EU not transferring over long distances (without any EU dissipation)

[WinryAsa]

Title: EU not transferring over long distances (without any EU dissipation)

Version: 3.0.3/3.0.4

OS: Windows 7

Java Version: 64 bit

Description of Problem:

EU are not transferring between EU storage boxes wired together over long distances unless a player is nearby.

Steps to reproduce:

1. Put HV solar panels outputting EU in a MFSU storage box

2. Connect the MFSU box to 7 x ( 39 glass fiber cable -> MFSU box ) in a straight line until it reaches ~280 block long.

3. Standing at the opposite end of the HV solar panel, EU will not be transferred.

If a player move from the solar panel to the other end, some EU packets will be transferred while the player is standing near the MFSU/cables

Is there any workaround for this bug?

Error Messages:

Error Log:

[Jay?]

Are you experiencing this in more than one server? you may be on a junky server, and your packets are disappearing when crossing a chunk line.

[WinryAsa]

I run the server on the same PC locally

[Jay?]

Yeah, well go try it in a real server. It's quite possible that your machine just isn't up to running a server. Nobody else seems to be having this problem, so the likelihood of a "fix" is pretty slim.

[WinryAsa]

Well, the server uses only 10% of my CPU (Core 2 quad CPU) and only 1.4 GB of ram (out of the 8 GB available). I seriously doubt the server overrun and skip any calculation in any manner.

It is interesting to say that there is no overrun messages displayed in the server console either.

No EU is transferred while the game client is not open and no player is nearby. So the client performance hit on the CPU isn't the problem here.

I'll try on single player next.

[Jay?]

Okay, did you see the bit where i gave you advice? please follow it. I'm almost certain the problem is on your end.

[WinryAsa]

Alright, test should be done on a controlled environment. I have no control over a "real server". so Bad advice

Good advice would be to try it in single player or a fresh new server

Which I did and both worked fine.

So I guess the issue has to do with something else in the world.

I'll have to test a bit more.

I'm not expecting anyone to fix the issue. I'm expecting to hear what people have to say about this and if they experienced something similar and found any workaround.

Go try it on a "real server" is not helping anyone here.

Also, stay professional and constructive please.

[Xylord]

Alright, test should be done on a controlled environment. I have no control over a "real server". so Bad advice

Good advice would be to try it in single player or a fresh new server

Which I did and both worked fine.

So I guess the issue has to do with something else in the world.

I'll have to test a bit more.

I'm not expecting anyone to fix the issue. I'm expecting to hear what people have to say about this and if they experienced something similar and found any workaround.

Go try it on a "real server" is not helping anyone here.

Also, stay professional and constructive please.

... I really can't help but warn you that you're talking to a mod. It's for your own good that I'm saying this. Good luck.

[Jay?]

No, it's NOT bad advice. Starting a fresh server on the same machine that's giving you a problem now is dumb, and doing it in single player is twice as dumb because it cuts out half of what needs to happen. Go on a real server and test it, i can guarantee that the problem is with YOUR machine.

[Wendo]

Do you have chunk loaders/world anchors keeping the entire path loaded? Unless all the chunks are kept loaded you'll see exactly what you explain. The easier solution is to put more solar panels where you actually need them, or convert to BC power and teleport it using teleport pipes before converting it back to EU

[mnn]

Well, the server uses only 10% of my CPU (Core 2 quad CPU) and only 1.4 GB of ram (out of the 8 GB available). I seriously doubt the server overrun and skip any calculation in any manner.

Go on a real server and test it, i can guarantee that the problem is with YOUR machine.

I study IT but I fail to see how "real server" would differ from his current machine - it's not choked (if so he'd saw a lot of warnings in console), so what do you think is its problem? (I'm just curious because it doesn't make any sense to me..)

[Sp0nge]

Ur trying to pull wires over 17 chunks? Standar a server has a viewdistance of 10 chunks, all outside that gets unloaded. If the chunks isnt loaded, well, theres ur issue. Unlike SSP (been a while since i played SSP so that might have changed), in SMP chunks unload when not in sight.

[WinryAsa]

I made the same test on a fresh server only this time I went far from spawn and the issue was happening.

So chunks that are far from spawn aren't loaded/updated if no players are standing by. As Wendo and Sp0nge said.

Do you have chunk loaders/world anchors keeping the entire path loaded?

BOOM, fixed. World anchors is the solution. Thanks a lot!

All the machines and MFSUs are within reasonable distance to the spawn region except my solar power plant. It's just sad that it fail silently.

The weird thing is that I ran a redstone wire along the ~280 block of cables/MFSU with a sequencer at the solar panel end. Standing at the opposite side, the EU was not passing but the redstone signal was.

It is fair to assume redstone signal handling needs the chunks loaded to work... but I might be wrong. Maybe it is handled separately.

On a side note, only as a pure rhetorical exercise:

Running my world on a "real server" would not have helped me in any way as it would have shown the exact same behavior.

Going on a already established tekkit "real server" I do not own would have been the same as well as being impractical.

I'm not going to state the obvious here even though all the atoms in my body wish to... So I'm just going to say this:

I can excuse the lack of experience/knowledge. But good tech support also means not being rude to people. Calling people dumb is the last thing to do, especially from a mod.

I personaly run a forum and if one of my mod would do this I would fire him the second I see such behavior. It's simply unacceptable.

Ban me if you will I don't care, that would only prove one point which is obvious too.

Also you know, free speech and everything.

So thanks again to Wendo and Sp0nge for the insights and solution

Also thanks mnn for backing my point

You guys are awesome!

[Jay?]

I made the same test on a fresh server only this time I went far from spawn and the issue was happening.

So chunks that are far from spawn aren't loaded/updated if no players are standing by. As Wendo and Sp0nge said.

BOOM, fixed. World anchors is the solution. Thanks a lot!

All the machines and MFSUs are within reasonable distance to the spawn region except my solar power plant. It's just sad that it fail silently.

The weird thing is that I ran a redstone wire along the ~280 block of cables/MFSU with a sequencer at the solar panel end. Standing at the opposite side, the EU was not passing but the redstone signal was.

It is fair to assume redstone signal handling needs the chunks loaded to work... but I might be wrong. Maybe it is handled separately.

On a side note, only as a pure rhetorical exercise:

Running my world on a "real server" would not have helped me in any way as it would have shown the exact same behavior.

Going on a already established tekkit "real server" I do not own would have been the same as well as being impractical.

I'm not going to state the obvious here even though all the atoms in my body wish to... So I'm just going to say this:

I can excuse the lack of experience/knowledge. But good tech support also means not being rude to people. Calling people dumb is the last thing to do, especially from a mod.

I personaly run a forum and if one of my mod would do this I would fire him the second I see such behavior. It's simply unacceptable.

Ban me if you will I don't care, that would only prove one point which is obvious too.

Also you know, free speech and everything.

So thanks again to Wendo and Sp0nge for the insights and solution

Also thanks mnn to back my point

You guys are awesome!

Why are you such an astounding idiot? I gave you advice, which you refused to take, and then you're complaining that my tech support (which is not what we do here) is bad? Do you really not understand the diagnostic value of checking a behavior on a system besides the one that isn't displaying the intended behavior?

Also, if you don't want to be called dumb (which i didn't actually do before now), this isn't the forum to say dumb shit in. Maybe you should have read the forum just a bit before coming in here.

[WinryAsa]

lolwat

You are right, I shouldn't have come to the Tekkit forum bug board to file in a bug about Tekkit and get technical support. My mistake.

Don't you realize that once we have established that a bug happens in certain circumstances and is not happening in other circumstances on the same machine, testing it on another machine does not give any useful information. Learn how to debug.

You based your hypothesis on the single fact that my machine was too crappy to run a "real server". I invalidated your hypothesis by observing that the server is not overrunning in any apparent way.

i can guarantee that the problem is with YOUR machine.

Guess what! It's not!

You base this conclusion on your previously established hypothesis that I actually invalidated. And what happen next. I prove you that your conclusion is wrong. Why is that? because your hypothesis is wrong. My computer is perfectly fit to run a Tekkit server.

You can't deny the fact that if I had followed your advice, I would have only lost my time.

All that isn't a big deal anyway. As I said I'm not mad because you gave out a bad advice, I'm mad because you were unjustifiably rude. That is all.

[Gizmo]

I just read the thread and I'll have to agree with WinryAsa.

Jay? should have firstly noticed the amount of blocks/distance it was about and have suggested the chunkloader/anchor. which was pretty obvious.

And starting a new server on a different machine should have no impact on the issues when the OS/Java is the same and the cpu/ram is MORE than enough. the server runs on java so any software related bug is permanent, no matter what hardware you run it on. if he'd asked you to try it on linux would've been another matter. (different os means another compiled edition of java etc etc)

then it boggled me when he said "no one else is having this problem".

did he actually try to reproduce it? did he have others make it? did he just assume cause you're the first one asking about something like this that it obviously didn't happen to someone else that perhaps just didn't have the energy to go register on the forums to get some help but rather went around it another way, like for example making the cable shorter and putting the solars closer?

I don't mean to angry the mods, I have however observed on this forum a lack of quality in support, which is understandable as there is alot of threads showing up, alot of people needing help, some of them way too simple to feel the need to answer, and ofc work on new versions of tekkit.

perhaps Jay? needs a break?

[Jay?]

Guess what! It's not!

You base this conclusion on your previously established hypothesis that I actually invalidated. And what happen next. I prove you that your conclusion is wrong. Why is that? because your hypothesis is wrong. My computer is perfectly fit to run a Tekkit server.

You can't deny the fact that if I had followed your advice, I would have only lost my time.

Actually, if you had followed my advice we could have gotten on with it and figured out the problem. INSTEAD, you decided that i was telling you to do things just to waste your time, and the best option was to argue about it instead.

All that isn't a big deal anyway. As I said I'm not mad because you gave out a bad advice, I'm mad because you were unjustifiably rude. That is all.

Again. If this is coming as a surprise to you, you don't belong here.

You are right, I shouldn't have come to the Tekkit forum bug board to file in a bug about Tekkit and get technical support. My mistake.

I was referring to the attitude. You're on the right board, but if you had done some research about your problem before making a bug report, you wouldnt have needed a bug report.

You based your hypothesis on the single fact that my machine was too crappy to run a "real server". I invalidated your hypothesis by observing that the server is not overrunning in any apparent way.

You're partially right. I also based my hypothesis on the fact that anyone submitting a bug report should have looked into the basic mechanics they were working with in the first place.

I don't mean to angry the mods, I have however observed on this forum a lack of quality in support

We don't work for you guys, we aren't the tech support, we are forum support. We're here to force users to work properly, not make the game work properly.

then it boggled me when he said "no one else is having this problem".

This thread was posted several weeks after the most recent tekkit update. If this was a problem that people were having, we would've had numerous complaints on day one.

[WinryAsa]

You are right, I shouldn't have come to the Tekkit forum bug board to file in a bug about Tekkit and get technical support. My mistake.

I was referring to the attitude. You're on the right board, but if you had done some research about your problem before making a bug report, you wouldnt have needed a bug report.

You based your hypothesis on the single fact that my machine was too crappy to run a "real server". I invalidated your hypothesis by observing that the server is not overrunning in any apparent way.

You're partially right. I also based my hypothesis on the fact that anyone submitting a bug report should have looked into the basic mechanics they were working with in the first place.

First of, this bug is what we, developers, call a silent failure. Meaning that it fails and the game works as if everything is fine and the behavior was by design. But it clearly doesn't work. No matter how you want to rationalize your point, this is a fact you cannot deny.

It works when you are near the spawn region so it's even worst because it works in some circumstances only.

Obviously this is to be avoided at all cost because it creates a lot of tech support, unsurprisingly (or forum support or whatever you want to call it). So the developers could do something about it. Whether by fixing it or through documentation, tutorials, warning messages, naming the world anchor something easier to figure out or else they have to accept to do tech/forum support and hire moderators that aren't rude to people.

And yes it can be fix, permanently. Every chunk with wires/pipes in it could be loaded/updated (i.e. wires would have the same effect as world anchor). That would also prevent excessive use of world anchors and avoid loading unnecessary chunks.

Not fixing it or not using world anchors can cause massive lags as items in transport pipes will drop when reaching an unloaded chunk, dropping items until you can't even get to 0.1 FPS. This is a serious issue.

I can understand if this would cause lag on overly populated servers, but I wonder what is the difference between this solution and putting world anchors everywhere you need it.

There are also numerous ways to optimize this. But anyway, that is up to the dev, they obviously aren't obligated in any way to do anything about this and that is perfectly fine. I'm just trowing ideas.

Also I read a lot of tutorials on tekkit and specifically wires, none talked about the world anchors. I searched the forum for this issue and found nothing. This needs more visibility. The simpliest way to "fix" this is to make a page with possible bugs that can be fixed with world anchors. That should cover the wires, machines, MFSUs, pipes, redstone and maybe other things I do not know exist in tekkit yet. This looks like a task for a mod. If such page exist, then add my bug description to it please.

Anyway If I were a moderator here I would do this right now as it would save a lot a work in the future (and apparently a lot of frustration).

I don't mean to angry the mods, I have however observed on this forum a lack of quality in support

We don't work for you guys, we aren't the tech support, we are forum support. We're here to force users to work properly, not make the game work properly.

Who in their right mind makes a game (or game mod) and say such things to players. This is insane. I know you are not the one who made tekkit and it shows but you still represent it. It's the official tekkit forum, right? Am I wrong? It is your duty to respect players. How did you get a mod rank anyway? You must know someone in the admins or something fishy like that because personally I would never accept a mod as disrespectful as you.

Actually, if you had followed my advice we could have gotten on with it and figured out the problem. INSTEAD, you decided that i was telling you to do things just to waste your time, and the best option was to argue about it instead.

That would have gotten us nowhere and you know it. So deal with it.

I don't need to argue with you when you give bad advices. As I said numerous times, this is secondary to the situation here. I don't even care about your bad advices. All I care about is that you stop being rude to people. You are not achieving anything good with that kind of attitude.

All that isn't a big deal anyway. As I said I'm not mad because you gave out a bad advice, I'm mad because you were unjustifiably rude. That is all.

Again. If this is coming as a surprise to you, you don't belong here.

So you're basically telling me that this forum is all about being unjustifiably rude and stuff and I should know it. Not sure other moderators would agree with you.

So should I be rude with you too? Is it a rule or something?

I don't mean to angry the mods, I have however observed on this forum a lack of quality in support

I can't tell for other moderators but if they are all like that, this must have a very bad effect on the community.

Hell - The Forum: ask questions, get bad advices by rude moderators. I hope it's not even close to that. I obviously have a biased point of view since I only experienced Jay? bad support.

I still can count on the other guys like Wendo and Sp0nge to get actual good friendly support. And guys like mnn and you to back people getting angry mod support at them. You guys should be the moderator around here.

perhaps Jay? needs a break?

I agree with you. :)

[Jay?]

The point of being rude is to drive people like you away. I wish it would be more successful.

The admins were well aware of my attitude before i was made a mod. In fact, my attitude is a subject of frequent jest around here. Seriously, if you are bothered, you do not belong here.

[WinryAsa]

I clearly do not belong here if this forum is not about the players and their need for support in order to enjoy the full awesomeness that is tekkit.

In fact, my attitude is a subject of frequent jest around here

Well I'm sorry to hear that, I didn't realize earlier that you are just a joke. Still rude though.

That explain why you can't even bring valid arguments. We should just all ignore you I guess. Like a annoyance in the background that just won't quit even in that face of obvious defeat.

You don't need a moderator rank to do that surely.

Epic trolling from a moderator on the Tekkit official forum. I was not expecting that at all.

[Jay?]

The jokes are generally about the people that i'm rude to. Have fun with that.

Again, this whole situation would have gone much better, and much quicker for you if you had followed my advice.

[WinryAsa]

lol you're funny. I'm starting to get why people laugh at your attitude. It's absurdly wrong and you think it is not.

[Jay?]

You aren't very bright are you? We moderate like this ON PURPOSE. Now, unless you start getting entertaining again very soon, i might get bored and shut this nonsense up.

[WinryAsa]

Well you proved one point. This is seriously not a place for any tekkit player.

Chase players like that then enjoy moderating a forum full of unsatisfied players.

You fail at mod.

[Jay?]

Uh huh. It's true. Tell me more.

[WinryAsa]

yep