Mojang and Bukkit.

[Tbone]

Hi..

I am new to tekkit, and i love it, it makes everything so easy.

But.. What does it mean for tekkit that Mojang and Bukkit is together now?

[linkthegamer]

MOAR DONGS!

Nah, in all seriousness it means they hired some of the communities more competent developers and that we should get a good game mod API and maybe a server mod API upgrade. It also means it is not just going to be Jeb and that AI guy who's name i can never recall will not be the only ones working on Minecraft.

Truly I hope that this not only brings bukkit's improvements to minecraft but that the bukkit team might also work with other teams like Forge and Spout to improve the Launcher, the Game, and the Server.

Hopefully it means the technic crew will have an even easier time making the pack.

At worse it mean the complete and utter end of the Technic pack.

[FrogBash]

I think the Technic pack wields too much public weight to just let it go by the wayside. Unless of course the Technic team says "This is too much for us underpaid and 'over-appriciated' devs to work through"

[KakerMix]

STORY TIME WITH KAKERMIX

Mojang hiring the four Bukkit guys is an insult to quite a few people, and more than you would think. First, lets go over a history of Bukkit, where it started and how it grew. I will be quoting poemdexter here:

1. hey0 starts modding with a few class files you can shove into jar that adds things like whitelist and such.

2. hey0 decides to write an interface (hmod) that hooks into a lot of the functionality of the minecraft server.

3. A few people (including me) write mods using this interface. Everything I did on Poem's Palace was using hey0's interface and I kept in contact with him constantly over steam.

4. hey0 starts his website/forums to help people use hmod. A few developers hop on with him to help out.

5. One Christmas hey0 goes on vacation with his family and an update comes out for minecraft which breaks his interface because of the obfuscation on Notch's classes.

6. The developers are having trouble updating hmod since hey0 pretty much drove development.

7. Asshat admin on the hmod IRC channel spreads a rumor that hey0 isn't going to let the developers release a new version until he's back on vacation and can approve the code.

8. Same asshat admin takes all the developers and goes off to start bukkit.

9. hey0 gets back, updates hmod since the devs didn't know what they were doing, and quits modding because of the drama.

10. Bukkit team struggle for months getting something that even vaguely resembles the functionality that hmod had.

Nary a mention of how Bukkit has its roots in the work hey0 did, but fine, whatever. Bukkit also pretends client-side mods don't exist. What are client mods you may ask? Why, the very mods that make Technic/Tekkit special. RedPower, Equivalent Exchange, Thaumcraft, Buildcraft, Balkons, IC2, all these mods are client mods since they modify the actual Minecraft code on the client's machine. Basically, if a mod adds things, be it a block, sprite, mob or UI, that's a client mod. The things that make new tools, effects, colors and gameplay, those are client side mods.

Bukkit only modifies the server, so if you want to teleport in a Bukkit server, you have to do it within the confines of vanilla Minecraft. People get extremely clever within this limitation of course, using neat tricks with block types and the portal graphics, but basically, if you want to do cool things in Bukkit you get used to typing /do a thing.

I dislike the Bukkit team, I dislike their ego, I dislike how they act like they don't make mistakes, I dislike how they never mention hey0, I dislike that they've been handed the keys to making the official mod API, I dislike how now its going to put an even bigger strain on server ops because Bukkit is now dead. I don't think the bukkit guys are as competent as they should be and I don't have any confidence in these guys developing an API that can compete with the API's that we have already.

Notice though that this doesn't stop the modding scene we already have. I'm sure the drama is going to reach stratospheric heights in the coming months, but that's on the MCForums and elsewhere. We've got what we've got and we can make do. I could also be very very wrong and I hope I am, all I've ever wanted is Minecraft to be moddable, accessible and fun.

[FrogBash]

Wow... I would never have known. Bukkit seems pretty cool from my perspective, but that is a very limited view as well which only dates back 2 months. I began using some of the plugins for Bukkit to assist with the server administration. I am still at odds with what to use (plugin wise).

I am rooting for the Technic team 100% whether you guys go solo (without Bukkit) or not.

Thanks for sharing that back story.

[linkthegamer]

The moral of the story, Bukkit admins = Dickbags

There I made the cliffnote version.

I never new they were so evil but it don't surprise me, with 4 million players or so the community for MC is full of people like this. I really do hope that they prove you wrong and somehow make improvements comparable to the existing ones be. Sadly I have learned that most Minecraft projects are fueled by drama.

Oh hey kaker... wanna see something funny... here is THEIR version of what happened from their About Us page and there FAQ answer to what makes makes Bukkit different:

"You're in good hands

Much of the Bukkit team consists of people who were Minecraft users first and then hMod plugin developers giving the Bukkit Project a unique and varying view of what a Minecraft server mod should be providing. Along with experience as developers, many of our Team members, including myself run popular and large Minecraft communities and servers.

Furthermore, the core Bukkit Development Team consists of the people who have been maintaining hMod for the past few months. In fact, the birth of the Bukkit Project resulted from a discussion between Dinnerbone and myself about the many changes we were interested in making to hMod which would result in complete breakage of current hMod compatibility. That being said, we have a few months of experience under our belt already maintaining and developing mods (both our own and by other people)."

And there FAQ answer for hMod devs thinking about developing for it:

"I used to use hMod, what is different with CraftBukkit?

hMod was developed with a mindset of "add it as it is needed" which made for some messy and inefficient code. CraftBukkit has been designed focusing on performance and doing things right.

As such, CraftBukkit is, essentially, just like the original Minecraft server but made to be extremely extensible and customisable through the use of plugins. "

Back up your story as it looks like they had some kind of vendetta against hMod. Sorry for the info overload.

Wow... I would never have known. Bukkit seems pretty cool from my perspective, but that is a very limited view as well which only dates back 2 months. I began using some of the plugins for Bukkit to assist with the server administration. I am still at odds with what to use (plugin wise).

I am rooting for the Technic team 100% whether you guys go solo (without Bukkit) or not.

Thanks for sharing that back story.

At least the Bukkit source is available if it comes to that point Technic could attempt to fork it.

Edit: Fixed some incomplete thoughts.

[FrogBash]

I read that on their site... Ugh! The only credit they give to hMod is negative credit- to me that is always bad publicity when you talk down about your "competition" which I believe hMod is still considered to them.

[linkthegamer]

I read that on their site... Ugh! The only credit they give to hMod is negative credit- to me that is always bad publicity when you talk down about your "competition" which I believe hMod is still considered to them.

That was what I was thinking, it would be another thing if it was more positive like "...Changes that would break hMod. We decided rather then make hMod an unstable mess we would fork the code and start our own project." even if it was a lie it show respect to hMod. As for their answer, well you don't just insult your origins, it make me think "then why did you stay on with hMod for any length of time if it was just a horrible mess?" or "Well did you try saying to hey0 'Look, this Add As Needed mindset you (allegedly) have is producing some very messy and inefficient code, would it be possible for us to maybe change that in order to produce high quality code?' and seeing what hey0 said?" I used to be in a project to make a Linux distribution and would never think of saying "Oh you should use OUR system becuase Windows is a horrible, nightmarish mess!" but be more respectful about it "Why use our system? Well while Windows is a great OS and we took many of the excellent ideas they used it in, It is not really that efficient for what we wanted to do." While it is still on the insulting it shows RESPECT for the competition.

Moral of the text: Insulting the competition makes you look childish and unsure. Why insult hMod if you are sure Bukkit was better then, if it was people would try it and say "Hey this IS better!" and if they tried hMod they would be like "It is okay, but Bukkit was better, I's switching back." then there would be no need to try and scare them away from hMod in the first place. Right now their text just seems to say "We are better then hMod was, you should never try it ever, trust us, it sucks."

[FrogBash]

Exactly. I just started to look into building my own server and bukkit doesn't seem all that impressive for user friendliness. I can't imagine hMod was worse. Yeah.. the pluggins are easy to add (when they are made specifically for bukkit) but mods and stuff seem so much more difficult to work with to get in bukkit.. I again, take my hat off to the technic team for their great accomplishment.