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aidancbrady

Why Mekanism will not feature BuildCraft integration for 1.6

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I hope you all have grown to love Mekanism's universal energy system, the ease of converting energy between systems with my Universal Cable and machine/generator power framework. I have throughly enjoyed integrating BuildCraft, and due to Krapht and many others' hard work, this implementation was rather easy. BuildCraft has seemed to be following along the lines of a proper open-source project, accepting PRs quickly and building upon what SpaceToad's idea was. I have been excited about 1.6 to see what all BuildCraft has to offer for it's supposedly revamped energy system by CovertJaguar.

Looking on GitHub, there are some wonderful improvements - PowerProviders can now be side-based, allowing for easier, more realistic MJ-based mechanisms, and receiveEnergy() can now return rejected energy in order to prevent power loss. One minor catch, however. This update also finalizes the "PowerProvider" class, and removes "IPowerProvider" which previously was used for managing a complete BuildCraft power framework. This means there will be absolutely no flexibility when working with the system, and all power interactions will have to act exactly how CovertJaguar intends for them to work.

CJ has always been a good friend of mine, he's open to suggestions and has helped me many times in the past. I wouldn't have sent two donations of $15 to him otherwise. I don't appreciate his strict closed-source development, but he still accepts input from the community. This change to the BuildCraft power system, however, does the mod no justice that I can see. Not only is he cutting off many possibilities for mods that could potentially integrate with BuildCraft's API, but he is also screwing over developers that already use BuildCraft significantly in their own mods. Mekanism uses custom PowerProviders for managing it's machines, generators, and Universal Cables, without these systems my support for the mod would literally fall apart. Not to mention my great friend King_Lemming's Thermal Expansion, which is entirely built upon the core of BuildCraft's power framework, who will most likely have to completely remodel the way his mod works.

Why would he do such a thing and make it immensely difficult for us developers to work with the "open-source" BuildCraft API? There are several reasons that I can see.

  • CovertJaguar intends for BuildCraft-integrated mods to serve primarily as addons. This was the case with IC2 for quite some time until Alblaka smartly loosened on his iron fist on his mod.
  • CovertJaguar feels threatened by Thermal Expansion, and he does this major refactor knowing KL will be unable to integrate.
  • CovertJaguar intends for BuildCraft to serve as a power network primarily working with his Railcraft and Sengir's Forestry, and he doesn't want to deal with the possible competition of other BC-based mods.

These explanations are what immediately came to mind, and there are several others that I will not list. There's a chance that he actually has another plan in mind for a more flexible API, but this response over IRC when referencing the API kind of threw this aside:

<Calclavia: lol, not very flexible>

<CovertJaguar: its not supposed to be>

What? APIs are not supposed to be flexible? Let's let him explain:

<Calclavia: An API is not supposed to be flexible lol?>

<CovertJaguar: and API is ment to provide an interface into a propriatary system, so that you can interact with that system on its terms>

Ok, so he's basically saying that you can only integrate with BuildCraft if the integration meets his standards. In other words you cannot do complete integration unless you are CJ himself.

Because of these ridiculous actions and statements I am withdrawing complete BuildCraft support from Mekanism for the next major update. No longer will my any of my content interact in any way with the BuildCraft API.

There is some good news, however. King_Lemming is going to be creating his own, unique version of the BuildCraft power framework, and I have plans to add integration with this the day it is released.

That is all.

-*signature stolen by Signature Gnomes*

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Wait, so not only is CJ breaking things with his own mod (*cough*trailblocks*cough*), he's now also breaking things through others too?

When will the killing screwups end?

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Geez! Covert Jaguar is such a [REDACTED]!!!!

v_v The Minecraft mods that I 'grew up with' are really not doing to well. IC2 = dead. Buildcraft = Killed by CJ.

What next? RailCraft installed with the technic launcher will erase your OS files?!?!?!?!

Ahh, well, I look forward to seeing what King Lemming will come up with. If I ever manage to put together a mod I will most certainly be using his power instead of Naz- I mean BuildCraft's.

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Whelp. That ship has certainly sailed, and I'll be happy looking for what the Royal Lemmus Himself cooks up with his version.

Bring it on.

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Being open source it's entirely possible for someone to fork it, re-add the necessary compatability, and re-release as something like Open Buildcraft.

If you wanted to really piss him off, fork every release he does and add the needed classes. Their sweet tears and melodic screams of "They're stealing my/his work!" would be so lovely.

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@Neowolf, you do know that he can just... stop being opensource if that happens. I mean, he isn't gonna stop being an ass.

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@Neowolf, you do know that he can just... stop being opensource if that happens. I mean, he isn't gonna stop being an ass.

Like Viktor, I'm not entirely asure, but I do know he'll have to get atleast the permission of SpaceToad to close the source. Most likely he'll need permission from every contributor.

It's not trivial to close source a project.

It may not be GPL or similar, but their license is close enough. Specifically the line that derivations must be under the same license applies.

Is Spacetoad gone or something? How did CJ even become in charge of Buildcraft?

Spacetoad dropped out awhile ago, like around minecraft 1.2. He handed off development to some others who had been helping him. Then sengir took over, and now CJ has seemingly takes over from him.

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I see. Bummer. Anyway, it seems to me like really drastic changes are imminent. The new Tekkit is a Buildcraft themed pack but that doesn't seem so attractive anymore.

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If he tried closed-sourcing it without the agreement of others, I think he couldn't complain if people just decompile it. He's the one breaking the licence, not us ;)

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Funny thing is the only thing BC provides nothing that isn't already in the pack. TE covers power generation/delivery and liquid delivery, MFR and AE move/sort items, and computercraft can dig/build.

BC is just more compact that MFR and there is no way to power a CC quarry via MJ (though there are CC addons that provide that).

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Somebody make a pump mod. Simple as that, (lol) we've got great modders 'round here.

What are they going to do for electric smelting and stuff? I'm sure CJ's crowd wouldn't continue to use thermal expansion after forcing it out of Buildcraft.

Edit: That actually would be simple. Even I could probably do it. Buildcraft isn't closed source yet, somebody copy the pump code!

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*bing*

Idea.

I'm not sure if I read the license right, but it appears to me that it allows users to change the source code and distribute those changes. If that is in fact the case then somebody could copy Buildcraft except for the parts that have to do with power (Engines, Quarry, conductive Pipes, etc.) and make it into it's own mod. Maybe... StarterTech? BasicTech? or just Buildcraft-Lite?

Or I could be wrong and doing that would be illegal. =P

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Such is the beauty of open source: this is perfectly fine and even encouraged. BC with an external energy system (TE, IC, UE could be supported) would make sense IMO. One could even release a BC for 1.6 using the old energy API, or maybe supporting both the old and new APIs.

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Yeah! Though, would it actually be possible for CJ to change the license? I'll bet he wouldn't hesitate to take that opportunity from us.

("Heh heh heh. Imagine how fast technic will die if I take their Buildcraft!")

Edit: Although I think that may be exaggerating his dislike for us.

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Yeah! Though, would it actually be possible for CJ to change the license?

Yes, if he got every BC contributor ever to agree to it, so in other words not realistically.

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Damn, I thought the MC modding community was starting to get better.

Looks like another drama storm is coming...

Hopefully it doesn't cause too much damage...

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In my opinion, this thread seems very childish. You go on saying how much you respect a certain modder and how you are good friends with him and all of that stuff, and then you say he makes one change to a mod and start raising up a shit storm about how he is such a crappy person, how he is trying to ruin someone else's mod, and how he is being greedy by wanting people to have to rely on buildcraft and not let other people add their own alternatives to it. Basically, in my eyes, you are being a drama queen in the modding community and you are trying to ruin a modder's reputation. Wait, isn't that kind of what you were complaining about him, how he was ruining someone else's mod? If you are in fact good friends with him, then instead of being a little drama queen and trying to get a bunch of people to start hating on CovertJaguar, why don't you try and resolve this issue with him in private so everyone can enjoy having the mods they like continue to function as they do? I understand that you are probably a bit ticked off that some compatibility was lost because of the changes he made, but in the eyes of me, someone who loves playing mod packs such as technic, tekkit, and FTB, the changes that were made to the buildcraft power system are actually pretty cool and were much needed for the mod. You are a modder, so why don't you work with CovertJaguar to keep the compatibility you need and make it work with the new power system?

Ok that was my rant for the day, I don't mean any hard feelings or hate from this post, but I am just trying to say maybe you could work it out in another way.

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In my opinion, this thread seems very childish. You go on saying how much you respect a certain modder and how you are good friends with him and all of that stuff, and then you say he makes one change to a mod and start raising up a shit storm about how he is such a crappy person, how he is trying to ruin someone else's mod, and how he is being greedy by wanting people to have to rely on buildcraft and not let other people add their own alternatives to it. Basically, in my eyes, you are being a drama queen in the modding community and you are trying to ruin a modder's reputation. Wait, isn't that kind of what you were complaining about him, how he was ruining someone else's mod? If you are in fact good friends with him, then instead of being a little drama queen and trying to get a bunch of people to start hating on CovertJaguar, why don't you try and resolve this issue with him in private so everyone can enjoy having the mods they like continue to function as they do? I understand that you are probably a bit ticked off that some compatibility was lost because of the changes he made, but in the eyes of me, someone who loves playing mod packs such as technic, tekkit, and FTB, the changes that were made to the buildcraft power system are actually pretty cool and were much needed for the mod. You are a modder, so why don't you work with CovertJaguar to keep the compatibility you need and make it work with the new power system?

Ok that was my rant for the day, I don't mean any hard feelings or hate from this post, but I am just trying to say maybe you could work it out in another way.

You sure are a dumb guy.

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