Some Modders Genuinely Make Me Smile

[jakj]

Since I'm such a Negative Nancy, I thought I'd throw out a list of the people that really make me smile in the community. There may not be many of them, but they do shine.

mDiyo

Author of Natura and Tinker's Construct, this fellow not only has a good attitude about things, accepting suggestions and discussions when it's reasonable for him to do so, he also publishes under an open-community license and welcomes derivative works. His ideas are amazing, and any deep modularity and complex integration in a mod is something I enjoy immensely.

Bluedart

Author of Dartcraft, this fellow isn't afraid to mess with other mods, and has really gone out of his way to make player choice his #1 priority. He turns the entire world of Minecraft into even more of a play-dough set than it already was, giving you the tools to do anything you need at any time you need them. And he is so well-spoken, I almost imagine he could be a professional literary author.

The Logistic-Pipe Dev Team

These folks are really going the extra mile, making Buildcraft pipes their willing bitches to make a glorious visible living automaton out of everything you ever do. Don't get me wrong: Applied Energistics is neat, tidy, and efficient, but there's just something frickin' awesome about pressing a button and watching shit fly everywhere in an industrial ballet. And the icing on the cake? Buildcraft reimplements the auto-crafting table to be useless in Logistic Pipes despite that table being a core element of any Logistic Pipe system, so the devs just say "Challenge Accepted" and make their own. Boom!

MachineMuse

Author of Modular Powersuits, who has chosen both scala and glsl to be her bitches of choice to bend to her creative will, with an open attitude and great ideas, and even a neat hand with a 3d modeller, she's turned Steve into an electrically-charged superhero. If you ever want to see someone making Minecraft do things it honestly shouldn't have been able to ever do given the skill of its original author, look no further than this lady.

Searge

(EDIT) And how could I forget the creator of MCP, what makes this all possible? As open a mind as they come, sharing his effort with all of the community out of the goodness of his heart, and even running coding contests for fun to encourage new modders to get into the scene, he's the lynchpin of everything. If he ever burns out on Minecraft, ladies and gentlemen, we're completely and totally fucked, so keep him happy as long as he deserves to be.

This is not an exhaustive list, but this is what I came up with on the top of my head. Have I missed anyone else deserving of the title "Awesome And Open Minded Creator Of Stuff"? Post away.

[M-C]

Amazing list, I completely agree with anything said.

I like powercrystals a lot too. Not only did he create an amazing mod used in some of the oldest versions of Technic. He even reimplemented redpower wire AND all the gates, and added a ton more functions to them with that. He never runs out of steam, adding something new like every two weeks.

[Richs_Yard]

Im not on the list D:

[Lethosos]

Hehe, I should look up Searge. See what's up with him.

Im not on the list D:

Have you made a mod? If so, share it man!

[Richs_Yard]

My mod is a simple one that spams the chat with "Hi, my name is Rich and I am repetitive!" You sure you want it?

[holymage!]

Hehe, I should look up Searge. See what's up with him.

Have you made a mod? If so, share it man!

you should

all mods wouldn't be possible without his mod....he maintains MCP....

[Viktor_Berg]

I should add PowerCrystals, for his amazing and utilitary MineFactory Reloaded, as well as the (somewhat obsolete now, at least for Tekkit) Power Converters, which attempt to bridge all the different energy nets together.

And, of course, KingLemming. I don't think I need to elaborate here, do I?

[hoho]

Soooo, any changes on your opinion about mDiyo after he pulled a dick move in past couple of days, twice?

[jakj]

Soooo, any changes on your opinion about mDiyo after he pulled a dick move in past couple of days, twice?

No, because he did the right thing both times, and was even a bit more lenient than I would have been. Greg pulled a Sengir, and did it with even less class and panache than last time, more like throwing a turd in everyone's face instead of planting stinkbombs in corners and letting them go off so people had to find them.

mDiyo does things unobtrusively, for a reason, and gives config options. Not only that, but mDiyo has no problem in general with people fucking with his mod: Qwertyguy (i think that's his name?) has made a mod that will deconstruct TC tools, and mDiyo has endorsed it, even though mDiyo has said he will never add such a feature to his own mod because he thinks it's unbalancing and he doesn't like it.

mDiyo is awesome.

[hoho]

mDiyo does things unobtrusively, for a reason, and gives config options

except that he didn't for the whole wood-drama. He bluntly override the fully configurable recipe with a non-configurable one in a way that, if reports are to be believed, actually caused problems with craftbukkit servers. After greg pulled his stunt and mDiyo called for truce both removed their stupidity. Some time passed and mDiyo even asked slow to not have his mod together with GT in any modpacks.

Shortly after mDyio went in and re-added the un-nerf*, though with a config this time. Only problem is the config on his side causes more confusion than it fixes as to turn on the nerf you need to toggle it from both confs but to turn it off you only need to modify his.

*) Why was that even needed considering the two mods wouldn't end up together in any FTB pack?

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not defending greg crashing the game here. I'm merely saying that mDiyo is far from clean in the whole mess of drama and similarly to sengir incapable of proper communication. Quite similar behavior was from mDiyo regarding the fortune smelting problem as well and again, he pulled the trigger first there

[jakj]

except that he didn't for the whole wood-drama. He bluntly override the fully configurable recipe with a non-configurable one in a way that, if reports are to be believed, actually caused problems with craftbukkit servers. After greg pulled his stunt and mDiyo called for truce both removed their stupidity. Some time passed and mDiyo even asked slow to not have his mod together with GT in any modpacks.

Shortly after mDyio went in and re-added the un-nerf*, though with a config this time. Only problem is the config on his side causes more confusion than it fixes as to turn on the nerf you need to toggle it from both confs but to turn it off you only need to modify his.

*) Why was that even needed considering the two mods wouldn't end up together in any FTB pack?

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not defending greg crashing the game here. I'm merely saying that mDiyo is far from clean in the whole mess of drama and similarly to sengir incapable of proper communication. Quite similar behavior was from mDiyo regarding the fortune smelting problem as well and again, he pulled the trigger first there

Bullshit. Not adding the config option in the first place was a simple mistake: mDiyo has clearly demonstrated willingness to let users configure his mod by adding config options for other things in the past, including his own balance changes (e.g., the increased smeltery requrement).

It's rapidly becoming clear to me that open and cooperative modders are a precious resource to be treasured, as this recent "blowup" has revealed to me even more DRM than I thought existed, INCLUDING EVEN IN MOTHERFUCKING THAUMCRAFT.

Stop trying to make villians: You have plenty to choose from. Start with Sengir, CovertJaguar, Azanor, and RichardG, and go from there.

[Viktor_Berg]

I feel out of the loop. Can you guys enlighten me as to what's been happening with Greg, mDiyo and Azanor as of lately? What's the drama?

[hoho]

Bullshit. Not adding the config option in the first place was a simple mistake: mDiyo has clearly demonstrated willingness to let users configure his mod by adding config options for other things in the past, including his own balance changes (e.g., the increased smeltery requrement).

If I may ask, what was the need to even add the wood un-nerf to his mod in the first place if it was already configurable in GT? With the fortunesmelting fiasco he simply added a warning/suggestion to change GT configs but this time didn't even warn greg about it nor provided a config option.

Also, I wouldn't be so sure that it was a "simple mistake" but it's your word against mine here so I'll leave it at that.

It's rapidly becoming clear to me that open and cooperative modders are a precious resource to be treasured, as this recent "blowup" has revealed to me even more DRM than I thought existed, INCLUDING EVEN IN MOTHERFUCKING THAUMCRAFT.

Don't forget railcraft, IC2 and forestry checking on each other + RP2 and crashing when any of them were changed. That was made to fight against a mod that removed a DoS-attack enabling bug from RP2 by patching RP2 binary, quite similar to your soulshards fix. Though I think all but RC have removed the code by now and the code there only triggers if those mods actually use signature (they don't atm in 1.5).

__

"Short" summary:

Some time more than half a year ago (= before TiC was even released) greg made metal storage block un-crafting into a furnace recipe and had configs to disable that.

Mid-january first commit to TiC was made

Around May this TiC added fortune smelting meaning one can apply autosmelt+fortune on tools. Even though in vanilla fortune only works on ores he made it work on anything that can be smelted, including wood, animals, cobble and, yes, GT metal storage blocks. Those started giving out 9-36 ingots with fortune 3.

mDiyo told greg to change his default conf to disable storage block smelting, greg replied by asking him to make it work as in vanilla (= only ores) and add config to allow users to disable the fortunesmelting interaction

At that point communication between the two stopped

mDiyo added a startup message complaining how greg causes a dupe bug and told users to modify gregs conf to disable the un-smelting storage blocks

Greg responded by a similar wall of text telling why mDiyos should have made fortune to only work on ores and how he should add a config option

That lasted for a while (can't remember if several days or couple of weeks) but in the end mDiyo did add the config option and so both removed the messages and everything seemed calm

A few days ago greg made a big update to his mod that reworked vanilla techtree. He made the basic metal tools require hammer+file to craft, cut wooden and stone tool durability to ~1/3 and made plank and stick recipes to return only two items instead of four. To get full four one had to use a saw in the recipe (or TE/GT sawmill to get >4 planks). All these had config options to be turned off.

mDyio raged and added a un-nerf feature to his mod that override the fully configurable GT features with non-configurable ones.

When greg found out he simply had his mod to trigger his old item-ID conflict->crash when he found TiC loaded. His reasoning was that by making enough noise the issue between the mods would be resolved faster than with fortune smelting, damned be the community and anyones opinion of him

lots of drama followed consisting of at least a few hundred pages of forum threads

In less than 24h mDiyo called for truce and removed the un-nerf code from his mod. Greg quickly followed by removing anything anti-mDyio/TiC from his. The total time when the combination of mods that could have had the crash thingy occur lasted for about 20-ish hours.

Slowpoke stepped in and told they were discussing it in private and figuring out what to do

mDiyo said he had demanded his mod to not be together with GT in FTB packs and he was granted that

A few hours later mDiyo wrote on IC2 forums that he re-added the un-nerf feature to his mod, though with a somewhat confusing config this time, and demanded greg to stay away from his mods

Greg basically went WTF and blamed mDiyo of lying about the truce and removal of the offending code, though hasn't done anything in retaliation except a visual change of having mDyio's player wear a "pumpkin of shame" (immibis also has that for demanding greg to add config options he doesn't want to add).

I think this is the current situation unless something changed while I wrote the post. I have no clue where Azanor comes into play in all this. If I got anything wrong please feel free to fix it. The data is gathered over those hundreds of pages of forum posts ant twitter. In the sheer amount of datanoise I wouldn't be surprised to have missed something.

[edit]

Also, it has NEVER been about the fact that someone overrides a recipe GT added. It was always how it was done. You may dislike GT/greg as much as you like but he actually does respect configs of other mods, even for forestry bronze.

[Viktor_Berg]

I am on mDiyo's side on this one. Greg fucking with vanilla balance, when so MANY mods rely on it, is going way too far.

[hoho]

I am on mDiyo's side on this one. Greg fucking with vanilla balance, when so MANY mods rely on it, is going way too far.

Exactly for this reason greg had a configuration option for the changed features from the very start. Have you ever heard about any mod knowingly overriding a configurable option in an another one?

As for changing vanilla balance, do you consider vanilla to be a sort of a sacred cow no one should dare touch or change?

No one forces people to use GT, it's fully up to the players to first choose the mod and then choose the config options. Greg has never made a point about gathering fame by being in a modpack* or generally catering to the desires of people (even though through the MASSIVE config he does do it anyway) so he didn't feel as if having his way as default as something bad. His grand aim is to make mods work well together in a somewhat sane and unified tech-tree. Until the change the vanilla itself was rather badly balanced giving massively OP stone tools and making getting metal ones nearly meaningless.

You can think of it like terrafirma craft but instead of giving the finger to all other mods he actually tries to incorporate them in his vision.

*) Slow approached greg personally to get the mod into FTB, not the other way around

[Lethosos]

I'm starting to see the re-implementation of the un-nerf in TC code as a means of covering his ass. Precisely for what besides the obvious, I'm still not sure. Even the folks at FTBforums is having a similar, if longer, field day over the same general issue between GregT and mDiyo.

The question, I think, is does GregT want a hardmode mod, or a total conversion mod? Vanilla mechanics is already self-balanced, IMO.

[hoho]

The question, I think, is does GregT want a hardmode mod, or a total conversion mod? Vanilla mechanics is already self-balanced, IMO.

I believe greg wants a longer gameplay with minimum unbalances. To get there he has to change a ton of stuff, including vanilla. At the point his mod was added to 1.4 FTB packs it was mostly a (big) addon to IC2. Since then it has become pretty much a total conversion of IC2 and moving towards doing the same with vanilla. It's not rational to expect that people playing it in 1.4 would have the same experience in 1.6.

I'm pasting the text I said about it for at least fourth time now but I believe it's a pretty good reason why the change is beneficial*:

What do you do for gathering resources? For me in early game it means cave exploring. Having to explore a dangerous world for more time to get to state where it isn't as dangerous any more most definitely increases the difficulty of playing. In a non-gt modpack all you need is one trip to a cave to get enough stuff to set up fully automated mining and never to return there again.

*) That assumes you actually like this kind of challenge. If you don't then obviously GT with it's default settings is not for you.

[Neowulf]

Do the gregtech vanilla nerfs default on or off?

[Lethosos]

Oh, I know what he is attempting, it's what his end goal is. If I wanted total conversion, I'd play TerraFirmaCraft, which is way more mature. If I wanted a harder game, I'd look into mods that add extra layers to the game past the Ender Dragon just for that purpose.

Thing is, I play modded Minecraft to be inventive and ask myself, "How do I do this?". Not to re-learn everything and get needlessly killed every half-hour because I don't have the proper equipment, nor because it takes me ages to just build the basic tools to start solving my problems.

In my worlds, I see a creeper, I expect that it will blow my crap up if I don't lead it away or kill it fast. Not teleport like an Enderman right behind me and detonate. I like vanilla mechanics, and I don't need them ducked with just to satisfy someone else's need to make a harder game.

[jakj]

Greg has the right to alter vanilla recipes. mDiyo has the right to alter Greg recipes. Greg has the right to un-alter recipes mDiyo altered. All three of these should be configurable by the end-user/player. None of these should ever result in a deliberate crash.

That is my unwavering position.

[hoho]

Do the gregtech vanilla nerfs default on or off?

They default to on.

If I wanted total conversion, I'd play TerraFirmaCraft, which is way more mature.

What if you wanted a total conversion with tech mod(s)? GT is the closest thing we have at the moment.

If I wanted a harder game, I'd look into mods that add extra layers to the game past the Ender Dragon just for that purpose.

Hardness can be added to both ends of spectrum.

Thing is, I play modded Minecraft to be inventive and ask myself, "How do I do this?". Not to re-learn everything and get needlessly killed every half-hour because I don't have the proper equipment, nor because it takes me ages to just build the basic tools to start solving my problems.

In my worlds, I see a creeper, I expect that it will blow my crap up if I don't lead it away or kill it fast. Not teleport like an Enderman right behind me and detonate. I like vanilla mechanics, and I don't need them ducked with just to satisfy someone else's need to make a harder game.

No one forces you to use GT. If you don't like the mod you are not in it's target audience. Exactly the same things were said about EE2 and everyone understood it then. Why is it so different now?

Though this is going a bit OT, my point was to show that even as good people as mDiyo can occasionally pull a dick move here and there. If people/mods don't mind discussing GT and/or difficulty vs tedium vs whatever I won't mind doing it.

Greg has the right to alter vanilla recipes. mDiyo has the right to alter Greg recipes. Greg has the right to un-alter recipes mDiyo altered. All three of these should be configurable by the end-user/player. None of these should ever result in a deliberate crash.

Exactly and even greg doesn't have an argument there. Problem started at the point where a configurable option was being overridden by a non-configurable one.

[jakj]

Exactly and even greg doesn't have an argument. Problem started at the point where a configurable option was being overridden by a non-configurable one.

Which was a MISTAKE. Ever heard of those? Human beings fuck up. Maybe it didn't occur to him; Maybe he thought nobody offhand would care. mDiyo is a good guy: When he changed his smeltery, and people said "hey, you know, that's great and all, but I don't like it", he added a config option. So if Greg or GregTech players had said "hey, you know, that's great and all, but I don't like it", he would have added a config option.

Do you know what had happened? Complaint after complaint after complaint about how his mod and GregTech interacted. He got sick of it and made a change, and OH MY GOD HE FORGOT A CONFIG OPTION THAT HE COULD HAVE JUST BEEN REMINDED OF TO PUT IN AS A PATCH OH GODS THE WORLD IS FUCKING BURSTING INTO A CLOUD OF DUST get over it.

mDiyo makes a simple tweak, and an attention whore throws a fit. The rest went as expected.

[Lethosos]

No one forces you to use GT. If you don't like the mod you are not in it's target audience. Exactly the same things were said about EE2 and everyone understood it then. Why is it so different now?

And it hasn't changed, from my point. I don't like GT, I avoid playing with it. Why do your statements say I'm being forced to play it in the first place? I merely strongly disagree with the mechanics implemented. The fact that GregT acts like a little child doesn't help his mod one bit.

[hoho]

Do you know what had happened? Complaint after complaint after complaint about how his mod and GregTech interacted. He got sick of it and made a change, and OH MY GOD HE FORGOT A CONFIG OPTION THAT HE COULD HAVE JUST BEEN REMINDED OF TO PUT IN AS A PATCH OH GODS THE WORLD IS FUCKING BURSTING INTO A CLOUD OF DUST get over it.

It took about two months of complaining by players for mDiyo to add config option for fortune smelting. During big part of that time he had a message complaining about GT being the fault of dupe.

[holymage!]

Stop trying to make villians: You have plenty to choose from. Start with Sengir, CovertJaguar, Azanor, and RichardG, and go from there.

Sengir is the bottom of a shit barrel, i agree with that.

Covert and Azanor i don't know much about, but i think Azanor is more miss-lead then anything seems like a pretty nice guy imo

i know RG is a troll, but why do we hate him?

you also forgot the creator of GT