freakachu
-
Posts
2757 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
3
Posts posted by freakachu
-
-
Take a look at this user and pay attention, Thanks for simply answering my question!
gonna pile on here and burst your smarty-pants bubble x2. as neowulf stated, somnia simulates the world while your character sleeps. in a bed. in the game. it's possible because 10 minutes is a lot less ticks to simulate than almost 600k. depending on your machine, it can take anywhere from 15-30 seconds to a few minutes every time you sleep the night away. again, this is the in-game night and in-game sleeping. not real life.
-
Finally and I know again this may be me misreading somehow but there is no mention of Kakermix turning them down, if anything it reads like the opposite is true. The post says
'The best part was I responded to the offer (after talking with Duncan a few times over the phone) with 'dramatic increase in what is being offered'. The response was 'we cant afford that' and thats where the talking stopped. From how I read that, it feels like Curse ended the negotiations and not Kakermix. Again if I have either misread this then I apologise but I can only go off the information in the post.
you, sir, have no idea how business negotiations work. an offer is made, and then counter offers are made until a deal is reached or one of the parties walks out. how you can interpret that post as "lol I just want $$$$$" is beyond me. you have ZERO legs to stand on when it comes to pointing fingers about taking money or not turning it down. you have taken that money, and accepted this same company's deal while kaker has not done either of these. I suggest you shut your gob on the matter of money, the taking thereof, and the morality or ethics of it for the rest of your life. your hypocrisy is astounding.
edit: in case you think I'm talking out my ass, this comes as someone who has owned a business for a number of years now. far longer than since last october.
-
putting this up here because it's hilarious
I saw this and quite literally could not believe what I was reading. I knew about this but for him to come out and straight up admit that he literally turned them down on the basis of they were not offering enough money is shocking to me.
I can say that FTB has not sold its name and we still completely control the content of our packs, which it appears technic were asked for. I can also say that the financial arrangements that we made with Curse were almost the last thing we negotiated. The vast majority of of the time we have spent talking has been about the tools and services we want to be able to offer. Making sure that we were all on the same page as far as ensuring that were going to be able to provide people with a good service.
this is slowpoke on the FTB reddit thread discussing this whole thing. he's referring to the fact that curse came to kaker first and kaker would not play ball. he told them they would have to significantly increase their offer and bring his whole team with him if they wanted their offer to be considered. they noped the fuck out and hit up FTB instead. we're seeing the result of that now.
kaker discussing the buyout offer:
only you could think it was possible to spin someone not taking money as being horrible and wrong as opposed to yourself who did. I think I'll just end this with another post in that same reddit thread that pretty much sums it up:
good luck with your deal, slow. don't say no one told you so when you get the shaft and everything you worked to create falls apart before your eyes though.
-
Look im not show boating and im not trying to boast about FPS on a simple game like minecraft, it was a quick slap up post to see if it could work and im not here for the technical bullshit or trolling.
then your answer is no, it's not possible.
-
Then Slowpoke's statement that you can use other launchers with it too would make very little sense. There's got to be an API or something.
I don't know the WoW EULA, but I think and hope Curse have more sense than certain individual modders when it comes to complying with Minecraft's EULA. Demanding that you watch an ad as condition for downloading, there's no way that's not charging money for it, let alone "making money from it in any way".
I don't hold out much hope for the quality of 3rd party launcher support.
as far as the ads thing, I think you're a little confused. I'm not talking interstitial ads or something like what adf.ly does. just banner ads and such. regardless, this is what the controversy over WoWMatrix hinged on, the fact that it crawled curse's pages for download links and didn't display their ads because of it. which is why I brought it up in relation to the idea of a bot that crawled curseforge to find download links.
-
Acutally, because of the conisistency of curseforge, you could actually just write a web page robot to get the download link to any mod on there.
this would get you in hot water with the curse guys pretty fast. see the aforementioned WoWMatrix debacle. curse doesn't take kindly to people bypassing their ads.
-
I may be in a minority for wanting to customize, but I'm still here. There's still a ton of us, including primary school age kids who've just seen a cool mod spotlight on youtube.
There needs to be a place where you can go for quick and automatic install of any mod, and if Curse the BeastForge achieves it I'm all for it. But I don't think they should waste hosting on modders who attempt to restrict use in modpacks - once this distribution mechanism is in place, a modpack will be little more than a list of mods, and you can't refuse people to list your mod.
the trick is that in order for this to be effective, the new curseforge would have to be THE place for mods to be. it hinges heavily on being able to have a large and varied selection available. that will be a challenge as even missing a handful of major/popular mods will severely limit usefulness/adoption. there's a critical mass that will need to be reached and frankly I don't think it will. curse has a reputation and it's not a good one. that alone will be a major obstacle.
-
I would say your own technic platform disproves that. 2554 pages of modpacks with 10 packs a page, I think theres quite a few people interested in making packs customised for their own individual needs.
the number of packs on the platform may be large, but the number of people who are playing them is far greater*. there's a hell of a lot more people interested in just playing than there are interested in creating their own pack. additionally, those that are already have a place to do so with what sounds like less restrictions. there's a reason I keep saying "the average user". you know as well as I do that the average user of your launcher or our launcher doesn't know the first thing about putting mods together and doesn't care, they just want to play FTB or hexxit or whatever. those are the people you should be worried about selling this to, those are the people who will make or break you, and those are the people you are not doing anything for.
additionally: "Mod developers will be able to assign flags such as only allowing use in certain modpacks, or being completely open." that kills it right there for many would-be pack makers. the tool is useless if I can't put the mods I want in my pack. the platform came into being in response to people who just wanted to make cool packs and let people play them easily. if you're gonna allow arbitrary restrictions like that then you are planning an inferior product from the start.
so I say again, there is nothing in this of value for the average modded minecraft player. at best it's no different than what they have now, at worst it's a major inconvenience. nothing you have said inspires confidence in me that this won't be the case. even though I'm "on the other side" as it were, I'm not interested in watching you guys shoot yourselves in the foot.
*if you want to get an idea of just how much greater, there are now stats displayed on each pack's platform page. take a look at the top rated ones. multiple thousands of installs per day each, 3-8k players/day each. and that doesn't include any of the official technic packs.
-
no actually the point I was trying to make is I could sit here talking all day, but they are just words. I was saying judge it on its end result. But ok its not like its a secret as to what the vision is. It doesnt really apply to the packs we build, thats all fine and good. This is more aimed at the third party stuff. Lets look at the FTB way of doing things at the moment. Its over restrictive and a bit of a hurdle to get a pack on the FTB launcher. The main issue being we vet every pack and they have to be distributed from our repo. This is mainly a security concern but it creates huge restrictions. It also mean we have to manually check each pack for permissions. The platform way of doing it is the polar opposite if you like, its almost like it completely unrestricted. That means that people can put almost anything into a modpack and Technic distribute it. Again not what I would call a perfect method.
With the upcoming FTB launcher we hoped to introduce a new automated system that would allow you to log onto our website, select the mods you want from a list of pre-approved mods that we had collated and the pack would be constructed automatically from this list. You then upload your configs (the universal config would help with this process) upload any mod that was specific to your pack (if appropriate) and this get added onto our launcher automatically. Its goal was to remove a lot of the restrictions that are currently there. It would also make the process of updating packs much easier.
The new vision is essentially the same, however we wouldn't use our mod pack as a list we would be able to give people access to the entire curseforge library to build and update packs from. Everything we want to achieve, we could do. However Curse can do it better.
alright, that's the vision. why is this great for me? why do I care when I can already grab a modpack and just go? what's the value to the average user? the only slight improvement is that you would be hosting everything, instead of it being hosted elsewhere. it doesn't stop people from uploading other people's mods, malware, etc. which makes it functionally identical to the platform at that point?
for the cost of advertising and whatever other bullshit curse throws into the launcher, the average user gains a list of mods they are most likely going to ignore because they are looking for FTB or whatever pack anyway? well, color me impressed.
-
The question that should be asked is 'What do I get out of this' You are completely right in that, but ask it at the right time when there is a way for you to get an answer.
are you one of these?
because it looks like you used one to answer that most important of questions. there is no value proposition here for me, or anyone else that isn't you, curse, lex, FTB, or forge. are you really signing a contract with no idea why anyone will want to actually USE this service?
how is that having a vision? where is this vision? lay it on me. what do I get out of this?
-
Lots of really good questions here, its good to come back to this site to get a decent synopsis of potential issues and problems. I am going to go through and answer as many as I can over the next 20 minutes for you all.
this should be good. tell me, slow, how does this make anything better for the users? I really want to know. give me the most utopian pie in the sky dream scenario possible.
-
Source?
here: http://www.reddit.com/r/feedthebeast/comments/1uu9xh/slowpokes_q_and_a_for_the_curse_partnership/
sounds like they are starting out with one foot firmly on a banana peel if this is the case. same old shit, just fancier clothes.
edit: read the whole summary there. hahaha how can you say "Curse is also not allowed to profit off the downloading of the mods." and then go on to say that curse is going to be running ads, but you can totally opt out. opt out how, by buying curse premium? I hope they got that shit in writing and signed because if not, they're both fucking idiots of the highest caliber.
-
20 FPS? i run it at 1000 ;P
I can hit that too, while looking at a corner underground.
assuming you are running a more recent pack, like tekkit or hexxit, type /tps into the chat box in game and hit enter. it should show you how many milliseconds an average tick is taking. anything over 50ms means the game is lagging. let's do an example for science then, shall we? let's assume you're running lean and mean with your modpack, your ticks per second is a solid 20 and the actual time needed to complete a tick is 15ms.
since each second has 20 ticks, and each hour has 3600 seconds, each hour has 72,000 ticks. that means for 8 hours of simulation you need to run 576,000 ticks.
if each tick actually takes 15ms to run, you will need 8,640,000ms to simulate 8 hours. let's turn that into a more reasonable number, shall we? that's 8,640 seconds or 144 minutes. 2 hours and 24 minutes. that is the "instant" you would need in a conservative case. that is why it doesn't work that way and won't.
-
Well there are a few things you should consider:
1. Lex already had offers to sell Forge, why should he sell it now and why should anybody even want to buy it. You can simply create a fork and use it. However since Forge is OpenSource now there is no way that you can keep anybody from continuing the project.
it's possible still. I don't think it's likely in all honestly though. my point is not that it's totally going to happen, my point is that it could easily happen because everyone has a number, essentially. so, likely? no but don't discount the possibility in the future. you never know what could happen.
2. FTB doesn't need Forge. They have good hosting abilities. What they lack is manpower and money to hire people. They would simply need a lot of time to establish what curse already has, which also means they could still do it, but would need more time. FTB can go back to the current state at any given point.lol wut? FTB needs forge because FTB's mods all run on forge, not because of hosting. also FTB has no lack of manpower, their team is easily twice the size of technic's. sometimes it really is all in how you use it.
Also a lot of mods, exspecially smaller ones already use Curse for hosting. Larger mods normally have there own sites to get the mods and normally don't use the forum at all.most mods are hosted placed like mediafire and dropbox. curseforge is not as popular as you seem to think. does it have mods hosted there? yes. does it have tons of them? no.
Also even if the curse-launcher sucks... you don't really need it. Just create your instance with it and run it by other means afterwards.hate to break this to you, but that process still used their launcher. i.e. you would need it.
Curse also has nothing to lose. They already host the mods... why not set up a system to allows for easier installation. It costs them nothing, they propably want to do it anyway, however they would have to advertise and create their own modpacks, now they possibly get names like Mindcrack or Dire in there.they host some mods. a very small small subset of mods. this whole deal is because they want more of them and more traffic. more mods means more traffic means more ad views/click means money for curse. you're right that they're not risking much though by doing this.
Actually curse can lose a lot more than FTB. Curse is a company. They make money with that. FTB doesn't. If slow wants money he can simply stream running a donation mob and wait for people to kill him with Nitro-Creepers and Withers by donating. The FTB-people aren't dependend on the success of this, so they basically have nothing to lose. And actually if it goes bad and they do end it from their side people will propably blame curse and applaud them for cutting the ties if necessary.hate to burst your bubble again, but as of october last year, FTB is a company too. this is a low risk move for curse. at the cost of a couple salaries and some increased hosting/hardware expenses they might gain a large increase in ad revenue. however this is a high risk move for FTB. if this goes south, they lose their userbase until the only ones left are the True Believers, which are not a large number of people. it's hard to make lots of money off a handful of people buying your stuff/looking at your ads/ donating to kill you on stream. this could literally make or break FTB as a pack and/or brand for the foreseeable future. even if they cut it off the damage will have been done. the same cannot be said of curse. curse will continue regardless of the outcome of this deal.
Curse on the other hand would greatly benefit from the popularity modpacks have. If people use their launcher to run modpacks they will win. This however means that they actually have to put some effort into improving it, something that can't be bad. Actually just for minecraft their launcher will get Linux/Mac-Support and FTB already said that they won't switch before that happened.yes, the goal is to get more people to use curse's stuff and by extension see their ads. that doesn't mean a lot of effort will be put into improving the launcher. that means that it's likely something resembling a launcher may appear that runs on linux/mac and has a curse logo + ads all over it. don't get your hopes up.
Honestly for people using modpacks not much will change. They will have propably more modpacks avaible and it will be easier to customize them... however it will propably be at the price of ads in the launcher. The greatest benefit actually is for the modders. Right now they get nothing at all from downloads via modpacks. The system curse uses actually allows them to make money without the stupidity that is adfly. And well I can't complain about curse-adds. If you see a bad add you can report it and it is gone in seconds... can't really say that about adfly.here's where I'm going to completely derail your hype train on this. the whole reason that this is a bad idea is that it sucks for the end user. the mod consumer, the average minecraft player, will most likely have a lesser experience now because of this. if you want some backing to that, look at the current curse client and see how that operates. downloads are artificially limited in speed (did you know some MC mods are over or around 50 megs in size?), inability to queue up more than 2 downloads at a time, stupid ads delivered through an IE widget, etc.. for some games, that's actually a great setup. for instance, it works pretty well for WoW UI mods, but those are usually very small in terms of size and WoW was built to support them from the get-go so there aren't as many wacky interactions between them (still happens sometimes but it's rare).
the thing is MC modding already has great launchers. for instance, the technic launcher or even the current FTB launcher. technic's launcher is free of ads, already supports windows/linux/mac, supports custom mod packs through the platform in an easy to use fashion (for the end user) and allows for great control over packs for creators through solder. do you honestly believe curse would allow technic's launcher to use their system on equal footing with their own launcher? I don't give two shits about what slow has said on the subject, this new launcher would have to beat out technic's in terms of functionality, ease of use, and performance all while the entire system the new launcher uses would be available to both launchers. it will never happen. being able to play FTB packs won't be enough motivation when there's the ability to play packs that are the same if not better through other launchers that aren't nearly as crappy.
additionally, if other launchers remain popular or even gain users as the flee FTB, now curse is hosting a bunch of stuff for free for other people, AND paying mod authors (apparently?) without making any money on the deal. that is not a winning proposition and it won't be allowed to continue for long if it ever occurs. edit: for proof of this, look up a program called "WoWMatrix" and the drama surrounding it that happened a few years ago. it was pulling mods from curse, and allowing downloads without people seeing the ads. curse blocked it from accessing the site just as a new expansion launched for WoW and curse launched their client. there was much crying, wailing, and gnashing of teeth. oh and btw WoWMatrix was actually a better mod updater/installer than the curse client has ever been.
the fact is that the entire post linked in the OP contains almost no info on why it's a good move for you, the user. it is entirely full of why it's a good move for slow, the FTB brand/company, lexmanos, and forge. none of those people/things are you. the parts that aren't that are simply a list of "how it be" and the changes or lack thereof that will be made as a result of this move that is totes awesome for slowpoke and the gang. that means that a) the focus is not on what's good for the community or the end user and
it's most likely missing that stuff because it's just not a good deal for you.they are making grand promises and some people with active imaginations are taking those grand designs and blowing them up to epic proportions that even slowpoke never implied.
the question that should be asked is, "what do I get out of this?" and the answer so far is "more ads" basically. that's not a win for you. that is a bad deal, regardless of how open sourced anything remains.
-
I guess they could try and convince Lexmanos that closing the source is a good idea, but they'd have a hard time convincing him. Lots of the value that forge has is because it is open source.
you might be surprised how much sway a fistful of dollars has over a lot of people. I know that response sounds super cynical but this shit happens to good things/people with the best of intentions on the regular. as great as Lex is, he doesn't strike me as being particularly savvy in a business sense
edit: this is why I said the devil is in the details in my first post. those details that they haven't talked about are absoutely what will make or break this whole deal.
-
While yes, those who pay you generally have some influence over you, I disagree with you on this.
then you have far more faith in human nature than I do. time will tell, I suppose.
-
FTB becoming a company, and FTB partnering with Curse are two completely different things.
Slowpoke isn't making money off of the mod developers, or even the mod pack developers. Any money he's making from the FTB name is rightfully his to keep. Feed the Beast is a map he created. That creation turned into more, but that name is still his.
I think the issue is less the legality or "correctness" of what's going on and more the appearance of how "correct" it seems. plus the fact is that when someone is paying you money, they have influence over you to some degree.
far be it from me to say people should not make money or profits, but I think there's more spin than a gyroscope going on here with respect to this "partnership" and what it will really end up resulting in.
-
the thing is, in a perfect world where nothing goes wrong and there's no ulterior motives or straight up incompetence/misunderstandings a central system would be great.
a one stop shop for all your modding needs that has no problems, easy to navigate, fast downloads, used by everyone, API access for 3rd party launchers that is just as good as using the official site's launcher, and many useful features besides. it sounds like a great vision, but the problem is that it is just that: a vision. it is not reality.
call me a jaded, cynical pessimist if you want, but I am not buying this grandiose utopian vision they're putting out there for this thing until I see it.
-
SXScarecrow had it right. FTB is partnering with Curse. Curse isn't buying FTB.
in my experience, the difference between "partnering" and "buying" is really only how direct you can be with giving orders unless the 2 entities are fairly equal. from what I can see FTB brings one thing to the table for curse: eyeballs. they have a reasonably large following that can be convinced to look at ads. curse is bringing hosting, marketing, developer resources, and who knows what else. this is not a situation where the power is relatively equal. FTB needs curse, but not the other way around and curse absolutely knows this. if anyone thinks that will not be used to curse's advantage and potentially the detriment of end users, think again. FTB is not in a position to bargain in any real way. curse will say what is needed to mollify slow and Co. so that there isn't an immediate upheaval and exodus from the community (because that is what they want, the ad views). once they either have secured dominance in the modding "market" or have failed horribly to make enough return on investment, things will suddenly not be so peachy and FTB will end up like the dude who thought he had a deal with darth vader.
not that curse is some evil group of devils incarnate, but this is just the realities of business. it's a dog eat dog world out there and I don't think FTB is prepared to eat any dogs.
-
the devil is in the details when it comes to this kind of thing. they can say "oh we're TOTALLY independent!" now, but how true is that going to be months down the line? curse is not going to want to throw money at this thing with no return for very long. make no mistake, this will be costly for them. I'm not sure if either group thought through just how much bandwidth and server resources will be required for something like this if it releases to even moderate success. the curse launcher, if it's anything like the current client they offer will most likely be ad supported if not hobbled by the same curse premium junk the current client has. just because you can't download more than 2 mods at once doesn't mean they're "limiting people from downloading mods".
additionally, if the new launcher is either a) just an updated curse client with MC support or
a new launcher with ads there is no way that any 3rd party launcher will be allowed to use their service with the same level of quality as their 1st party app. absolutely no way.I've been around long enough to know how this kind of thing usually goes down, and it's not pretty. while I hope for the best, I am prepared for the worst.
-
also, if you're after movement speed, look into modular power suits.
-
the point i was trying to make was its alot more work to have to police the ads provided by a service on top of already moderating a forum etc... The whole point to using the service is to be able to simply choose your flavors and let it run. Adsense "should" according to their TOS for creating an ad to send thru them has to be malware free and submit to a scan as such in order to be distributed etc... This same scan is mentioned on the site when you setup a usage of their service as well. They are the ones supposed to do the dirty work of keeping the ads malware free.
lothos, look at your response. now, look at cheap's response. regardless of how easy or hard it is to remove misleading ads, which do you think makes the author look like a reasonable person with good intent and a desire to do something about the completely legitimate concern brought up by the OP?
I'll give you a hint: it's not yours. leaping to conclusions and calling people idiots for not doing the same doesn't really make for a solid argument. obviously it's not as easy as it sounds to avoid ads like this. nowhere in this thread other than your posts has anyone said anything about forcing the admins to spend tons of time policing ads. you, yourself, are leaping to that conclusion as the only obvious solution to the issue and then branding it obviously dumb and therefor the problem isn't a problem, also the people bringing it up are, by association, blithering idiots. that isn't sound logic.
the fact is, it's obviously a concern as cheap has stated. in addition to that, they do try to cut down on them as best they can. let me highlight a part of that last sentence before you make another logical olympic long jump: AS BEST THEY CAN. that does not imply perfection. that does not imply 24/7 coverage. that does not imply 100% satisfactory results. that does not imply undue burden on their time.
in closing, calm. your. tits.
-
you're missing the point that given the volunteer staff that already moderate the site, now you want more work devoted to moderating every single ad that appears on the site.
put your pitchfork and torch away, he's pointing out a legit issue in a respectful way. nobody wants ads like these making downloading the launcher harder than it needs to be. fact is that there are things the admin staff can do and it's been brought to their attention so that they are able to do so.
-
client will absolutely never need more than 2-2.5G in almost any situation. servers can and do use more because they are keeping a lot more in memory than the clients. platform is not relevant in terms of memory allocation
it's most likely missing that stuff because it's just not a good deal for you.
Will you guys quit breaking the platform?
in Platform Pagoda
Posted
this is not even close to the place for this kind of issue. try the bug board of the pack you're trying to use.