Ender I/O with Tekkit Main?

[SemiPr0]

So...how about it? Its free to add with credit given, perms are quite clear and it seems like a far superior method of item and power management over BC pipes...which to be frank are cumbersome and clunky as all hell in comparison.

Tekkit Main has always kind of suffered from a gap based on the lack of IC2, I understand that IC2 is off the table and thats fine but it seems like Ender I/O would nicely fill the gap in regards to the loss of IC2's wiring systems which would potentially get over that early and mid game power generation hump with a cleaner and more effective solution than the BC pipe system.

Redstone Power Conduits are nice but they also require a Magma Crucible and a Liquid Transposer to create them. BC pipes are cheap to make, but very space consuming and clunky and sometimes laggy for servers.

I think Ender I/O would fit more in line with Atomic Energy and Applied Energistics as well given the more streamlined nature of these systems and I'd love to see it in Tekkit Main as an addition at some point.

Also given the fact that Thermal Expansion machinery is more or less the backbone of Tekkit Main industry and its fixed and unalterable speeds require multiple machine lines to produce anywhere near enough hard industry to handle BC quarry input, the simplicity of Ender I/O over BC pipes in this regard would be immensely helpful.

Just my thoughts, I suppose I could just hack it in myself as part of my own personal modpack but I think it could be potentially beneficial to Tekkit Main itself.

[phazeonphoenix]

This horse has been beaten a couple times over. While I am in favor of Ender I/O inside Tekkit it might be deemed as redundant. Tekkit already has ore processing so the SAG mill and the Alloy smelter are redundant and TE's is better IMHO. It's modular power cells are nice but rumor has it there will be tiers of RECs in later versions of TE (if it's not there already). There's a direct duplicate of the Sterling engine only in block form. The ores and powders are already in Tekkit. Yes the conduits are sexy in how they operate but we already have 2 types of conduits/pipes and 1.6.x versions of Galacticraft include a 3rd type of power conduit. Add yet another wrench into the mix. I will say though that the power monitor block is definitely nice.

[SemiPr0]

Well aesthetically you'd have to admit that the Ender I/O conduits definitely look better in a space station or moon base than BC pipes at least. And Tekkit's always been about having options after all. I mean I took a break after reviewing the 1.0.6 build because the only logical power methodology was biofuel, BC engines couldn't hold a candle to it, now we have Atomic Energy which gives...yes, options, now I can step up from engines to biofuel and finally to nuclear reactors or use a mix anywhere in between all of that.

Also E I/O conduits are probably just better in general for item and resource management as far as moving physical items into an Applied Energistics network goes, BC Pipes are just....yeah thats like 2011 called and wants their mod back.

[phazeonphoenix]

Oh I agree on the aesthetics aspect. If EnderIO conduits seal oxygen that would indeed be the ultimate for space application. It might be a bit early to suggest adding this mod though. The version jump from MC 1.5.x to 1.6.x will be a large one for Tekkit. Mods like TE and BC have been reworked and improved and I think they're going away from MJ to a different power standard. The convienience of Tekkit is that all of it's components work together as well as could be expected. A while ago I decided to give the "Business Elite" modpack a whirl since it's 1.6.4. It included Buildcraft, EnderIO and Mekanism and there was a rather blaring problem with interfacing the differing power sources with blocks taking differing power and 3 differing types of conduit. Mekanism machines would drain a MJ power storage source. The other way around was completely bugged and I was getting infinite power or at least a very disproportionate exchange ratio. It's every bit as much about balance and interoperability as throwing every good mod in the mix

[SemiPr0]

Balance and interop are always good, but the biggest problem with Tekkit main is its wild diversion from Tekkits previous mod structures which gave a good system of early/mid/late technical progression.

Tekkit Main..definitely in 1.0.6 and still now in 1.1.10 simply lacks that good hand off from layer to layer of complexity. The jump from using BC pipes to transport power, to RE Conduits is a rather large and expensive jump. Theres no middle of the road variable that bridges the gap between early power generation and management and late game power generation and management solutions. Its all very linear.

IC2 wiring at least gave a good road of power distribution increases that went in line with your increasing technical capabilities, right now power distribution is either low tech....which is literally pushing power through BC pipes...or extremely expensive tech, such as building up to a magma crucible and liquid transposer...simply to make the other method of power distribution which is more efficient and effective for high voltage loads. And to actually just be able to power a magma crucible and liquid transposer the basic power generation required even at the BC level is rather ridiculous because those machines have such a high demand.

I've played Business Elite a bit myself..especially since its the most updated pack and also includes Project Red (god how I've missed Basalt), and I do agree there are some interoperability issues between the various mods in the pack.

But everyones hanging on to Thermal Expansion as if its some kind of unmutable standard. Are the machines better? Sure...but only in an "all around" kind of manner, they're definitely not faster and even the earliest machines are far more expensive to build than their IC2 parallels. The same production load I used to be able to manage with IC2 with two lines of machines requires around six of their TE equivalent machines and the TE equivalent machines cost more to make.

Tekkit Main is good but its not as good as Tekkit in its previous incarnations...its just simply not providing enough stage to stage options to even hold a candle to its earlier incarnations in Technic/Tekkit/Tekkit Lite and its largely because it feels like everythings built around trying to force Tekkit around the MJ standard...which is fine, but maximum interop would mean using mods that have a compatibility between EU and MJ and giving people as many options as possible.

The lack of solar, wind, hydroelectric and thermal energy solutions in Tekkit Main is literally unbelievable, I do realize that Tekkit Main in 1.1.8 did add "a solar panel"....awesome, thats great, one solar panel. And simple energy storage...hey, thanks for the early game battery, except someone doesn't seem to have considered that the MJ draw from a TE pulverizer and TE furnance off a Makeshift Battery is about 3 times as much demand to supply as the comparable solution of the IC2 Batbox/Macerator/Powered Furnace. 10000MJ in a Makeshift Battery as compared to 10000 EU in a Batbox are two very different things.

Lets add in the fact that to meet the speed of IC2's upgradeable equipment, you have to have twice as many machines from TE.

So twice as many machines drawing nearly three times as much early game power, all being powered through inefficient BC pipes that can overload and explode with an option of...this engine, that engine, or this other engine to deal with early game industrial demands.

There are reasons why FTB Unleashed is pulling as much activity as its pulling, and its not specifically because its "better" than Tekkit Main, its because despite of its rather clunky implementation nature, its providing options that Tekkit Main has, for some reason deemed completely unnecessary.

Options are important, being able to build an industrial base that meets your technical needs is what these modpacks are about, Tekkit Main's industrial layers are literally Stone Age straight to Coal Age then to Nuclear Age, its missed a lot of stuff in between, Tekkit Classic used to have that even Tekkit Lite had better technical progression hand off.

So in the end, Tekkit Main doesn't just need Ender I/O, it needs Project Red, it needs Mekanism, it needs Factorization, it needs UE. It needs options that fit the players needs given the players engineering interests, not just a handful of options that are "good enough" to get the job done...which has really been my major issue with Tekkit Main since its release and the issue still stands regardless of them having at least given a small amount of ground on power generation but even that addition is "just enough" to get the job done and no further than that.

Sorry that got a bit long and ranty but after several days of trying to enjoy 1.1.10 because hey..finally at least there is one more power generation method outside of BC engines and MFR biofuel...its still not enough. Tekkit Main is missing so many minor steps in favor of making large technological leaps from one technical stage to the next...its just sad. And its not half as fun as the modpack that literally made modpacks a standard in Minecraft either.

[Norman1346]

To each their own.

I think new tekkit is vastly superior to old tekkit.

New tekkit has a better balance of ores so the earth is not overloaded with stuff.

New tekkit has better recipes so you are not crafting 10 billion wires to make everything.

New tekkit has a way less OP version of equivalent exchange.

I don't see a need for another type of wire either. Power Pipes work fine and are much better than they used to be. Max power pipe is like 1 K MJ and conduit is between 2 and 3 MJ, would a wire that transmits like 1.5 K MJ add anything to the game? I don't think so.

There is something to be said for a many options mode pack. That is indeed what business elite shoots for. In my opinion New Tekkit seems to be more about getting the same functions with balance and simplicity.

[phazeonphoenix]

Realize though that the fact IC2 was dropped was not the modpack compiler's fault. As a modpack and not a single self contained mod, Tekkit is at the mercy of sometimes cantankerous mod developers. A replacement had to be found and during that time when Tekkit was transitioning from MC 1.4.x to 1.5.x the other mods you mentioned weren't as mature and stable as they are now. Once we shift to 1.6.x the same thing could happen again. Fortunately though it seems most of the mods currently in Tekkit are still being updated or has been made to work with 1.6.x so it might not be as large of a loss.

I agree with Norman that overall Tekkit Main is more balanced than Tekkit Lite was, but I also agree that the unintentional side effect was we lost a lot of the middle tiers of things we had before. I'd agree that Mekanism and most of the UE compatible mods would be a good addition, especially since we've got a couple already. The counterpoint I know someone will bring up is that we have Voltz for the UE mods but why can't it be in both? It seems to me that Tekkit and Voltz cover many of the same areas, the primary difference being the power system it's designed around. Let's have a TekVoltz pack!