[Q] ChunkLoadingBlocks and TeleportBlocks no more?

[Stealth]

Howdy all, new forum member, but long-time Technic/Tekkit player here co-running a small 3-player server. Us three usually follow every upgrade that's done and aren't afraid to rebuild from scratch if need be, but the last revision made us all wary of upgrading.

Here's the thing. All three of us build remote miners and quarries to speed up the resource-gathering ops, and more often than not we keep those far away from the power-plants and the stockpiles. We all found it much easier to make a good sorting and auto-macerating, auto-smelting machinery at our homebases than directly on the spot. That goes double for power transfer, because even with conversion boxes the costs are much lower.

I admit, we didn't do any load testing to see if they impact the server speed any, but if anything they shouldn't affect it negatively - no chunks inbetween, say, a powerstation at home and a remote drill with a power converter and a chunk-loader would need loading. So the question is, why were they removed?

[KakerMix]

It is a poorly-built mod, code wise. People who've examined the code directly described it as 'scary'.

We've ran into some serious issues with stability in our testing so removed it. The original creator is also kind of a douchebag and as since stopped maintaining the mod.

You can always attempt to add it back in yourself, but it isn't worth bringing down the rest of the pack.

[MechaCrash]

I assume the new guy maintaining it has not fixed the bad code that went into it?

[sourhaggis]

Anyone worked out a way to get Additional Pipes to work on 1.1.4 ? I know its not going to be supported for current release which is a shame but hope it makes a come back in 1.1.0

I see the DaStormbringer and Zeldo have done some work on additional pipes for BC 2.2.12 for both client and server, hopefully more stable and for release of BC Ver 3+ (when that is converted to server)

On a side note it woud be good if someone worked out a way to get pipes to work through multiverse portal.. but then the issue with chunkloading comes into effect. I wish I had the skill, knowledge and time to be able to mod.

[raptor0348]

yeah i really enjoyed having teleport and power teleport blocks to use mobile quarries. enderchests now cover the item part. but not quite power. i really hope teleport pipes and chunk loading makes a come back. hell even logistics pipes would be awesome

[sourhaggis]

I think sometimes the game is reduced to how lazy can I be.. logisitic pipes, BC, Industrial craft etc, etc, all I need is an automatic beer production and a way to watch sports though minecraft... oh and a "spread out on couch" plugin

[Aelphais]

Does this mean that Advanced Insertion pipes and Distribution pipes are also out? Teleport pipes I can live without if I get a little unlazy, but I really liked distribution pipes.

[KakerMix]

Advanced Buildcraft Objects and Logisitc Pipes are in, however you guys should *really* try to break your Buildcraft item pipe addiction and really delve into Tubes. Tubes do all these things without mods and with a much cleaner interface.

[ingeraskurai]

I can definately understand why they would be removed, it would put a strain on a high volume server. I myself only play SMP with a maximum of 2 other people and that's high for me. is it possibly for me to add them into my server myself? i tried getting the original additional pipes server file and adding that but that didn't do anything, after looking around a bit i found an additonal pipes info in the buildcraft folder but it was altered.

I'm wondering if it's even possible for me to add them or will it not work with tekkit?

[MechaCrash]

Tubes are inherently smarter and easier to use than pipes, but you're stuck with pipes if you want to move liquids around, and a lot of machinery can automatically push their output into pipes, but not tubes.

I also think that the logic gates of Buildcraft 3 will give pipes a place again, because they'll be much more programmable than pipes. Of course, you can probably fake it with structure pipes and use tubes anyway for most purposes, but such is life.

As for the specific Zeldo's Additional Pipes mod people keep asking for, I think it's specifically because of the teleport pipes and chunk loaders, because nothing in RedPower replicates those.

[Neowulf]

Advanced Buildcraft Objects and Logisitc Pipes are in, however you guys should *really* try to break your Buildcraft item pipe addiction and really delve into Tubes. Tubes do all these things without mods and with a much cleaner interface.

By in do you mean planned inclusion with the next release, or just someone can put them in manually?

Because I've tried tossing the appropriate zips for additional buildcraft objects into the mods folder, and mod loader just ignores them erroring "wrong folder". The insides of the zip files are different from the other mods in stock tekkit as well, which I'm guessing is the cause of the error.

I'm really interested in the balance pipe and insertion pipe

[Reggubha]

Advanced Buildcraft Objects and Logisitc Pipes are in, however you guys should *really* try to break your Buildcraft item pipe addiction and really delve into Tubes. Tubes do all these things without mods and with a much cleaner interface.

Yes, but your basic BC pipe is constructed with cobble and glass, both easily renewable resources (considering how cobble macerates into sand), while tubes use bronze, making the entry price waaaay higher for a system of any notable complexity. :-\

Basically, having just two diamonds (for the sorting pipes) you can build quite a complex plant. Add gold for speed.

With RP tubes, you need two gold for EVERY filter, so logistically you need up to 8 gold to emulate one diamond BC pipe. 2 diamonds for 8 sorting pipes in BC vs 16 gold for RP tubes. Given the much higher demand for gold (at least in my experience), that is not a good comparison.

Plus all of the points offered by MechaCrash above (liquids and machinery compatibility).

[kawaiiwolf]

If gold is your problem, try dipping into the nether. With nether ores, it's practically littering the nether if you can survive long enough to haul your finds back with you. Just be careful, I've found blocks down there randomly exploding ... and gasts don't make things much easier either.

[KakerMix]

Tubes are inherently smarter and easier to use than pipes, but you're stuck with pipes if you want to move liquids around, and a lot of machinery can automatically push their output into pipes, but not tubes.

RedPower can output to tubes just fine, you need to set up the proper retriever system is all. Its hard to shake how you build things in Buildcraft when working with tubes, but its totally possible.

Liquid and Energy pipes are just fine, its Buildcraft's Item Transport pipes that are outclassed, this is why I specify 'item' pipes.

[ingeraskurai]

using the buildcraft diamond pipes i made a sorting system that was only about 6 blocks long, sorted all the items i got from a quary and teleported them to the right chest, teleport pipes on chests were in the back so you couldn't see them, and the sorting was done by diamond pipes in the ceiling(glass so you could see the items moving). adding onto it was as simple as adding another diamond pipe to the end, i had all my items sent to this machine and it sorted everything. now if i was to do the same with redpower it would be alot larger, harder to handle, and bottom line it just wouldn't look as nice.

but back to original question i had, is there anyway i can enable them again?

don't think i put it there but there's a config file in the buildcraft folder which apparently enables/disables teleport pipes o.O has them all enabled though...

[kawaiiwolf]

Another problem is just pure logistics. Lets say you build a HUGE pipeway. The problem is, not all of it will be loaded so you're going to lose information. The only way I can see this working is with rail carts and a server mod that keeps the carts chunks loaded.

Teleport pipes, while a little theme breaking, do solve the problem of not having to keep large tracts of land and pipe loaded just to transport stuff. Either way, we're going to have to learn to live without

[SimpleGuy]

I've never really been a big BC fan (I find this whole "create a 1 meter by 1 meter moving piston and it provides power!" really silly), but I've been building a RedPower tube system with an automatic sorting and storage well (along with a recycling station for an overflow of any specific items, or if people put in undesirable items i.e. Rotten Flesh. Yay automation!). I love it, wasn't that hard to set up (although Ender Pearls are the one thing I find hard to obtain), and if there's complaining about specific ores then I highly suggest using IC2 Miners to snipe good ores so you don't have to wait on quarries, or dig down by hand to place them at the lower locations.

All in all, I've never used teleport pipes (I find BC pipes ugly personally) and have had almost no resource problems (again, excepting Ender pearls). Almost finished getting ~2800 Reinforced Stone for my Nuclear Powerplant's hull.

The only three gripes I have with RedPower2:

1) Uses bluetricity instead of EUs (Two power systems isn't that hard to do but it isn't super nice)

2) Can't interact with BC's automatic crafting table well

3) Requires lots of Ender Pearls for Retrievers (so higher cost in making an automated sorting/overflow system)

Of course, I do things pretty locally so I can understand how the chunk unloading could be a pain. But RP2 isn't bad, just different.

[ingeraskurai]

I've never really been a big BC fan (I find this whole "create a 1 meter by 1 meter moving piston and it provides power!" really silly), but I've been building a RedPower tube system with an automatic sorting and storage well (along with a recycling station for an overflow of any specific items, or if people put in undesirable items i.e. Rotten Flesh. Yay automation!). I love it, wasn't that hard to set up (although Ender Pearls are the one thing I find hard to obtain), and if there's complaining about specific ores then I highly suggest using IC2 Miners to snipe good ores so you don't have to wait on quarries, or dig down by hand to place them at the lower locations.

All in all, I've never used teleport pipes (I find BC pipes ugly personally) and have had almost no resource problems (again, excepting Ender pearls). Almost finished getting ~2800 Reinforced Stone for my Nuclear Powerplant's hull.

The only three gripes I have with RedPower2:

1) Uses bluetricity instead of EUs (Two power systems isn't that hard to do but it isn't super nice)

2) Can't interact with BC's automatic crafting table well

3) Requires lots of Ender Pearls for Retrievers (so higher cost in making an automated sorting/overflow system)

Of course, I do things pretty locally so I can understand how the chunk unloading could be a pain. But RP2 isn't bad, just different.

in real life portable generators are actually about that size, some are even smaller.

I'm actually the opposite. i like the colorful buildcraft pipes and i find the redpower pipes a bit dull. the redpower sorter is nice but limited, with teleport pipes i easily built a single system that sorted every mineable/droppable item into different chests with just one system, even had it setup so that any excess items that wouldn't fit into a chest would be sent to an overflow chest that i could check to see the status of my items. i could build it without the teleport pipes but that would be beyond messy and tricky. the system i had setup only took a space up about 7x3 blocks i believe

elso earlier today i built a pipe from a farm leading into my house to deposit wheat. gf got mad at me and told me i'd have to move it underground or hide it somewhere since she didn't like the look of pipes >.< really wish i had a teleport pipe then...

[dragonlord]

I've taken a look at the code of Additional Pipes, and it is hell. It's not worth maintaining or fixing it.

Plus, the author of that mod does not even understand the point of open source. Saying "It's My Stuff" on his page at code.google.com either means he's never done any real open source work, or is just plain stupid.

I do have plans on creating an equivalent implementation, as I'm heavily dependent on the teleport pipes. I have a floating island on my server, which houses my power plant and storage area. Some of my quarries are 5000 blocks away, and I can't afford to transport them that far.

I can't promise anything at the moment, since I'll be busy with a new project. Regardless, I really need them, so might as well make them.

[MechaCrash]

Are you going to bother with the rest of the stuff from the Extra Pipes mod? The teleport pipes and chunk loaders are the big ones, since nothing else does that, but the others do have occasional (if largely replicable with Buildcraft) uses.

[kawaiiwolf]

Teleport pipes are nice but we're missing the root problem here, the chunk loader. There are some mods out there that will keep chunks loaded but that's done via explicit administration. There needs to be something more autonomous, perhaps even a solution that needs to be built directly into buildcraft/redpower. How do you deal with items/signals/events leaving a loaded chunk.

[dragonlord]

Are you going to bother with the rest of the stuff from the Extra Pipes mod? The teleport pipes and chunk loaders are the big ones, since nothing else does that, but the others do have occasional (if largely replicable with Buildcraft) uses.

Nope. I agree with KakerMix about Redpower. I use both buildcraft and redpower in implementing my sorting and distribution system. If implemented right. you don't need the Extra Pipes mod.

The chunk loading problem is not as easy as what most people think.

[dragonlord]

Teleport pipes are nice but we're missing the root problem here, the chunk loader. There are some mods out there that will keep chunks loaded but that's done via explicit administration. There needs to be something more autonomous, perhaps even a solution that needs to be built directly into buildcraft/redpower. How do you deal with items/signals/events leaving a loaded chunk.

Let me explain why automated detection of chunks is not really simple.

Yes, it is possible to implement that feature by looking for a specific block and traversing it until you reach the end. For every block found, you register its associated chunk to a watch list. But that comes with a cost.

Due to the way the minecraft server was implemented, doing such a thing will cost alot of computing time, which translates to lag. Best way to avoid it is to throw more hardware at the problem, but there aren't many people running dedicated servers.

[kawaiiwolf]

Well, one approach would be to keep track of the items inside of the tubes. If an item is moving toward an unloaded chunk, load it. Once there are no more items inside a chunk that would otherwise be unloaded, unload it. Sadly this is only an implementation for the transport issue and doesn't really solve the problem of a large redstone network. However, I can see pipeways spanning a much larger chunk distance than a redstone network (at least until BC 3 that is).

Edit: To clarify - To detect if an item is headed toward an unloaded chunk, see if there is an item inside a tube on the boundary of a chunk. Since precise timing isn't necessary for item transport (like it could be for redstone), a slight delay in the loading of a chunk wouldn't seriously compromise the integrity of a long pipe transport system.

[dragonlord]

Well, one approach would be to keep track of the items inside of the tubes. If an item is moving toward an unloaded chunk, load it. Once there are no more items inside a chunk that would otherwise be unloaded, unload it. Sadly this is only an implementation for the transport issue and doesn't really solve the problem of a large redstone network. However, I can see pipeways spanning a much larger chunk distance than a redstone network (at least until BC 3 that is).

Edit: To clarify - To detect if an item is headed toward an unloaded chunk, see if there is an item inside a tube on the boundary of a chunk. Since precise timing isn't necessary for item transport (like it could be for redstone), a slight delay in the loading of a chunk wouldn't seriously compromise the integrity of a long pipe transport system.

That would work, however that approach consumes even more CPU cycles, since you have to monitor every item passing thru the pipes.

In any case, I'll worry about it once I start doing this. :D