Tekkit Reed (Infinite) EMC Farm (Variation for banned black hole bands)

[F_Nietzsche]

As the title says, I developed a variation for the Reed EMC farm that uses other methods than the black hole band to collect the reeds. This system is somewhat more efficient than other variations as it can continuously run with 2 pedestals active as well as there being 8 reeds growing rather than 7. Link is as follows:

[gavjenks]

That's great, except that your design will eventually crash the server and/or make a void of infinite lag so that you can't even move in there to collect your stuff. It's producing sugar cane faster than you send it into the pipes, which means entities are multiplying constantly, and soon youll have thousands of lagging entities in a big pile...

Also, it is extremely unlikely that a server admin would ban the black hole band but not the harvest band or gem of eternal density... The vast majority of the time, it's either "EE all allowed" or "All EE rings banned" or "all EE power items banned"

[F_Nietzsche]

If you run 3 pedestals, you WILL get the void of infinite lag, as mentioned in the video. However, 2 pedestals are a stable system. Have tested this on servers and ran for hours with no observable problem. Servers with slightly more lag will occasionally have a slight lag period where the system falls behind, but it quickly remedies itself and continues producing EMC. For servers that this occurs on, you can either accept the lag periods or at the cost of EMC you can reduce down to 1 pedestal (which I have yet to see produce lag).

Furthermore, the Black Hole Band is often a banned item as there is currently a duping glitch that utilizes this item. However, there are not similar problems with the Harvest Goddess Band, nor is there a problem with the Gem of Eternal Density. Server owners that are aware of this will often ban items that allow duping glitches, but not other items. Thus, I am sure there are plenty of servers out there with the Black Hole Band as a banned item, while allowing the others. If I am mistaken, I welcome you to disprove my theory!

[gavjenks]

If you run 3 pedestals, you WILL get the void of infinite lag, as mentioned in the video. However, 2 pedestals are a stable system. Have tested this on servers and ran for hours with no observable problem. Servers with slightly more lag will occasionally have a slight lag period where the system falls behind, but it quickly remedies itself and continues producing EMC. For servers that this occurs on, you can either accept the lag periods or at the cost of EMC you can reduce down to 1 pedestal (which I have yet to see produce lag).

Okay, I apologize, it doesn't use ALLLLL the server resources, just 95% of the server resources, such that the server teeters on the brink of laggy collapse, and nobody else online is able to make anything complicated at the same time as this running...

That's totally responsible. >.>

Furthermore, the Black Hole Band is often a banned item as there is currently a duping glitch that utilizes this item. However, there are not similar problems with the Harvest Goddess Band, nor is there a problem with the Gem of Eternal Density. Server owners that are aware of this will often ban items that allow duping glitches, but not other items. Thus, I am sure there are plenty of servers out there with the Black Hole Band as a banned item, while allowing the others. If I am mistaken, I welcome you to disprove my theory!

Okay. Going through all deluxe servers:

1) disabled catalytic destruction items only.

2) All EE disabled

3) All EE disabled

4) Transmutation tables and alchemy chests banned only.

5) Destruction catalysts banned only.

6) All EE disabled

7) All EE disabled

8) All EE except alch bags and chests disabled.

9) Alchemy bags and collectors banned.

10) All EE disabled

It seems that servers who care about duping generally also consider EE in to BE a duping mod (which is essentially is), and ban it entirely, or remove the parts of it that allow item conversion / generation.

Which makes sense. If you don't want people duping, then why would you give them any ability to use condensers or transmutation tables, which basically dupe stuff, as you have so clearly demonstrated in your video?

[F_Nietzsche]

EE converts the emc of one item into another. 8,000 some odd cobblestone will turn in to a diamond. Last time I checked, that's a lot of work for 1 diamond. However, duping "glitches" allow you to take any item, including red matter and make extra w/o some other sort of input--whether that be time from a machine (power flower, emc generator, etc) or resources of converting one material into another.

Using a duping glitch, I could create thousands of Red matter in only a few minutes. Using this method, or other methods for generating EMC, takes far more time--the goal is only to discover means for reducing the amount of time required without actually stepping into the realm of using glitches.

As for using up all of a server's resources--I have yet to see this. A buddy of mine created an EMC generator like the one observed in the video. I had no problem running mine at the same time, as well as a large scale UU-Matter generator and a Coolant Cell generator. Furthermore, several serves I have recently checked have a list outlining items that are banned. Almost every server I have checked has indeed banned the black hole band (for a duping glitch) while they have not banned the other necessary items.

[gavjenks]

EE converts the emc of one item into another. 8,000 some odd cobblestone will turn in to a diamond. Last time I checked, that's a lot of work for 1 diamond.

Lolwut? The whole point of your thread is a video that clearly outlines step by step how to make a machine that makes a diamond every couple of seconds with NO work! And now you're arguing 3 posts later that using EE requires prohibitive work per diamond?

That is exactly the same thing as duping. A whole bunch of free stuff with no sustained effort. Yes, there is a tiny bit of effort up front, but there is also a tiny bit of effort up front for any duping method (you have to still build that RM furnace or black hole band or whatever). Both methods also require an investment of time.

Some methods may more efficiently dupe items than an EMC generator does, but that doesn't change the fact that they are both still duping.

And in fact, EMC generators have the potential to dupe FASTER than any other duping method. Why? Because what most people call "duping" is usually an exclusively manual task, taking advantage of clicking really fast or thing like that, and cannot be automated. EMC farms are automated, though, so by reinvesting and scaling them up, you will eventually be able to make more RM per minute than any other "duping" method, because humans have a much lower upper limit to speed than a server computer does.

[F_Nietzsche]

Glitch: using bad code for a result that is undesired by the game creators.

This method utilizes game mechanics that, to my knowledge, is not the result of faulty code.

Lolwut? The whole point of your thread is a video that clearly outlines step by step how to make a machine that makes a diamond every couple of seconds with NO work! And now you're arguing 3 posts later that using EE requires prohibitive work per diamond?

Powerflowers do the exact same thing, simply slower. What's the harm in improving upon intended mechanics? For those of you who want to go out and mine every material for your base, quit playing tekkit. Tekkit is meant to mechanize a number of processes so that you do not have to do them yourself. That is simply what I am doing here--mechanizing emc production.

Example: Quarries mine for you. Where is the work?

Collectors create EMC for free. Where is the work?

Condensers turn one item into another so that you do not have to go out and find it yourself. Again, where is the work?

Answer: the work comes upfront from the production of the machine. Some machines are cheaper to build, and often the cheaper it is the less you will get out of it. This method is relatively expensive to build, and you will get quite a bit of return out of it. I fail to see the difference between what I have built and a souped up Powerflower or Quarry being pumped into a condenser.

[F_Nietzsche]

And in fact, EMC generators have the potential to dupe FASTER than any other duping method. Why? Because what most people call "duping" is usually an exclusively manual task, taking advantage of clicking really fast or thing like that, and cannot be automated. EMC farms are automated, though, so by reinvesting and scaling them up, you will eventually be able to make more RM per minute than any other "duping" method, because humans have a much lower upper limit to speed than a server computer does.

It appears that this discussion simply rides on a matter of opinion. You seem to have a problem with what condensers are capable of, thereby any machine that utilizes one is "duping" in your mind. Fair enough, I can see your point. But again, there is a difference between using glitches to dupe, and using intended game mechanics to "dupe" through emc production.

[theprolo]

You ask where the work is with Quarries? They need power. You ask where the work is with power flowers? Aside from cost, there isn't one, which is why they are so widely disabled. They DO however cost quite a lot to set up. A lot of the other EMC generators don't, so they basically take out the only limitations which make EE even remotely fair.

[The Merchant of Menace]

Manual reed farms would probably work better than most auto ones anyway, from a time standpoint.

A reed in a crop block grows insanely fast, as in, I had about 50, and by the time I got from one side to the other, the first side had grown back already.

[gavjenks]

Powerflowers do the exact same thing, simply slower. What's the harm in improving upon intended mechanics?

It appears that this discussion simply rides on a matter of opinion. You seem to have a problem with what condensers are capable of

You guys misunderstand me. I never said I had any PROBLEM with duping items or EE or anything of the sort.

I merely stated that EE is, in fact, an item duplicating mod. Thus, if some hypothetical person has a problem with item duping, then they shouldn't allow EE at all, because its primary purpose is to dupe items, in a way that has the same exact end result as other kinds of duping.

Glitch: using bad code for a result that is undesired by the game creators.

This method utilizes game mechanics that, to my knowledge, is not the result of faulty code.

I don't recall using the word "glitch." I said they were both equivalent forms of duping. One set of activities is based on glitches, yes, that's true. The other set of activities is based on itnended EE mechanics. However, they both dupe items and lead to the same result.

Thus, logically, it doesn't make a ton of sense to ban an EE item for a dupe glitch, but leave in condensers that allow equivalent, non-glitch based duping.

That is my point. And it seems that most major server owners agree with me, whether they use that wording or not. Because those who don't like item duping seem to simply disable all of EE, more often than not. Which is consistent and makes sense.

[GreenWolf13]

Also, quarries are extremely OP, but that's just my opinion. What isn't opinion is that quarries can't exponentially replicate themselves like power flowers or other EMC generation methods can.

[gavjenks]

Also, quarries are extremely OP, but that's just my opinion. What isn't opinion is that quarries can't exponentially replicate themselves like power flowers or other EMC generation methods can.

Sure they can...? What do you mean?

All the materials of quarries are available from quarries. Thus, exponential growth *shrug*

I wouldn't call them generic DUPING machines, like EE, however, since they are restricted to a specific set of things, like clay, wood, dirt, ores, stone, etc. You can't just throw anything in and get more of it. It does effectively dupe ores and diamonds, etc. though.

[GreenWolf13]

Sure they can...? What do you mean?

All the materials of quarries are available from quarries. Thus, exponential growth *shrug*

I wouldn't call them DUPING machines, like EE, however, since they are restricted to a specific set of things, like clay, wood, dirt, ores, stone, etc. You can't just throw anything in and get more of it. It does effectively dupe ores and diamonds, etc. though.

no, because the most diamonds you can get per chunk is 8, and the most chunks you can mine at once is 4, and that goes vert slowly. And to make an exponential quarry system, you need furnaces, autocrafters, and many more blocks besides the quarry. A power flower doesn't need anything to reproduce itself, as the power flower creates the items to make/upgrade a power flower.

[gavjenks]

no, because the most diamonds you can get per chunk is 8, and the most chunks you can mine at once is 4, and that goes vert slowly.

Dude, this is tekkit. Quarry attached to a redpower inchworm and an ender chest, duh. And powered by even something as wimply as an LV solar array (which you can EASILY afford with much less than a single patch of quarrying), it will cut through all of those blocks along the way with blazing speed.

And to make an exponential quarry system, you need furnaces, autocrafters, and many more blocks besides the quarry. A power flower doesn't need anything to reproduce itself, as the power flower creates the items to make/upgrade a power flower.

Dude, once you have the raw materials, it takes literally less than 5 minutes to make like... a stack of quarries. And does not require any autocrafters at all. One fast furnace (RM or induction), and a short line of project tables (one for each kind of gear), and you can crank those things out literally almost as quickly as you can yank collectors out of your condensers.

Actually, let's see... ((Shift click)x4 + esc + click)x5 = 25 clicks and less than one minute to make over a dozen quarries, to be precise.

Basically, you seem to be trying to argue, "Oh well the BC exponential growth requires 40 seconds of manual crafting every 5 hours, whereas the EE system requires 15 seconds of manual inventory shuffling every 5 hours. TOTALLY DIFFERENT!!!11!" No, no not really.

any system that automatically can obtain the raw materials to make more of itself is pretty simple to make into an exponential growth machine. Especially when setting up a new module only requires placing about 10 or fewer blocks. Prime examples being quarries, EE, IC2 UU matter, turtles, and IC2 miners.

EE and UU matter are unique, however, in being able to dupe almost anything, not just a small handful of particular types of blocks.

[andrewdonshik]

Couldn't you use an inchworm drive with a mining well for huger growth? Correct me if I'm wrong.