Is this setup correct? (Energy Cell, Conduits)

[DanielUSA]

 

 

 

 

Is my energy cell receiving more energy now because of my set up?

 

I have it attached to a lava fabricator, if I were to attach 3 energy cell outputs to 3 lava fabricator inputs would the fabricator accept more energy?

[Kalbintion]

Depends on how TE works with conduits. The cell has a max input of 2k, if I'm not mistaken, that limitation limits the input, regardless of the sides, to 2k RF/t, meaning it wouldn't be acquiring more power at once. The Conduits have a max of 10k RF/t, which means that setup could push out 6k RF/t (2k RF/t from the three sides connect) since it doesn't get limited by the conduit. If you're wondering if you're exploiting some sort of potential bug, answer is no, you will not be magically creating power with that particular setup, it will just have three locations to input to. I could be wrong as I'm going from my experiences.

[DanielUSA]

I don't think I am exploiting a bug.

 

I want to make sure I am producing the maximum amount of energy possible with the current set up.

[Kalbintion]

Those three dynamos only produce 3*80RF/t, or 240RF/t, this is far much lower than the limit of power through a single redstone energy conduit. You would need another 122 (125 total) dynamos producing power to get 10k RF/t with what you have right now. 8k RF/t would be wasted tho due to the redstone energy cell limited to the 2k in/out. For the maximum 2k RF/t based on the cell, you would need another 22 dynamos (25 in total). I would need a more specific question at this point if this still doesn't answer you.

[Loader]

All TE stuff is limited by connection now, Kalbintion - you can get 6k in and 6k out of a redstone cell by having 3 connections to input and output faces on a single cell. (The easiest way to see this is to set up a few cells in creative all filled to max, have one feed another empty one by one conduit and a second one feeding by say, 5 all joining into 1, then splitting back to 5 to connect at the other end)

 

Daniel, you're miles off hitting any limits with that setup.  If you're ever in doubt, check the dynamos themselves - if they start storing power internally then that means they can't get rid of it fast enough (passing it out to an energy cell or whatever) which might mean your energy cells are all full (which is fine, other than the steam dynamo nothing is wasted).  You're only hitting limits when the energy cells are emptying and the dynamos still aren't - that would mean they're generating power faster than the energy cells can take it (so there's a bottleneck somewhere in the system).

[Targren]

All TE stuff is limited by connection now, Kalbintion - you can get 6k in and 6k out of a redstone cell by having 3 connections to input and output faces on a single cell. (The easiest way to see this is to set up a few cells in creative all filled to max, have one feed another empty one by one conduit and a second one feeding by say, 5 all joining into 1, then splitting back to 5 to connect at the other end)

 

I wasn't able to reproduce this. I used hardened conduits just to make sure that it wasn't the cell limit I was bumping into, but both resonant cells in the image charged at about the same rate (the one with only 1 connection actually got a few RF more) when I turned the lever on. 

 

Nevermind. I can't read in the middle of the night at critically low coffee levels.    Second picture works as described.

 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2014 by Targren

[Loader]

You're limited in that picture by the one connection to the creative cell - it has a max output of 10K RF, so both cells will get that.  Add a couple more so it matches the resonant cell you're sending to.

 

Like this;

[DanielUSA]

Ok you see how Loader's picture is from an energy cell?

 

Well how do translate that to work with dynamos instead?

 

Do I run all dynamos to one conduit then split it into 3 and wrap the energy cell? (let's make believe it is a resonant energy cell)

 

Or do I run a set up of 3 dynamos to a cell (like my picture) and then that cell with 3 outputs to a central conduit; which all my other dynamos with the same setup (as my picture) attach to and use the central conduit as my power source?

[Kalbintion]

Daniel, what you're trying to do is what I already described before. If you use redstone energy conduits, you will be limited to 125 dynamos on that one line. If you did something similar to what Targren shows in the pictures where he used microblocks to seperate the lines, you can then bypass this limitation as you now have two lines running up to 10k RF/t, which means a limit of 250 dynamos...if you are not capping out the conduit to start however, there isn't any reason to try doing this.

[Loader]

You don't need parallel lines, just multiple connections - it won't bottleneck on the actual throughput even on leadstone so far as I've tested.  Just build it with one and split it at the end later if you need to (or to begin with so you can build around it).

[Kalbintion]

Loader, can we do some actual testing on this together (or code reading)? I've always read that it was 10k RF/t per connection on like 99% of wikis but could never get more than 10k RF/t throughput regardless of what I tried. I'm not sure if my setup is incorrect to achieve that from what I've read forever, everywhere, but cannot get it myself.

[DanielUSA]

I will make a video or take some pictures of what I am trying to relate.

[Loader]

Did you try the design my post just above, Kalbintion? 

If it's not working I'd love to take a look some time and see if we can figure it out - oddities are always interesting  I don't think TE is opensourced, is it?

 

Daniel, unless you have over 125 dynamos you don't even need to worry about this if you have a resonant cell and redstone conduits - if you have a redstone energy cell then you won't be limited until you have over 25 dynamos, with hardened you can take 5 max and with leadstone you'll be limited to just 1 per connection.

[Kalbintion]

Open source or not, I can always make it "open source"...This would be for personal use anyway, even if we went that route. And I'll give that design a try and see what I can see. Do you use the meter btw from TE to see the conduits throughput or just look at the RF increasing?

[Kalbintion]

Do not quote this post if you are making a response! It is too large and will simply spam the page.

 

 

After testing Loader's design using a multi-power-output system of the creative cell, it appears that conduits will take more than 10k RF/t if it can saturate the conduit fast enough, meaning if the conduits saturation is at 100%, as long as it has outputs to go to, it will output the max the machines can handle. Meaning if you have output spots for 60k RF/t, but are only inputting 10k RF/t, it will fail to saturate the network fast enough to handle the 60k RF/t, but if you have 60k RF/t input and 60k RF/t output, it'll keep up with saturating the network just fine. This said and done though, it does appear to be limited to 10k RF/t per connection, assuming the machine can handle 10k RF/t inputs or has the room to accept it.

 

 

Edit: tested with dynamos too using leadstone conduits, since they should work under the same principal. They do seem to work as expected from the results of the above, however, as soon as i hit 4 connections using a leadstone conduit with 4 dynamos, and 4 connections on a resonant cell, it appears the network was able to be kept saturated with only three of the dynamos and the fourth was wasting power and storing it internally since it was unable to saturate the cable, even though the theoretical output to the one cell was 320 RF/t, just like the input from the dynamos was 320 RF/t...not sure what this means exactly, but it is interesting.

 

Edit 2: Also another thing to note with the dynamo test, the resonant cell for the 3 dynamos and 4 dynamos are actually charging at the exact same rate and are at the same value once the dynamos are turned off, suggesting there's a saturation limitation that is being hit rather than a I/O limit being hit. This is further enforced by the TE Meter showing 100% saturation from both the 3 dynamo and 4 dynamo setup even. This also seems to imply that the redstone energy conduits have a higher saturation value than the leadstone, and I would assume the hardened have something between leadstone and redstone conduits saturation values.

 

Edit 3: One more thing: The results with the dynamo with leadstone does seem to lead to indicate you could theoretically have more than 125 dynamos (10k RF/t) on one redstone energy conduit as long as you have multiple inputs to cells or other locations that will handle it. Suggesting a theoretical max of 60k RF/t (750 dynamos) per PAB (Power accepting block), assuming all six sides of a PAB were used to input power.

 

Edit 4: ...I wonder if ill hit edit 10 by the time im done editing this post XD.... - I wonder what the limitation of this means then. Could you theoretically have multiple resonant energy cells loaded up on 5 of the 6 sides, with 125 dynamos each side (625 dynamos per cell)? And if so, is there a hard limitation to this? Assuming of course you could provide the necessary requirements to all of these dynamos simultaneously and without failure (which in of itself requires a mass amount of power to produce whats necessary to run the dynamos in the first place....a known trade-off with any non-glitch power system)

 

Edit 5: I'm presently setting up a 625 dynamo power system to go to 5 sides of a resonant energy cell to see what happens. Also going to make smaller variants (500 dynamo, 375 dynamo, and 250 dynamo) to compare to, as well as the default 125 dynamo (baseline 10k RF/t) - my tests will use creative tanks to pump LXP and Water to Compression Dynamos, I'll break one of the creative tanks before introducing the second liquid so it won't continuously run and will report back what happened in the end....also if anyone wants a schematic of this to use with MCEdit, let me know lol.

 

Edit 6: Still have some set-up to do but figured I'd post an image of the various sizes layouts as it stands atm...its 125 dynamos per row btw.

 

 

Edit 7: Ended up hitting a limitation of the fluiducts not being able to transfer the liquids to the dynamos evenly and at once, horrendously invalidated the test. Also decided to record the testing process so it will be available once testing is done and uploaded to youtube. I need to re-work the fluid dispersal system however before I am able to ensure this system will work all together.

 

Edit 8: The information from Edit 2 about the 3 and 4 dynamos charging at the same rate was a user error on my part, the bottom of the resonants by default are set to output (whos bright idea was it to default it this way...) so my 4-connection setup was actually outputting power on the bottom of the cell which caused the issue. Also, finished recording the video of the power setups per the image from edit 6, rendering and will be uploading to youtube. In the end: It appears that even that many dynamos running at once will have no issues with the system on a single conduit line and I came to a conclusion of conduits are very similar to capacitors - they accept power and will discharge it as soon as it has a location to go to, at a more-or-less equalizer type principal.

 

Edit 9: Thinking about the practical uses of such larger setups of 40k RF/t and more, and there isn't many that come to mind. There's very few things that would actually be able to handle such power inputs or the need for them. Those two things being the Laser Drill and Chunk Loader (which by default in this modpack doesnt do much, would need to edit the forgechunkloading config to permit it to do more) - So unless you want to make a stupidly fast cell charging station at 50k RF/t (one face left open so you can see progress and crescent it), theres very limited practical applications of >30k RF/t setups. @ Exactly 30k RF/t, you can have three of the six sides of a cell set to receive the power, and the other three sides set to output the power, essentially creating a single cell that has a I/O of 30k RF/t even tho the resonant has a maximum of 10k RF/t...this is an interesting bypass of the limitation from having a single connection and would be useful for setups that have a very very large machine array for doing various things, could also be very useful for powering laser drills and chunk loaders with a cell buffer. And finally at <30k RF/t, you shouldn't have any issues with sides being a limitation on the I/O, while it would be lower than equilibrium amount or on the extreme end, I don't foresee many people needing this type of setup of >125 dynamos to produce this amount of power without very specific purpose in mind.

 

Edit 10: Got 1.5ish hours left on rendering, maybe a bit less (doing other things so CPU/GPU isnt dedicated to rendering atm...) but itll take at least another hour to upload to youtube as well, so expect it to be available in 3 hours or so on this post. I'll make another edit (and probably the final one) to this post with the video once it is uploaded and available.

 

Edit 11: I thought about what I learned from all of this a bit more, since the rate numbers are limits on the connection points and not the throughput of power, doesn't this mean that a redstone energy conduit connection point takes in 10k RF/t, meaning one connection of that could be used directly on the output of a Big Reactors system that produces 10k RF/t...and that one connection would be resposible for 10k RF/t? I believe it does, I believe it does. It also means if a dynamo was able to produce 10k RF/t on its own, that it wouldnt have any issues doing that with redstone energy conduits, however that same 10k RF/t dynamo would only be able to get out 80 RF/t on leadstone, since again those limits on the connection point itself.

 

Edit 12: Here's the video.

 

Edited July 17, 2014 by Kalbintion

[Loader]

Haha   And you gave me crap about my drill edit - now you understand!

 

I'm not running into a hard cap using leadstone in my testing - a single conduit running through the centre of 25 dynamos going out to 5 energy cells (connecting to each one 5 times) doesn't seem to be limited in any way, even though the meter has been showing 100% saturation since the third dynamo.  I'm definitely not getting a limit like you are on just 3 dynamos when using it.

 

EDIT: The TE saturation meter seems to be giving me funny readings - it's reading correctly now (96% if I remove a dynamo).  Here was the setup;

 

EDIT 2: Looks like saturation is being reported on the connections themselves (inputs to the network vs. outputs to the network).  I think the oddity I was getting was from putting the inputs down first, putting the outputs down first or removing the inputs after it's set up gave me the expected results (that makes complete sense if it's by connection and not by throughput though).

Edited July 16, 2014 by Loader

[Kalbintion]

See Edit #8 of that post, Loader. It was a user error issue related to the default I/O of resonants when placed that wasnt corrected.

[Loader]

Ah right, I missed that bit somehow.

[DanielUSA]

For some reason when I use the multimeter it displays a 0 or 20. On my redstone furnace it displays 40!

 

I saw it in action in a tutorial on Youtube and I decided I needed one to keep my energy in check but it never functioned correctly.

 

After looking at the set ups I still have a different set up that I will record or upload pictures from. I got the World Edit and MCEdit mods but I never did install them. xD

 

 

 

@Kalbintion- Let's say you ran that set up to a tesseract. Would the tesseract need inputs from all sides? And if we put 6 inputs on a tesseract then had one tesseract with one output, would the one output output at the same rate as the input?

 

And if this is true then would we be able to use a tesseract to connect "gaps" between to energy sources and not lose any power.

 

For example: Loader's first picture where it shows 3 outputs to one conduit and then it flares to 3 inputs. If we place tesseracts (Initially making the connections wireless) between the output and input would it render our energy pointless?

[Loader]

Clever question, I hadn't thought of that.  I just tested it though and it does behave the same way - the one link to the tesseract bottlenecks things on the input, but interestingly it doesn't seem to limit it on the output.  There's not a lot of gain and a fair bit of risk, I'll need to run it through some proper testing but it definitely seems that way right now.

 

The TE multimeter has two modes, input rate check and network saturation.

• Network saturation is checked by using it on a conduit with no connections, it reports what percentage of input (from all sources such as dynamos and cells) are getting stored in viable outputs (like machines and cells).  So long as it's under 100% the conduits aren't limiting you, you've got enough outputs to handle everything you're trying to input.
• Input rate check lets you know how fast energy is going into what you're checking, per tick.  Use it on a connection on something like a redstone furnace and you'll see how much it's using up (the redstone furnace only uses 20RF/t, there must be something else that also uses 20RF/t on that same connection if you're getting a reading of 40)

[Kalbintion]

 

 

@Kalbintion- Let's say you ran that set up to a tesseract. Would the tesseract need inputs from all sides? And if we put 6 inputs on a tesseract then had one tesseract with one output, would the one output output at the same rate as the input?

 

And if this is true then would we be able to use a tesseract to connect "gaps" between to energy sources and not lose any power.

 

For example: Loader's first picture where it shows 3 outputs to one conduit and then it flares to 3 inputs. If we place tesseracts (Initially making the connections wireless) between the output and input would it render our energy pointless?

 

This would work for tesseracts aswell, however Tesseracts, according to wiki sources etc, can only transmit 10k RF/t, so i'm not sure this particular setup would work as intended as the tesseracts may be limited in a different way than the conduits running from them. In particular though, under the assumption of tesseracts not being limited in transmit rates but rather at the power in/out rates, then your proposed 60k RF/t going in would still be limited to 10k RF/t since you only have one connection on the output. If you were to add the other 5 connections, for the total of 6, it would transmit all 60k RF/t assuming the tesseracts indicate the power has somewhere to go, as tesseracts won't transmit without knowing it has a place to go (this was done to prevent some lag and backups and other issues that could arise from tessearcts)

[DanielUSA]

@Kalbintion

 

I just watched your video and you have solved my problem. Great Job!

 

Do you still have those dynamos set up? You should check and see if we can transfer over 60k RF/t (Well 50k RF/t because you only did 5 input connections) through a tesseract. This set up would give us the max input output possible right? So we would be hitting TE maxes here?!

Edited July 17, 2014 by DanielUSA

[Kalbintion]

Ran the test with the tesseract, it will send 10k RF/t per connection, and the receiving needs the connections, so @ 50k RF/t through one tesseract needs 5 connections on both the input and output tesseracts.

 

Edit: Oh and one more note about the conduits, since they have a network saturation value, this max saturation value increases with the more conduits available, which can appear to give false results when running tests as they can provide a temporary boost in power output as the network readjusts to added conduits.

 

 

Edit 2: After additional fiddling around with it, the input tesseract only needs the additional connections, the output tesseract does not seem to be limited on the power being output through a single connection point. Meaning one connection to the tesseract seems to output up to 2 billion RF/t (a technical limitation) if the input is available

 

Edit 3: I have a companion video being rendered that demonstrates the tesseract.

 

Edit 4: Here's the video, its still uploading but will be available in about 2.5 hrs from the time of this edit.

 

Edited July 17, 2014 by Kalbintion

[DanielUSA]

OMG...Do I dare say we can have infinite power? By creating tesseract energy "loops"?

[Kalbintion]

No, because that isn't how it works. The power is equalized throughout the network, and will only discharge if it has a place to go to. Meaning while this would effectively create an infinite loop, you do not gain any power at all from this method, but rather the tesseracts would be changing power from one place to another infinitely up until both networks on either side of the tesseracts are equalized or no longer need power.