't reply to someone breaking the rules by being irresponsible yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakj Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 We've already proven with quantitative, objective evidence why such an attitude from the moderation team is both warranted and appropriate. You are demonstrably wrong. Give it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragnHntr Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 why even have a donate button if you are going to be such dicks? Technic team doesn't take donations. They are trying to get people to donate to the mod authors only. Tehnic pack is operating at a loss. Servers and such are all paid for directly out of the pocket of the devs. They are putting their time, effort and money into technic so that you can enjoy it, and all they ask in return is a forum community where people read the stickies without having to be told to do so. Is it really that much to ask for people to actually look for their own answers before posting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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