If Tekkit 3.1.1 is being pushed for the server why isn't it the RB?

[NixillUmbreon]

http://forums.technicpack.net/threads/tekkit-3-1-1-is-out.9821/

New Technic website, Tekkit 3.1.1 release, and Technic Questions launch! We've been busy! http://t.co/dRNuUny3

— Technic (@TechnicPack) July 20, 2012

This announcement and tweet make it seem like Tekkit 3.1 is the official recommended build. In addition, it's being displayed prominently all over the site. If that's the case, why is it not the Recommended Build on the launcher?

And if it's because it really is just a Beta Build, then the reverse question applies: Why is it being pushed so much if it's just a Beta Build?

[Backplague]

The Technic team is waiting a week or so to see if any major bugs pop up. After none has, it will be pushed to the recommended.

[ronneke1996]

Because they first want to test 3.1.1 very good before they make it a rec. Build.

[ledhead900]

The Technic team is waiting a week or so to see if any major bugs pop up. After none has, it will be pushed to the recommended.

I don't mean to talk out of place here, but if that is what the real plans are then why on earth would they publish this build all over the main page and have the Tekkit Server download links all point to this new for lack of a better term and so far told Development build. That is just the exact opposite of what the goals for this release are that you yourself have just stated, In fact I don't think I would be wrong to say it is quite hypocritical of Tekkit team to wish to keep testing this build for a week while every man and his dog is going to download this new version and whack on the live public server and have to deal with the slew of complaints from players and clients alike about how they all get error code "4096" because the client has not been pushed to match the version that is being publicly announced as the current version for download.

Sure I did make backups and I do have a completely intact full server backup so I can revert this mess before any of my players find out I have updated the server but for the love of god is it just me who thinks this was completely the wrong move to make. I almost feel as though the team should release the build as recommended now and just deal with the fact they may need to release a recommended a bit sooner to patch up any minor/major issues just because Its not obvious and nowhere but on the forum in this thread is it told that 3.1.1 is a test release.

Sure I love the Team who make this possible but I still have to question the motive for doing this when its not even on the gender for a 24 hour reco update for client to match.

Edit

I am not sure if that statement is true or not I have not seen anything else suggesting this is the case from any other ranking member of the community.

[danidas]

Read this - http://forums.technicpack.net/threads/3-1-1-not-a-recommende-build.16120/

And this - http://www.technicpack.net/964/

It you look at the news post they clearly mention that 3.1.1 is the recommended build for servers and they are waiting one week to make the client recommended. This is being done to give servers more time to upgrade and to make sure it has no issues before everyone has to upgrade to it. They did the exact same thing for the release of tekkit 3 and it appears mostly normal for future releases.

[ledhead900]

I see, Still I don't completely agree, they can say that its better for the servers to test and not having screaming clients/ customers about issues but the same holds true if you do update, you will always have those majority of players that lack the IQ level to find the options button in the launcher and switch to dev build or switch back, that is if they even bother to read the announcement on your website or forums that you have update your server.

While I want to give this a run I just know most our players would get lost and confused so its better to just wait for the recommended version of the client. I have already gave this a 10min run on my own but what I do really .

I far more curious as to why they are using outdated versions IC2 and other mods which clearly have stability fixes NEI is one the ones with a newer update that shouldn't break anything it just has stability fixes.

[Torezu]

It's simple, really, and we've been over this in another thread. The server rec. build is pushed first because server owners can then see that there's a new build, research if they want/need new plugins, get configs set up, etc. Then their clients can do the update at their leisure. If you push them both at the same time, we'll have a bunch of people in here screaming that they can't get on their favorite server because it's not updated and why Technic team did you do something so stupid whyyyy?!?!?! You get the idea.

[ledhead900]

It's simple, really, and we've been over this in another thread. The server rec. build is pushed first because server owners can then see that there's a new build, research if they want/need new plugins, get configs set up, etc. Then their clients can do the update at their leisure. If you push them both at the same time, we'll have a bunch of people in here screaming that they can't get on their favorite server because it's not updated and why Technic team did you do something so stupid whyyyy?!?!?! You get the idea.

Yes I read the links that had you guys saying that, But I responded to the post that gave me those links and I had my take on it as the post above yours, I understand the whole principal but in reality it just does not always work the way you plan it. To viably test this for an extended time I need to actually them and explain to them how to swap to development build which takes time, as most of them fail to read any other form of communication that I have posted on the website or Forums or MOTD or a simple News Feed.

After All of this is done I push the update then some people come on while I get more who start screaming about missing information and not knowing how to get back on. Then When its time to actually tell them to swap back to recommended the cycle repeats without the server update part. My point ?, Its going to be about the same hassle either way, It would be better time spent leaving the build on development and offering a second download as a development download or Test Build Section and letting those who do have the IQ average to accomplish the task of migration and then reverting to give these new builds a good run through and also because its pushed as development any thing important that comes up during the week the client normally would have to wait for an update can be applied to the to be recommended build before it is pushed to the server and client.

I totally understand what an ass discussion it would have been to figure out how to do the release but I am just giving an opinion and hopefully something worth reading that is not the same as the other whiners, the overall moral though is if the host is wanting to try an update out before his players are forced to use it then he or she would do using a development build much like he or she would update a plugin to a development build for testing if a fix really worked or not, There are times when development builds are quite stable.

If the releases are going to continue like this then I would be nicer to and easier for everyone if it was not splashed all over the front page and contained within the Forums with a nice note saying that the client does not update right away.

I know you cannot please everyone but I am just trying to offer viable solutions that may work better in the long run for both parties involved. Both have perks and Cons but I think your going to have the same situation regardless how you do it, if you keep going the way you are you solve a lot of the hassle on this end of things but you create more when people who have been testing it out come back and whine about bugs or broken features, stuff this is too late to fix in the current release but could have been detected and easily applied to the pushed recommend build.

[Torezu]

It would be better time spent leaving the build on development and offering a second download as a development download or Test Build Section and letting those who do have the IQ average to accomplish the task of migration and then reverting to give these new builds a good run through and also because its pushed as development any thing important that comes up during the week the client normally would have to wait for an update can be applied to the to be recommended build before it is pushed to the server and client.

You don't think the Technic site's bandwidth is high enough already?

I totally understand what an ass discussion it would have been to figure out how to do the release but I am just giving an opinion and hopefully something worth reading that is not the same as the other whiners, the overall moral though is if the host is wanting to try an update out before his players are forced to use it then he or she would do using a development build much like he or she would update a plugin to a development build for testing if a fix really worked or not, There are times when development builds are quite stable.

So...go download the new server, stick it in a new place, configure it, test it, etc., etc., then copy the world, config, and data files over and let your players at it?

If the releases are going to continue like this then I would be nicer to and easier for everyone if it was not splashed all over the front page and contained within the Forums with a nice note saying that the client does not update right away.

You mean like this?

I know you cannot please everyone but I am just trying to offer viable solutions that may work better in the long run for both parties involved. Both have perks and Cons but I think your going to have the same situation regardless how you do it, if you keep going the way you are you solve a lot of the hassle on this end of things but you create more when people who have been testing it out come back and whine about bugs or broken features, stuff this is too late to fix in the current release but could have been detected and easily applied to the pushed recommend build.

It's been pretty thoroughly tested on the dev end before the "dev" build is pushed out. It's not like TechnicSSP, where the dev builds are more for people to just try if they want and report bugs. This is how they've done it, and it's worked out pretty well so far.

[ledhead900]

You don't think the Technic site's bandwidth is high enough already?

I don't know can I see the site usage and limits ?, too many factors to say here, Bukkit's site is probably heavier and they push lots of versions.

So...go download the new server, stick it in a new place, configure it, test it, etc., etc., then copy the world, config, and data files over and let your players at it?

That is what I have done, but its about equal as your above quote "You don't think the Technic site's bandwidth is high enough already?" Except this applies to the server host.

You mean like this?

Nope that was pushed too late its dated as yesterday the hassle has already started this info needs to be on the download page

and cleanly worded "Recommended Client not available right now use Development Client"

It's been pretty thoroughly tested on the dev end before the "dev" build is pushed out. It's not like TechnicSSP, where the dev builds are more for people to just try if they want and report bugs. This is how they've done it, and it's worked out pretty well so far.

That is a fair point.

Still its just repeating itself, I mean You give server a reco but not client saying its for testing and reporting of any issues before launching client reco which has its pro's but you still get your fixes if you just released the reco on both then you can still get feedback and owners wont have any hassle as they will do the testing of plugins and things regardless and you guys will push a server fix if required or minor client version update as required regardless.

The only thing that changes is that we have no one confused. As it stands right now I am look over the forums and I am seeing a lot of new floods of " I CANT CONNECT" and "THIS HAS BUG OR IS BROKEN" these all started when the 3.1.1 was announced and some of them are labeled as 3.1.1 issue but its too late now if its a server issue you cannot fix that with out a new minor release because its already released.

Look I'm not here to cause a stir or anything I cant make things be changed I can only offer validation for why improvement could be made.

[Torezu]

You know what? If you think you know better how to do it, take it up with Kaker or sct. I'm a forum mod, and I'm done arguing administrative stuff with you. For reference, last I saw the Technic site was pushing a terabyte a day, and it's probably higher now.

[ledhead900]

I modified my post, maybe I will but are they going to be as reasonable as I am or just ban me?, I don't call this arguing I am just trying to get the other side of the ball across but constructively.

How would I take this up I am pretty sure there is a rule about PMing a member of Staff. I would probably just be yelled at anyway but like I said in my modified post above I am NOT here to stir up trouble I just wanted to try find a better solution. Sorry for wasting your time.

[Torezu]

I modified my post, maybe I will but are they going to be as reasonable as I am or just ban me?, I don't call this arguing I am just trying to get the other side of the ball across but doing it a way that is not just whining about it.

How would I take this up I am pretty sure there is a rule about PMing a member of Staff. I would probably just be yelled at anyway but like I said in my modified post above I am here to stir up trouble I just wanted to try find a better solution. Sorry for wasting your time.

You don't need to italicize every post. It's a bit annoying.

I don't believe you would get banned for PMing a member of the staff, since it's not a bug report. However, be aware that this discussion has been done to death already, and like you said, we're going to get screaming posts either way from people who can't/won't read, so...

[ledhead900]

Fair enough, I will just make do like we all do when the Mojang half ass a release and give us a broken game. If the team stumble across this so be it I guess but I don't see a need to drag it up again if others have talked about these points already.

[Object]

You do realize that the Bukkit staff are now paid employees of Mojang right? You can't compare what the Bukkit team does to what the Technicpack team 'should' do. Maybe one day Mojang will put the technicpack team on salary, but until they do you just have to be happy with what you're getting for free.

I'm extremely happy with what the technicpack team has done, I no longer have to mod the client and distribute the modded client to all of my users. I run 3.1.1 on my server and I explain to my players that if they're too incompetent to understand how to change to a manual build selection then they need to go back to playing Runescape or well join your server where you obviously spoon-feed your playerbase.

My 11 year old cousin picked up on the concept of doing a manual build selection, are you trying to imply that your playerbase is less intelligent then a 11 year old girl? If so, then that's pretty condescending thought towards your playerbase.

[ledhead900]

You do realize that the Bukkit staff are now paid employees of Mojang right? You can't compare what the Bukkit team does to what the Technicpack team 'should' do. Maybe one day Mojang will put the technicpack team on salary, but until they do you just have to be happy with what you're getting for free.

I'm extremely happy with what the technicpack team has done, I no longer have to mod the client and distribute the modded client to all of my users. I run 3.1.1 on my server and I explain to my players that if they're too incompetent to understand how to change to a manual build selection then they need to go back to playing Runescape or well join your server where you obviously spoon-feed your playerbase.

My 11 year old cousin picked up on the concept of doing a manual build selection, are you trying to imply that your playerbase is less intelligent then a 11 year old girl? If so, then that's pretty condescending thought towards your playerbase.

Well I was referring to Bukkit in general way before they became mojang they were pushing out builds that could be forked and so on in mostly real time so I think that point has not validation to it since except for the fact there was no client updating required but I have already taken that into account.

As for that second bit "which for now I will just assume was a troll attempt" No not at all most of regular players will pick it up just fine and we don't spoon feed our player base there is no need for that if they don't like it they can just leave find a server with no rules or regulations of any kind. Sure I can vouch for the fact that half of the new players who come and go are morons that fail to type a single command shown on a massive monitor to get the password that unlocks the terminal that keeps the door closed and them from the outside world until they can follow a simple instruction.

Sure I do have to throw them the base command for something like Towny or show them where a decent a plot can be found because I didn't exactly give them a shining arrow to the plots directly I did put a nice glowing path in the direction they must travel but hey if they don't wander off the track to find the plot not my issue I just let someone else feed them that stuff who gives more a crap about that petty issue. Bottom line is I only really ever just give the command to the text document that holds the information they seek and they can read it or not not my problem after that.

However considering that a lot of the playerbase for us are not used to tekkit or builds what so ever since we moved from Bukkit vanilla to tekkit recently in the past month any of them who have never used something like spout client will get pretty lost if I didn't tell them that it actually existed which is not unreasonable I do have forums telling them this and I tend to just link them to said thread and let them figure it out.

Just for the record I never said I was not happy with the way things are now I just said it could be improved and I think I debated the fact that there was no real deference either way more than anything.

Oh good lord look at the time, 3am I'm going to bed.

[Object]

You're right, it was basically a troll attempt, I prefer to call them my own IQ tests. I assumed you were an idiot, you obviously aren't based on the reply and that's great.

As for the bukkit team, I think there was something going on behind the scenes because when Bukkit first replaced hMod they we're that responsive and quick to update. I remember when it used to take them a long ass time to release an update when MC was updated. Long enough to cause issues with my playerbase.

Then they gradually started getting quicker until magically it seemed they had a release in the works before MC even updated. Obviously they were already working with Mojang at that time, but just not on salary.

[ledhead900]

I remember the move from Hey0 to Bukkit what spiraled that mess was a certain someone pre maturely started a thread boycotting Hey0 wrapper I cant mention who it was because they might be here as well, But I distinctively recall that they started a debate about Bukkit being the NEW thing and Hey0 is going to die hurr derr and there was whole fuss over it and Hey0 pretty much came out and said "well freck you all, you guys a can have the source and you can update this for the rest of time being" This same person was also refused to continue working with Bukkit after I disclosed some information to the leading developer of Bukkit I got of a developer about the person in question putting bad code into the wrapper with the intent to hinder certain plugins and slow them down. This person had a bit of a problem with competition you see and he was pretty arrogant.

This of course turned out to be true and he was booted from the Bukkit Release cycle, Moving on from that Bukkit used to be slow because before they had such huge success they had to manually de-obfuscate the vanilla source code before they could start making any changes. Some good months prior to Mojang picking them up they were in deep talks with Mojang and were given de-obfuscated source versions of the game prior to the release of an upcoming update this why they got quicker and their staff list was growing by this stage as well among other things such as bandwidth and server specs.

But all of this aside my bottom line here was just trying to point out that there may be better ways to go about a release and I intended to discuss it with out acting like the rest of the whiners around here. I understood why they did it, I just had to question it against the other obvious things that arise from doing so.

I do believe with we had a minor version update not too long ago with 3.0.3 going to 3.0.4 and a minor client patch was applied. If these things were true and I am not just imagining that it happened than why is doing the release they do now better then just applying a hotfix later it is like I said nothing will change from the work standpoint of things only that the debates and confusion that surround update time would vanish and they would still be pushing out development builds like they have always done and any person with an IQ and decent server hosting background would go thru the motions regardless how they release the end product its just less burden on everyone if the client was updated as well on release day for the server.

That was all just my opinion but hey they don't have to take any of the advice I have or even care, I mean look at Bukkit and Spout they don't want to associate with eachother anymore because they both wanted different directions, Spout wants the server to send mods to the client and each server can be in control of the client, they are even writing there own engine code for Minecraft and the Vanilla Minecraft files run as a mod on the server, it actually has its own VANILLA folder in the mods directory , I was mucking around with its alpha a day or so ago. While Bukkit on the other hand they want to keep wrapping and Mojang as far as I'm concerned seem to dislike the modding community as they wont even let Bukkit who as you know are now Mojang Staff move their Bukkit project into the Vanilla Server.jar instead they want to keep the two separate and are making Bukkit update the vanilla commands.

If you want to know more about Bukkit and Spout or Vanilla happenings drop me a PM I don't wish to derail this much if I can help it.

I really should be going to bed its now 4am and my post English is getting slacker. I don't think there is a lot more I can or wish to discuss about the flogged to death debate over how to release the finished package that is Tekkit as I said I only wanted to write some thing decent up with decent arguments for and against both methods because from what I have read its just been a case of one fan boy vs another and no real intellectual thinking went on before posting an opinion at least not the the newer stuff I have read recently.

[Object]

Well I'm quite satisfied with your response so since even the OP isn't responding here I think this thread is done and over...again.

[Torezu]

Derail away. This thread went off the rails on its own a while ago.

[Object]

How bout them Blue Jays...

[Torezu]

How bout them Blue Jays...

This team you speak of...I do not recognize it. Is it...professional? Ah, I see, it's from Canada. :twisted:

[Object]

Don't make me sick my pet beaver on you, it has huge teeth, and he gets grumpy when he has a lack of wood, just like me surprisingly.

[ledhead900]

I have more arguments to support my cause lol, CC updated and it is too late to update Tekkit for that now its released as recommended another con to the current method of release . I wish a member of staff would see this thread and take it seriously, I'm not exactly a newbie with servers myself I have been doing it since early alpha of the game.

I am willing to take this battle to the special debate thread if that is what it takes to settle.

Also lol at the above two posts.

[sct]

I have more arguments to support my cause lol, CC updated and it is too late to update Tekkit for that now its released as recommended another con to the current method of release . I wish a member of staff would see this thread and take it seriously, I'm not exactly a newbie with servers myself I have been doing it since early alpha of the game.

I am willing to take this battle to the special debate thread if that is what it takes to settle.

Also lol at the above two posts.

That's a pretty shitty argument considering it would still have to be ported to Bukkit.

edit: And to clarify... there is no debate. You just can't seem to wrap your head around our system.