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Hyperwræth

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Everything posted by Hyperwræth

  1. Silmenume, you have my gratitude. ---- @planetguy hmm I might look at it sometime. Personally I always liked Thaumcraft because of how balanced it is. Like literally everything you do in that mod has a serious negative consequence. I'm starting to change my guess on why it was removed. Contradicting what I wrote in my wall of text, it did interact with the other mods with stuff like the thaumatic generator, and it did provide some machines (like the research desk and insanely costly duplicator. Maybe it had to do with the Aura counting as another power system, idk. Edit: OK so I looked at AetherCraft: its like the condensers from EE2. So I see a couple problems with it. To create a working system, it only requires 2 diamonds and an emerald, which basically means people are going to be transmuting their cobblestone into diamonds really early, and they can do so infinitely. Second, I think the aether conduits counts as another redundant power system, and third its only updated for 1.4.5
  2. Let's finish this, I'm done after this. Edit: I had to condense the quotes because I had too many lool OK lets recap the values of tekkit. Straight from the website: "Get your gear in order and prepare to blast off on an adventure all your own with Tekkit." So we got 2 parts to this mod. The first is the "gear in order," implying (well, even if it doesn't you know its in there) the whole technology and automation aspect of the mod, which mods like MFR, TE, and BuildCraft all pertain to. Then you have the "blast off on an adventure" half, which mods like Mystcraft, DimDoors, and Twilight Forest pertain to. In fact, they made a big deal about that whole adventure thing on the website. Now where does EE3 fit in? It goes on the machine and automation side. It allows for some interesting synergy with the autocrafting tables and machines like quarries, I'll give you that, but the synergy is corrupt and unhealthy for the game, which I will get into later. Now just to prove that EE3 had to fit one of those catagories to make it in Tekkit: "...a renewed sense of adventure and a focused drive..." EE3 is luckier than its brother, Thaumcraft, which didn't survive the transition. Also pertaining to alchemy, my guess would be because it didn't have as much to offer in terms of interaction with other mods, and thus failed to fit either category. OK, moving on: Lets compare some arguments. A) The generation of non-renewable resources allows for automation that shouldn't be possible When I made obvious how EE3 allows you to sustainably create non-renewable resources/take atrocious shortcuts, you took it as EE3 is taking the fun out of the game. That is not what I meant. I mean #1) It lets you make simple factories able to create the most advanced items in the game, and #2 Overshadows any mods bypassed with the transmution shortcut. Sorry my example wasn't good at all; it was late at night and I was hoping it was enough to spread the general idea. Bi) It allows you to create exactly what you need at any given time from your [crap] So I come out stating how EE3 allows people to create the resources they need faster than they should be, and its also on-command when ever you want. Similar to my last argument, you assumed the point I implied was that EE3 takes the fun out of the game. Then I'm not sure if your stating or exaggerating, but you describe the game harder than it would be without EE3. We already have pulverizers and the such so the grinding isn't that excessive without it, but add EE3 and there is simply not enough grinding because you can always transmute something up when your short a material and turn all your obsidian into diamonds. Then you started comparing EE3 to the other mods, and made a valid point in that EE3 isn't the only mod making things easier, however there is a significant difference between EE3 and the other mods, in that "automating everything and producing huge amounts of electricity also doesn't allow you to create certain expensive resources on command," which is more of what makes EE3 OP. C) This causes it to break tekkit and overshadow the other mods The main argument here is: transmution in EE3 affects the machine synergy badly; however if a mod is OP you can simply avoid it; then its so fundamentally broken that it shouldn't be an option; but that might be too limiting. The next argument was that the ability to sustainably generate non-renewable resources and to create certain expensive resources on command breaks the game by rendering all the other mods useless late-game, and then "You cannot 'break' a sandbox game whatsoever," implying that's because you can choose to remove EE3 from your own client. Sorry if that's a little confusing... well, really confusing, but keeping an OP mod in standard tekkit, then saying 'you can remove it if you want to' is wrong; it should be the other way around. With that out of the way, I don't think its even disputable that EE3 overshadows the other mods. And this brings us to our conclusion: Conclusion EE3 meets the same fate as its alchemical brother, Thaumcraft. Seemingly unfortunate to some, not every mod can make it into Tekkit, for then it wouldn't have a focus. EE3 doesn't belong in the pack for numerous reasons, essentially eclipsing the other mods.
  3. Nice effort but you missed my points. I didn't connote that EE takes the fun from the game, I said that A) The generation of non-renewable resources allows for automation that shouldn't be possible, Bi) It allows you to create exactly what you need at any given time from your crap, and C) This causes it to break tekkit and overshadow the other mods. Also, my prior point that alchemy =/= industry.This pack's purpose is to test the synergy between mods with different machines and forms of automation. Transmutation bends the synergy for the worse. Regarding what you wrote, there is a canyon between the power of EE and the mods you listed. Sure, TE lets you do things like double ore yields and MFR automate everything you could do in vanilla minecraft, however those didn't interfere with the sustainable generation of non-renewable resources. The only mod that allows you to turn cobblestone into iron is EE. Doubling ore yields, automating everything and producing huge amounts of electricity also doesn't allow you to create certain expensive resources on command. The reasons I gave to why EE breaks tekkit are still legit. Your argument was simply irrelevant. I understand the mod is fun; I used it extensively myself, however it doesn't belong.
  4. And that, kitti, is why EE is so freakin broken. That completely eclipses every other mod. IDC how late game it is, or how slow it is to create EMC, being able to generate every resource in the game completely breaks the game from a creative viewpoint. Say you wanted to make a musket factory when you were bored late-game. Muskets required iron. To make the factory work, you would have to make an incredibly complex but sustainable iron golem farm or a non-sustainable quarry to get the iron. Or you could just grab your minium stone, plop down a cobblestone generator and transmute it all into iron. In general, the way EE turns your crap into non-renewable resources allows you to automate things that really shouldn't be possible at such a simple level (Edit: Or possible at all! Maybe you shouldn't be able to transmute up all the diamonds in the world). "But if you think its OP you can just remove it not take away the fun from the rest of us..." Its so fundamentally broken it shouldn't even be an option to mess around with. The antithesis would literally make more sense: have tekkit not include it and have to be added in separately. It makes hard-to-get items much easier to obtain like ender pearls... because maybe you shouldn't be accumulating them that fast. You get the idea. Overall, removing EE will make people think about how they will obtain all their necessities late-game, and make it last a bit longer without the transmute-crap-into-everything-I-need. No matter how late you are in the game should you have said power.
  5. Apology accepted. IC2 prooobably isn't coming back, so I guess we'll see when TE4 is out. I have no idea what they have planned, but it better be something good . The way that the cables are split up 3 times does sorta suggest that they will flesh out their separate power levels. Maybe.
  6. Oh god this discussion derailed fast. I updated the OP a bit more and I believe a few of my points still remain valid. As Curunir explained, I know that the modpack has its limits and that its probably best off the way it is, but if there was only some way to fill in the gaps that are left... I just feel like the gaps were core. They were pretty significant parts of the game, particularly my argument on how the game advances, it felt like there was more progress and steps when IC2 was in the game. I'm not sure how well the redstone flux system can mimic IC2's electricity... I mean its not like there are well defined medium and high voltage systems ya'know? By systems I mean different levels of generators and useful machines. Edit: Aaaand another paragraph on the above.
  7. OK guys thanks for the intelligent responses. I updated the OP with the changes. Sadly I haven't had much time to play the new Tekkit, looks like I missed quite a bit of information here. Still getting used to the changes and all the new mods >.<
  8. Edit: OP's been edited So around a year ago I played tekkit extensively, and now I'm considering returning because I found it quite fun. The first thing that surprised me, of course, is the removal of IC2 and RP3 from the modpack, 2 very core mods. As I continued researching the changes, I found out that most of what was in IC2 was supposed to be in Thermal Expansion or MineFactoryReloaded (both mods I knew pretty well); I tried to be understanding, however I feel like multiple key aspects are missing. #1 Sources of Power IC2 had a bunch of generators that ran on things other than coal, lava, and fuel. The one's I'm probably going to miss the most are going to be the renewable ones, like the watermill, that was always reliable and could supply a small steady stream of power after being hooked up to a BC pump. (Edit) IMO, it wasn't cheap or OP; it was a reward for moving beyond coal generators to form something sustainable (but unable to power the next voltage up). Above all, I'm going to miss the Nuclear Reactors(Edit: yeah didn't know about 'big reactors.' that mod looks pretty elaborate too >.<). Those things added a certain skill element in the game in getting them working without loosing your house, and they reworded you with colossal amounts of electricity. And the other thing IC2 provided are a myirad of machines that can actually use all the different levels of power. Which brings us to our next point... Note: Extra Utilities will somewhat remedy the lack of generator options #2 Machines, doing stuff you can't normally do, higher level machines, and more distinct levels of power IC2 just added so many machines to the game, and the thing I liked about them opposed to MFR and TE is that they mostly did things you couldn't do yourself. In fact, that was the whole idea behind both buildcraft and minefactory reloaded: automate all the things you have to do in vanilla minecraft so Steve doesn't have to budge a muscle. Adding things you can't do in normal minecraft sort of adds a dimension to the game. IRL, humans did advance in technology and make stuff with the new machines they you couldn't in the caveman age. From the current mods we do have the electric furnace, pulverizer, and a half****d compressor (from galacticraft), but having the extractor and the (normal) compressor demonstrates what I wrote above, and then there are the machines that eat up a lot of power. Stuff like the terraformer and the teleporter were really cool, and you don't have those super advanced machines in TE and MFR. They also don't properly 'tier' as well, if you get what I'm saying. Buildcraft sort of does with 3 levels of engines and a mining well vs. quarry and such, but TE and MFE all feel like they're stuck at level one. When you went up a voltage level in IC2, you really knew it. You had to replace your batbox with an MFE (IIRC), get thicker wires and then you could get medium voltage machines and play with transformers so the lower ones were still usable. It felt like actual progress and it facilitated the fun. (Edited in) #2.5 Specifically Distinct Power Levels The way the IC2 electricity system was distinctively divided into the 4 power categories gave the player a good feel of where they are on the grand scheme of technology; how much is ahead of them, and how much they've accomplished. Literally everything in a factory have to be upgraded, but generators and machines were at the crux of it. This is something I'm not sure the redstone flux system will be able to replicate. Not only would we need higher level versions of the core machines (pulverizer) but this would be an opportunity for new kinds of machines to do high-level stuff. IC2 is basically the perfect model for what machines there should be at each level (so more stuff like teleporters and terraformers). The higher level generators are sorta there with the combustion engines, nuclear reactors and certain dynamos when given particular fuels. One of the things I'm not sure if the current system can handle is transformers; if the game is ever going to truly have more distinctly tiered voltages, then it would be capable of having them. Overall, what more distinct power levels added was a more certain path of progression, rather than wandering around wondering what you should build next, if you get what I'm saying, something like that is important in any game/mod. (Edit) Hmm the way that there are 3 different wires might suggest that TE might expand more on their individual power levels. Lastly, I appreciated how IC2 had a more elaborate endgame with more high level machines and equipment... which coincidently brings us to our next point. #3 Power Items Just like lacking power machines, we're also lacking rewarding powerful endgame items and weapons. Now I understand that the quantum suit was ridiculous, but that's not what I'm asking for. There should be something a step down from that to facilitate getting rewarded for advancing in technology. Just some armor different from the modular power armor that you can only make after making all the technological advancements, then some cool electric tools(Edit: This seems to be somewhat remedied by Redstone Arsenal; still looking for things beyond the basic tools). Things like the chainsaw and the mining laser that we had in IC2, as well as the light swords, and of course the nuke. (Edit) IC2 just had that awesome myriad of non-basic electrical tools... I really hope the redstone arsenal could some day live up to what it was. #4 Something minor: The Frame Motors At least the block placer and breaker was replaced by MFR. However the frames and frame motors from Red Power were a pretty powerful part of the game. Being about to create structures that moved automatically opened up so many possibilities.(Edit: OK yeah covered by redstone in motion) And lets not forget Wireless Redstone. Where did it go? Nothing like it is in MFR. It was necessary for controlling stuff from far away, things encased inside something (I will miss you Modular Force Fields), and stuff traveling around on one of those fancy frame motor platforms. Edit: Didn't know that "Chicken Chunks" meant wireless redstone >.< Now that I remembered Modular Force Fields, I remember what a great endgame item they were. Required tons of power, but were completely indestructible. Actually manage to build one of those things, and you don't have to worry about your nuclear reactor blowing up your house, and in SMP, it was a completely foolproof way of avoiding people from stealing and trying to blow up your house with a nuke and that jerk who dropped some white decay in the overworld. Also creating light bridges and the such. Forcefields were definitely a fun part of the game. EDIT: Someone said they they're still here... they were an extension of IC2 so were they updated to also work with MJ now? Sorry I haven't had time to play much of the new Tekkit. ----- Sidenote: remove EE3. I know its nothing like the EE2 we had a year ago but it really doesn't fit with the technological theme. Alchemy =/= industry. It just provides cheap ways to convert all your cobblestone into diamonds you really shouldn't have yet, and the such. (Edit) If EE3 is mostly necessary for making those high-demand ender pearls... maybe there's something else to make that go more smoothly, or maybe the mod that eats up enderpearls could be rebalanced. Conclusion There are definitely a lot of things in IC2 and RP3 that weren't compensated by the new mods. I'm not asking for you guys to put the mods back in; someone should make a mod with all this stuff in it, to compensate for all the things we used to have, without having the multiple power systems and redundant machines that IC2 was removed for. I'm going to quote myself here, because I selfishly like what I wrote. Let me know if there is something missing, or something I mentioned is actually made up in some way. Edit: Yeah looks like I missed a lot.
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