mojang logo, quite slow

[kattzkitti]

is there a way i can optimize the loading time during the mojang logo (at startup) to make it faster? i'm assuming that's just because of sheer size of these mods, but i figured i'd ask all the same. i'm sure this isn't the first thread ever about this, but a quick search yielded no relevant results.

[EvilOwl]

Go to ForgeModLoader-client-0.log to see what's loading in this time and how long does it take.

FML has to unpack and check all the mods and their dependencies twice to start the actual game.

 

Edit: I wonder what will java and FML do when the jars are compressed with the 'no compression' option like your zipping some folder and select the lowest compression setting. This will certainly get lower CPU readouts with FML loading mods but more actual disk reads.... This needs a test.

Edited August 22, 2014 by bochen415

[Curunir]

You can check memory allocation. It defaults to 1 GiB, and Tekkit should run on that. If the allocation is higher, start time will be considerably longer, at least that is my experience. Of course, if you found that 1 GiB was not enough because of resource packs or added mods, then you need to find the lowest value that will still guarantee a stable game.

 

Not using resource packs, or only using lightweight ones, is another thing you could look into. >Faithful X32 is quite lean.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Curunir

[EvilOwl]

The best solution for this that I know is a SSD drive.

[kattzkitti]

@Curunir- one would think with higher allocation of memory, the performance would increase. i can't fathom a reason why it would be the reverse, it makes zero logical sense. i don't use textures, as nothing beats the classic minecraft look imo.

 

@bochen415- a SSD is far beyond my financial means to obtain. not to mention that last i checked, they break down much faster than HDDs.

[EvilOwl]

Yes I agree. The prices are too high. I bought recently the smallest model for testing purposes. Not for the entire OS, just for some of the stuff. Works great.

[Calvin54]

SSD last longer than HDDs. No mechanical parts = longer life. Prices are decreasing and are at a considerable point but size/gb is not spectacular.
Maybe some more ram if you do not have enough?(Hardware)

Edited August 22, 2014 by Calvin54

[EvilOwl]

SSD last longer than HDDs. No mechanical parts = longer life. Prices are decreasing and are at a considerable point but size/gb is not spectacular.

 

This is in theory only. Every single SSD drive I've seen in work/home/at friends has been repaired by the manufacturer at least once and it lead to data loss. I'm talking here about the SandForce controllers.

[kattzkitti]

Maybe some more ram if you do not have enough?(Hardware)

i have 12 GB of RAM installed. i also am running an i5 quad core @3.2ghz, so that shouldn't be an issue either. i feel like the game isn't making full use of the hardware i have.

[Curunir]

Allocating too much RAM (and all the housekeeping tasks involved in this) can waste quite some time, depending on software architecture. Java is not the most efficient of architectures, to put it politely.

Once all relevant data for an application are loaded into RAM, you cannot speed up anything by giving more RAM to the application. The only scenario where that used to be true was on systems with insufficient RAM, where the pagefile (Windows) or swap partition (Unix) had to be used. Managing RAM, the OS would put rarely-used bits of application data onto the hard disk, which in turn caused long waiting times when that data needed to be fetched. But when all relevant data fit into regular RAM, this should not occur.

At best, allocating too much RAM does nothing. At worst, it will slow you down and even cause quirks.

 

I concur on the use of SSDs. While they of course are still more expensive than spindle drives for sheer storage, SSD prices have gone down a lot recently. I can get a good 120 GiB model around here für 60€, which is not bad, considering they used to be 300€ not too long ago. Still, some cannot afford this, so it's only an option if you can. As for 120 GiB not being enough: It should suffice for Windows 7 (~20 GiB + pagefile), the necessary drivers and programs, and still have ~60-70 GiB of space for your favourite games.

 

The reason you're thinking the game isn't making full use of your powerful hardware: It's running on Java.

It's really that simple.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Curunir

[EvilOwl]

It's 3am here and I just had an idea. Need to check tommorow for this. What's the bottleneck when FML loads mods? CPU or HDD? The HDD led on the PC/laptop has the answer. The task manager should help also. I need to sleep.....

[kattzkitti]

Allocating too much RAM (and all the housekeeping tasks involved in this) can waste quite some time, depending on software architecture. Java is not the most efficient of architectures, to put it politely.

Once all relevant data for an application are loaded into RAM, you cannot speed up anything by giving more RAM to the application. The only scenario where that used to be true was on systems with insufficient RAM, where the pagefile (Windows) or swap partition (Unix) had to be used. Managing RAM, the OS would put rarely-used bits of application data onto the hard disk, which in turn caused long waiting times when that data needed to be fetched. But when all relevant data fit into regular RAM, this should not occur.

At best, allocating too much RAM does nothing. At worst, it will slow you down and even cause quirks.

this was enlightening, thanks for taking the time to write all that out. so your before-mentioned 1GB of RAM is all i should bother with? i don't use any texture packs or extra mods, just default tekkit.

 

 

The reason you're thinking the game isn't making full use of your powerful hardware: It's running on Java.

It's really that simple.

so nothing to be done about it?

Edited August 23, 2014 by kattzkitti

[Curunir]

That SSD would help. Fetching files for initial load should be considerably faster with that, although I cannot say how much influence it will have on overall load time. Maybe bochen will find some pointers, he is the scientific type. ;-)

Other than that, higher-clocked RAM would increase system bandwidth. An even faster processor, or overclocking the current one if possible, would add crunching power. But nothing would really dramatically reduce that load time, just shave off a few seconds maybe.

 

Java is a high-level language, designed to make it (relatively) easy for people to write code and then deploy that code across all kinds of platforms. It surely has its merits, but it was probably never meant to write large games in it, and even what we have is quite an achievement on Mojang's side. With all those mods adding data and more logic to the game, large modpacks like Tekkit simply have long loading times. Also, this:

FML has to unpack and check all the mods and their dependencies twice to start the actual game.

The most effective remedy would probably be if the developer could somehow reduce that to a single check. There certainly is a reason this is done, so don't get your hopes up too high.

 

An aside about the SSD debate: SSDs do have values for maximum cell life that look dangerously low, hence many consider them to be short-lived. But they are not. Even when cells die, the SSD controller will simply deactivate them and assign spares. When it runs out of spares, storage space will slowly shrink. Effectively, most SSDs will outlive their usefulness before shrinking storage from dead cells becomes a measurable thing. We are talking 5+ years, or even more.

Of course, SSDs have gained a reputation for low life expectancy for another reason: Dying controllers. This has nothing to do with cell life, but rather with bad implementation of certain Sandforce chips. Even among Sandforce SSDs with the very same controller, some have high failure rates and others hardly ever fail. I am using several Sandforce SSDs in my machines, and have yet to see the first one die. With OCZ crashed and burned, the main source of bad SSDs is gone anyway. I think they are mature now for general use.

[kattzkitti]

you guys are really making me wish i had the financial means to actually obtain a reasonable SSD... maybe i could just grab one of the smallest ones and slave it, using it specifically for things like minecraft? something to think about at least.

 

as for better CPU, 100% outside my means. the only time i upgrade my CPU is when i buy a new comp, and that's just because the upgrade happens as part of the purchase. i also stick to the i5 family, as the price increase for i7 doesn't justify the performance increase i would get for my purposes (low to mid-range gaming, with some minor image/video creation work). i'm already using the best RAM available, so beyond just adding more gigs there's not much to do there.

 

at the end of the day that loading time isn't terrible (~20-30 seconds?) so i can of course just live with it. just would be nice if it wasn't a thing, you know?

 

as a sidenote- i've always wondered why people complain about not having enough RAM for this or that. it costs next to nothing, and lasts pretty much forever. you can salvage it between computers, and even a layman can do it because of how simple it installs (probably the easiest piece of hardware to work with). you can also sell any lesser RAM your new rig comes with on the cheap, getting a few bucks back in your pocket for free.

 

oh also i hope i'm not coming across as ungrateful or anything. i sincerely appreciate you guys taking the time to help me, but that probably isn't apparent because the way i use words is really bad and it often causes misinterpretation of my intent.

Edited August 23, 2014 by kattzkitti

[Curunir]

I was not suggesting that you upgrade these parts, just pointing out that these are the ones that could give minor gains. Funnily enough, a Core i7 would not even help, because those just have Hyperthreading enabled over the i5, i.e. a native 4-core is a logical 8-core. Which will not help one bit in gaming, just in heavily-parallel applications. Believe it or not, I am gaming on an i3 dualcore, and missing nothing. Some games profit from four cores by now, but most don't, and Minecraft/Tekkit is among those who don't. Clock speeds and caches count, and an i3 has plenty of those.

 

If you want to accelerate your machine, an SSD is the single most useful investment. For maximum effect, transfer your OS and programs onto it, and those select few games where you value loading times. You could of course simply use it as another drive and only install games/programs, but this will lessen the effect somewhat.

As I said, a 120GB model should suffice, and those are relatively affordable now.

[EvilOwl]

RAMdisk is a good solution also. This needs regular backups and some tricks.

Edited August 23, 2014 by bochen415

[Calvin54]

I heard AMD has some RAMDisk software but I am not sure if they are any good right now. Crucial SSDs MX100 are pretty affordable the last time I checked (also in my build). Haven't had any problems despite restarting it like 3 times/day while starting to boot up for the first few weeks. (old GPU didn't support Win8) 
Sidenote: OCZ is back under Toshiba. They supposedly gained some Toshiba tech to improve their line of SSDs. Not sure if it changes anything though?

Edited August 24, 2014 by Calvin54

[Curunir]

OCZ is dead. Toshiba picked up some of the pieces, and somebody surely has the brand rights. But the company that flooded the market with bad SSDs is gone.

As for RAM disks: Usually not worth the effort. Any half-decent software maps memory as needed these days.

[Calvin54]

They should have a way to delete posts... 

Edited August 24, 2014 by Calvin54