Economy Help???

[Hayross]

Okay, I naturally like trading, but minecraft(tekkit even more) has made it near impossible. how on earth do i create an economy with out changing tekkit?

-Happy Thanksgiving!!!!!!

-Sorry turkeys

[DXWarlock]

If you got EE enabled. Just throw your hands up and walk away from any sort of thought of economy.

IF EE is disabled..do what I did, setup 20 64x64 quarries..filter out all but ores, gems, and such. and make a chart that figures out the ratios of them to each other..to get a average worth for each one.

trying to setup and economy using any 'renewable' resource (why i only use ores, they are finite) is near impossible, as someone will produce infinite amounts of them with no worry of it becoming rare. Set the finite items as the gauge for prices in a global shop (and only buy those items to distribute money), and let the players decide what they deem the other items worth in trade for them.

[DXWarlock]

If it helps any this is what I have for what "spawn buys" we only buy ores. and the ratio is such based of rarity and count(taking into account some drop more per block, or can be macerated.. that's what the 'adjusted count' is).

So theoretically someone mining for an hour, should make the same money no matter what hes mining for.

Because (using random numbers here) lets say coal is 60x more common than diamond. In an hour he will find 60x more of it..but its 60x cheaper.

If I mined every ore off my map, and sold them all..each would give me roughly the same total price. As in mining all the coal would give me, say, $4,000,000. Mining all the diamond would also give me $4,000,000.

We use the IC2 credits, so the prices seem low. But its proportional. Prices might be low, but that only means each ic2 credit is worth 'more' in itself. The last columns of 'buy and sell' are ic2 credits.'price' is iconomy money..since Towny wont take ic2 credit items for payment.

[Hayross]

thanks, but if i were to create a server, how would i disable EE? more importantly, what creates a stable thriving economy?

p.s. thanks for all the info

[Hayross]

and another thing, if you only trade ores, then won't the specialty consist of like 99% miners and 1% Random other job (fisherman?)?

[Xylord]

and another thing, if you only trade ores, then won't the specialty consist of like 99% miners and 1% Random other job (fisherman?)?

Well, the game IS named "minecraft".

[DXWarlock]

Just delete the EE zip file in the mods.

And only spawn buys the ores, whatever shops the players themselves want to make and charge for whatever they sell/buy is up to them be it wool, ore, wood, food, etc.

Say bob sells his ores to spawn (the only place that generates new money). He can spend it at Toms shop for fish...so Tom makes money off fish by selling them to Bob, Then Tom can spend his money he made off fish to Harry that sells wool, Then Harry can pay that to Bob for steaks. Only point of the spawn shop is to get the money into the system. A central point I can control the rate 'new money' is introduced.

Think of it as "the only new money is generated by ores. whatever money is in the system can be spent to whoever and however they want." The spawn would be the "money mint" but once its in circulation, its used just like real money in real life it changes hands for any number of reasons.

Then towny towns cost a daily tax, to take that money back out slowly. as well as 'repair costs' and such.

So technically the miners are the ones making 'replacement money' to replace it but everyone mines, just some more than others. But others can make money however they want from the people that have money, some people keep all their ores, never selling any to spawn and still make just as much money selling items in their personal shops. its been pretty stable so far. been using it for a few years.

[Hayross]

Well, the game IS named "minecraft".

good point, but there is a lot more to minecraft than just mining

[Hayross]

Just delete the EE zip file in the mods.

And only spawn buys the ores, whatever shops the players themselves want to make and charge for whatever they sell/buy is up to them be it wool, ore, wood, food, etc.

Say bob sells his ores to spawn (the only place that generates new money). He can spend it at Toms shop for fish...so Tom makes money off fish by selling them to Bob, Then Tom can spend his money he made off fish to Harry that sells wool, Then Harry can pay that to Bob for steaks. Only point of the spawn shop is to get the money into the system. A central point I can control the rate 'new money' is introduced.

Think of it as "the only new money is generated by ores. whatever money is in the system can be spent to whoever and however they want." The spawn would be the "money mint" but once its in circulation, its used just like real money in real life it changes hands for any number of reasons.

Then towny towns cost a daily tax, to take that money back out slowly. as well as 'repair costs' and such.

So technically the miners are the ones making 'replacement money' to replace it but everyone mines, just some more than others. But others can make money however they want from the people that have money, some people keep all their ores, never selling any to spawn and still make just as much money selling items in their personal shops. its been pretty stable so far. been using it for a few years.

ahhhhh..... thanks but what about other economy destroying items(UUM, Solar panels/arrays, scarcity/specialization, all items are equally fuctionable

[DXWarlock]

UUM. mass fab, scrap boxes, etc I have off also..any item/machine that does any type of "make unlimited item out of nothing while you are AFK/offline" is turned off on ours.

And solar panels i think you lost me. How would they ruin the eco?

[Xylord]

UUM. mass fab, scrap boxes, etc I have off also..any item/machine that does any type of "make unlimited item out of nothing while you are AFK/offline" is turned off on ours.

And solar panels i think you lost me. How would they ruin the eco?

I think he's meaning UUM with solar panel. Without solar panels, UUM is just a way to transform matter/combustible (coal, lava, uranium etc.) into something else. With solar panels, it's a free and infinite source of matter.

[DXWarlock]

OHH yea, why anything like that is disabled.

I see tekkit as a "making things you always did easier" type gameplay myself. Not a "easy way to make endless items"

Anything anyone has on mine was gotten from 'somewhere', you know it had to be mined/crafted/etc. Even if it was with a quarry, and auto routing crafting table setup...the raw materials in it all was gotten, not 'poofed' in.

[Hayross]

I think he's meaning UUM with solar panel. Without solar panels, UUM is just a way to transform matter/combustible (coal, lava, uranium etc.) into something else. With solar panels, it's a free and infinite source of matter.

yes that's exactly what i meant. why would uu matter just appear out of thin air from lots of electricity. and electricity should come from somewhere(i mean like using a fuel source(coal, wood, Oil)) so i think that wind/ watermills are are still out of the question

[Hayross]

I see tekkit as a "making things you always did easier" type gameplay myself. Not a "easy way to make endless items"

but tekkit is full of ways to make endless items out of absolute nothingness.so a quick recap of what we have gone over:

1. EE and economies are absolute opposites

2. UU is a synonym for EE

3. Solar/Water/Wind is Bad

[Xylord]

but tekkit is full of ways to make endless items out of absolute nothingness.so a quick recap of what we have gone over:

1. EE and economies are absolute opposites

2. UU is a synonym for EE

3. Solar/Water/Wind is Bad

I disagree with the third point. If UUM matter is disabled, I think renewable sources of energy are okay, since they need a bit of effort for installation, or have a fairly complicated recipe in the case of solars. I do disable arrays though.

[Hayross]

UUM. mass fab, scrap boxes, etc I have off also..any item/machine that does any type of "make unlimited item out of nothing while you are AFK/offline" is turned off on ours.

And solar panels i think you lost me. How would they ruin the eco?

well scrap boxes are fine, since they are made with actual objects (scrap boxes are made of scrap, scrap is made with recyclers, random materials are needed for the recycler), so in short, they should be fine, also due to the fact that they spit out uselessness usually

wooden tools anyone?

[Hayross]

I disagree with the third point. If UUM matter is disabled, I think renewable sources of energy are okay, since they need a bit of effort for installation, or have a fairly complicated recipe in the case of solars. I do disable arrays though.

well mabye the arrays, but they still create power out of nothing,which, in large quantities, can devastate economies

also due to the fact that solar arrays are just compact versions of solar panels

[Xylord]

well mabye the arrays, but they still create power out of nothing,which, in large quantities, can devastate economies

also due to the fact that solar arrays are just compact versions of solar panels

I don't like arrays because they make no sense to me, however much power you have, if you can't convert it into matter, I don't see the problem. Unless you mean to give a way to sell EU?

[DXWarlock]

well scrap boxes are fine, since they are made with actual objects (scrap boxes are made of scrap, scrap is made with recyclers, random materials are needed for the recycler), so in short, they should be fine, also due to the fact that they spit out uselessness usually

wooden tools anyone?

But they arent, you can make a huge cobble generator, that goes to scrap from like 10 recyclers to a row of auto crafting tables that makes the boxes. that shoots them out of a deployer infront of a filter that sorts good items from jumk..that picks up the items. So endless free items

In 1 day and 100 compact cobblegens, you can get a chest of ores and diamonds

[Xylord]

But they arent, you can make a huge cobble generator, that goes to scrap, that goes to like 10 recyclers to a row of auto crafting tables that makes the boxes. that shoots them out of a deployer infront of a filter that sorts good items from jumk..that picks up the items. So endless free items

That is true. I didn't deactivate that though, I find far too cool the idea of a perfectly random item creator.

[DXWarlock]

You havent seen some of the players I have. ..lol

One did nothing but make a cobble farm that looked like the scene from the matix of the pods, 1/5th of the scrap it made went generators to power the 40 recyclers making the scrap. And 4/5th went to auto table to make scrap boxes that went to a deployer. He was spitting out scrap boxes faster than a timer set to 1/2 a second could spit out the items to sort them.

[Xylord]

You havent seen some of the players I have. ..lol

One did nothing but make a cobble farm that looked like the scene from the matix of the pods, 1/5th of the scrap it made went generators to power the 40 recyclers making the scrap. And 4/5th went to auto table to make scrap boxes that went to a deployer. He was spitting out scrap boxes faster than a timer set to 1/2 a second could spit out the items to sort them.

Welp, it was probably overpowered. But what a legendary stream of randomness it must have been!

Come on, I'm sure there's a diamond under this watermelon... Or this wooden pick? Oh, there got to be some under those steaks!

[DXWarlock]

Haha yea, but he had it organized anything that wasn't 'useful' he had the deployer that was picking them up off the ground to sort, cycling back to the recyclers to make scrap out of them to try for a good item again..lol

So all he had to do was login and check the chests good items got piped to and take it out.

[Hayross]

But they arent, you can make a huge cobble generator, that goes to scrap from like 10 recyclers to a row of auto crafting tables that makes the boxes. that shoots them out of a deployer infront of a filter that sorts good items from jumk..that picks up the items. So endless free items

In 1 day and 100 compact cobblegens, you can get a chest of ores and diamonds

ok, let me rephrase that, "scrap boxes are ok, as long as you ARE'NT CREATING THEM IN QUANTITIES OF 1000 CRYSTAL CHESTS PER SECOND!!!!!!!

btw, that would be friken epic

[Hayross]

but again, kinda off topic again what we've gone over

Bad = EE, UUM, arrays, windmills, watermills, and scrap boxes (in mass quantities)

Good = nothing

god this is hard............

but now we need to discuss 2 of the most major problems. Scarcity and specialization.

with minecraft, all ores are everywhere and plentiful, so ore trading is going to be quite difficult (although that chart was helpful). but i have heard of this one weird mod. ores are very hard to find, although they come in massive scattered veins that take 3-4 days (game) to mine. they are the same kind. and the ores are not always seen, so you have to dig around (like real miners). another is that ores are biome specific, and the nether is banned. iron might only be found in jungle (random example), or glow stone in mushroom biomes. but then there is the fact that biomes are the size of pixels,so thats another problem. and about specialization, that is a problem with solutions that have their own problems. i have heard one solution is some plugin that forces specialties on people (miners can't chop trees, lumberjacks can't mine, etc.) but that can cause people to get really annoyed and want to leave. not bother, and you have BIG problems, people will not bother to trade, opening a successful business has about as much chance as winning the maximum prize on a 1$ scratch ticket. so now what?