Add Allow villages to spawn option

[g19]

Well I know you removed village spawning to avoid corruption in the world but you forgot that many exclusive thing spawn in those villages like those tinkers patterns... Please add that option 

[Kalbintion]

Villages still exist in this modpack, however a lot more rare and will be harder to find. They exist in vanilla based biomes.

[tufkal]

Villages still exist in this modpack, however a lot more rare and will be harder to find. They exist in vanilla based biomes.

 

Incorrect, in the current version (1.0.12a) they are completed disabled, except for 1 obscure BOP biome that I think was meant to be turned off too (see config/biomesoplenty/terraingen.cfg, the changes are simple).  Essentially every biome is turned off, including vanilla biomes.  Please check your facts before you answer user's questions incorrectly..

 

Going further to the user's question, if you are looking for the Tinkers' Tool Shop buildings for the Cutlass guard, you need to make another config file change, as they have been specifically turned off on top of turning the villages off (to do this you need to edit config/TinkersWorkshop.txt).  Go to the very bottom of that file, and look for ""Add Village Generation"=false"

 

I understand the admins of the mod believe both of these changes were necessary to stop a crash during chunk generation of villages, but I haven't seen any problems on either of my servers running 1.0.12a, and have generated many villages with Necromancy and Tinkers special buildings in tact.  My maps are freshly made under 1.0.12a though, so it may be a conversion bug.  

Edited July 15, 2014 by tufkal

[Kalbintion]

Incorrect, in the current version (1.0.12a) they are completed disabled, except for 1 obscure BOP biome that I think was meant to be turned off too (see config/biomesoplenty/terraingen.cfg, the changes are simple).  Essentially every biome is turned off, including vanilla biomes.  Please check your facts before you answer user's questions incorrectly..

 

Perhaps you should do some empirical testing before jumping to conclusions from a config file.

 

World Seed: -1033241624

Potential Spawn Locations:

-220, -670

-380, -290

235, 541

639, 1393

 

These locations were gathered from a fresh 1.0.12a world generated on superflat using the default superflat settings. Those locations are not guaranteed to show up in a non-superflat world but are actual locations where ones can appear. This information is by no means extensive or exhaustive and there are plenty of potential other locations where villages may spawn.

[tufkal]

Perhaps you should do some empirical testing before jumping to conclusions from a config file.

 

World Seed: -1033241624

Potential Spawn Locations:

-220, -670

-380, -290

235, 541

639, 1393

 

These locations were gathered from a fresh 1.0.12a world generated on superflat using the default superflat settings. Those locations are not guaranteed to show up in a non-superflat world but are actual locations where ones can appear. This information is by no means extensive or exhaustive and there are plenty of potential other locations where villages may spawn.

 

Again, incorrect.  By creating a world with the Superflat 'World Type' setting, the game bypasses Biomes O Plenty (and it's config files) altogether.  You will get villages sure, because you aren't making a proper world for AOTB.  The settings "Default" and "Biomes O Plenty" both will generate their terrain using BOP, and follow the config file rules above, resulting in the problem.  In a 2000x2000 world, you will have 0 villages.  This was tested by me by hand (flying around in creative) a week ago when I made 2 fresh new server instances and ran into the problem myself. 

Edited July 15, 2014 by tufkal

[Loader]

That's not right - this setting;

B:"Add Biomes To Default World"=true

Causes BoP generation to occur on all worlds, not just default and BiomesOP.  It's a limitation in minecraft that means this even needs to be in at all (it's a workaround, without it you'd need to generate the world, delete the chunks and then allow it to generate with BoP loaded).  It's not picky about whether it's BiomesOP (though with that option off, it will only be possible to use the settings in BiomesOP), default or superflat.  I know that's not what it seems like it should be doing from the wording of it, but check the code and see for yourself.

 

2000x2000 also isn't nearly far enough to guarantee finding a village on a even normal BoP map, though a lot of people do get lucky and find one or two by then. http://biomesoplenty.wikia.com/wiki/FAQs (it's a known complaint, something they're working on and there's even people in the comments on that page complaining that they've found 1 or 2 villages only - remember that's even with all BoP biome village spawning on - it's less common than that here).

[Kalbintion]

Thanks for the assist Loader, I wanted to include that information in the first response post but figured why bother wasting time including information that many won't be able to prove for themselves due to the lack of being able to read and understand code. Hence my empirical testing counter-argument route.

[tufkal]

That's not right - this setting;

B:"Add Biomes To Default World"=true

Causes BoP generation to occur on all worlds, not just default and BiomesOP.  It's a limitation in minecraft that means this even needs to be in at all (it's a workaround, without it you'd need to generate the world, delete the chunks and then allow it to generate with BoP loaded).  It's not picky about whether it's BiomesOP (though with that option off, it will only be possible to use the settings in BiomesOP), default or superflat.  I know that's not what it seems like it should be doing from the wording of it, but check the code and see for yourself.

 

2000x2000 also isn't nearly far enough to guarantee finding a village on a even normal BoP map, though a lot of people do get lucky and find one or two by then. http://biomesoplenty.wikia.com/wiki/FAQs (it's a known complaint, something they're working on and there's even people in the comments on that page complaining that they've found 1 or 2 villages only - remember that's even with all BoP biome village spawning on - it's less common than that here).

 

Unfortunately this isn't correct either.  I am familiar with that option Loader, and it does make the BoP terrain generation apply to the all world types including 'Default' and 'Large Biomes' ,but not Superflat.  If you load up a superflat world you will notice a few things;

-It is always the same biome (Plains)

-There are no BOP plants and/or grass, as BOP's terrain generation is config file and profile based, not injected

-There are grass/flower items generated from other mods that inject terrain generation regardless of configuration (lazy)

...basically because they coded it the right way, it doesn't just inject itself into each world as it is created like for example, Food Plus.  It is smarter than that, and it does not affect the SuperFlat terrain generation process.

 

Superflat uses it's own unique method based on the 3 block types you choose for your land makeup, and is generated using a method all it's own outside of the normal routine (this is why BoP chooses not to touch it).  As I said in my previous post, using superflat will give you villages because it does not use BoP as part of it's terrain generation routine, and is an inaccurate way to make comparisons for problem solving BoP terrain generation.

 

In real world test (not superflat), the BoP terrain generation settings from the config file hold true, and are the problem.  They are simply all (but 1) turned off by default.  Today I generated a 2000x2000 area with the default settings from unzip, and found 0 villages.  I then deleted the region files, and made the adjustments to the config files I mentioned above.  The map was physically identical, and I found 5 villages in the first 20 minutes of flying where there were not villages previously (MapWriter comes in handy here).

 

So, in the end we are back to where we started.  The OP correctly identified that for default created worlds, village generation (and further, TC building generation) have been turned off in this modpack intentionally in the config files.  I pointed out to him the two places he needs to go to undo this.  

 

My question is why this was done.  The issue tracker lists this issue as 'Cant Fix'.  Does anyone have any better information about why they made these config file changes to specifically prevent this from happening, and why the devs believe it 'cant be fixed'?  As I eluded to before, it may be a problem with maps generated on an older version of AOTB that upgraded to this version, as I haven't been able to reproduce the crash problem when the a map was generated by 1.0.12a. 

Edited July 15, 2014 by tufkal

[Loader]

There's a lot of sweeping statements there, so I need you to clarify a few things for me;

 

-There are grass/flower items generated from other mods that inject terrain generation regardless of configuration (lazy)

...basically because they coded it the right way, it doesn't just inject itself into each world as it is created like for example, Food Plus.  It is smarter than that, and it does not affect the SuperFlat terrain generation process.

This is simply a matter of the code - I might have missed it, but show me where BoP either ignores superflat or specifically only runs on Default and BiomesOP settings.  You're calling out the coding ability of PowerCrystals (MFR), Emoniph (Witchery), mDiyo (Tinkers Construct), Sirolf/AtomicStryker (Necromancy) and JoseTheCrafter (Food Plus).  I'm not in total disagreement about all of these, but any complaints I'd have about the coding in them I'd point to specific things rather than just calling them lazy in general.

 

Obviously that's a hell of an accusation there, so I expect you to be able to at least read the code well enough to show me where BoP did it the 'right way'.

 

 

Unfortunately this isn't correct either.  I am familiar with that option Loader, and it does make the BoP terrain generation apply to the all world types including 'Default' and 'Large Biomes' ,but not Superflat.  If you load up a superflat world you will notice a few things;

-It is always the same biome (Plains)

-There are no BOP plants and/or grass, as BOP's terrain generation is config file and profile based, not injected

You sure that's not the BoP overridden vanilla plains biome?  Place some bonemeal and tell me if you get BoP flowers spawning.

 

 

Superflat uses it's own unique method based on the 3 block types you choose for your land makeup, and is generated using a method all it's own outside of the normal routine (this is why BoP chooses not to touch it).  As I said in my previous post, using superflat will give you villages because it does not use BoP as part of it's terrain generation routine, and is an inaccurate way to make comparisons for problem solving BoP terrain generation.

I'm pretty sure this isn't correct - last I looked the superflat routines ran after everything else (which leads to certain things being super-common, like MFR libraries when given multiple chances to spawn in a chunk and some things being rare, like TC blacksmiths, it just depends on how they're coded as to whether they get extra 'spawn in chunk' chances or extra 'already spawned in chunk' flags).  I vaguely remember that there might be a second village generation pass for some superflat worlds.. if that's the case it could explain what we're all seeing here but that's got nothing to do with what you're saying.

 

 

My question is why this was done.  The issue tracker lists this issue as 'Cant Fix'.  Does anyone have any better information about why they made these config file changes to specifically prevent this from happening, and why the devs believe it 'cant be fixed'?  As I eluded to before, it may be a problem with maps generated on an older version of AOTB that upgraded to this version, as I haven't been able to reproduce the crash problem when the a map was generated by 1.0.12a. 

It's listed as "Can't Fix" because it's not something anyone here can fix.  It might not be something anyone can fix individually, and it's certainly not something that's likely to be fixed.  In order to fix it, BoP would have to have some kind of worldgen API that mods would use so that BoP could do village generation at its usual early point in worldgen - that would require a major rewrite of BoP (not likely) for minecraft 1.6.4 (super not likely) and all mod authors to be willing to make their mods require BoP (just no), have two versions of the mod or some kind of switching ability depending on what else is there - a bit of a rewrite to a major rewrite for those mods again on 1.6.4 (super not likely) assuming you could get all those mod authors to work together on it (no way in hell - this, perhaps unexpectedly, would be the hardest part of all).

 

There are hundreds of examples of this problem happening (dozens just here), and even a medium sized server (40-80 players) would be lucky to last a week with all the biome village generation turned on like you're suggesting.  It's great that you haven't been able to reproduce it, but people played for months on singleplayer before having any problem.  You're just simply not generating enough terrain to expect to run into this problem any time soon.

 

The vanilla biomes being set to village generation=false may be an oversight, or it may be intentional (they're still BoP versions after all), that I'm not sure about.  What I am sure about is that you can't just use the config files as pure evidence, go see if B:Exo-Armor-Craftable=false is set in TinkersConstruct.txt and then see if you can actually craft it in game, for example.

 

Does that clear anything up?

[XSwiftX]

I have 3 backed up wrecked worlds due to the corruption bug. I know from firsthand experiance exactly why they opted to disable village spawning. I was already disabling village spawning in versions before 1.0.12a.

Edited July 16, 2014 by XSwiftX

[Loader]

You were unusually unlucky, Swift, but you're right about disabling it in versions before 1.0.12a, I don't think BoP has changed at all in the last few versions at least (1.0.9 maybe?  It did feel like it got a lot worse with the Necromancy updates in 1.0.11 and 11a to me but I can't say that with any degree of certainty).

[XSwiftX]

Yeah just my luck to be so unlucky 

 

I did not have any issues in earlier versions of AOTB. I think it was 1.0.10a when I fist encountered the corruption but managed to get past it using MCEdit. 1.0.11 and 11a was when I started to repeatedly run into the bug before reading some where about disabling village spawning. Have had zero issue since though there are no cutless on my server at the moment as no one has found a village yet.  lol

 

I did try removing the necromancy mod in 11a and still ran into a corruption issue so it may not be an issue with just necromancy and more of a compatibility with BOP and the various mods trying to spawn in various items.

Edited July 17, 2014 by XSwiftX

[Kalbintion]

It's listed as "Can't Fix" because it's not something anyone here can fix.  It might not be something anyone can fix individually, and it's certainly not something that's likely to be fixed.  In order to fix it, BoP would have to have some kind of worldgen API that mods would use so that BoP could do village generation at its usual early point in worldgen - that would require a major rewrite of BoP (not likely) for minecraft 1.6.4 (super not likely) and all mod authors to be willing to make their mods require BoP (just no), have two versions of the mod or some kind of switching ability depending on what else is there - a bit of a rewrite to a major rewrite for those mods again on 1.6.4 (super not likely) assuming you could get all those mod authors to work together on it (no way in hell - this, perhaps unexpectedly, would be the hardest part of all).

 

Another option to that would be BoP adds a catch that if something goes wrong with generating a structure it just simply skips it completely and doesnt generate it, it would prevent this issue from showing up even if it does remove some buildings sometimes. And imo, wouldnt be too hard to implement.

[Loader]

It's not exactly BoP, BoP picks the place for a village and moves it if it can't spawn properly.  The bit I'm unclear on is whether the other mods looking to attach to that point in the village now get a null pointer, and that's the end of it, or they do successfully move the village with BoP but then spawn in an impossible location.

[Kalbintion]

Perhaps we should look into this a bit more deeply then? I still feel like BoP can correct this on their side.

[XSwiftX]

Perhaps we should look into this a bit more deeply then? I still feel like BoP can correct this on their side.

I thought they had already pretty much said they were not supporting the 1.6.4 version anymore?

[Kalbintion]

Them not supporting it doesnt mean someone like me or Loader cannot go in and do a fix, even if they say no.