EU/t vs EU/packet.

[DXWarlock]

Is it just me, or is IC2 power counter intuitive to actual voltage/wattage/amps?

Decided to get in and figure all this out after setting a central power area on my server for distribution to various people for a fee.

The basics of how to wire things, EU loss, batbox/mfe/mfsu EU output size to what its going ot requires, and such I got my head around..how actual Eu/t vs EU/packet works is what seems opposite (or nothing like actually) voltage/amperage.

So a batbox outputs 32EU/t, and furnace uses 2..

Does it output 32EU every 16 ticks in tht case?

Or is it a 32EU packet, that sends 2eu/t?

If so, how does an MFE that does 128EU blow up machines? wouldnt using that mean it just outputs 128EU every 64 ticks? or does it only do packets of between 33-128EU in size?

OR is it basiclly that the 32/128/512 is just a 'requirement number', more of a label of sorts, to decide what can go where..as in, there is A,B,C types of power, and a furnace with no transformer upgrades only accepts 'A' type..

I guess what i'm trying to figure out, is how the 32/128/512 Eu plays in with the actual usage a machine needs..Since its not like a "32 Volt line, with 2 Amp draw to furnace" with both terms being 'eu' it read to me as "32 Volt line, with 2 Volt draw" which is the confusing part.

[Backplague]

As much as i understand the EU system, the EU/t means packet size. If the packet size gets higher than 32 EU, it will blow machines up. Then the thing with getting a lot of power is that you can send as much packets as you want to a machine as long as it can accept them.

Then as the furnace uses 2 EU, it will take 2 EU from the incoming packet, leaving a 30 EU packet going to the rest of the machines. Of course if there are not any more machines, the furnace will of course take the whole packet.

[joe5]

it may make your life easier to imagine that every power storage block can output at an independent maximum of one amp and that it requires transformers or multiple blocks to create a multi-amp flow.

[Omicron]

Yes, Industrialcraft "voltage" does not have anything to do with IRL voltage. It's just a name given to the tiers of energy, if you will.

A Batbox powering a 2 EU/t drawing Macerator will send one 32 EU packet every 16 ticks. You can see the effect by letting the macerator run and looking at the Batbox' energy storage. It will tick down in 32 EU steps, but relatively slowly (just over once per second).

A MFE would power the same Macerator by sending one 128 EU packet every 64 ticks. Meaning, for about 3 seconds, nothing at all would happen, and then the Macerator would explode violently from receiving a larger packet than it is designed to handle.

Wires, too, will melt out of existance if they receive a packet bigger than they can handle.

Generators output a packet once per second, meaning they have the same packet size as their EU/t output rating. A Geothermal Generator produces 20 EU/t, spilt into one 20 EU packet every 20 ticks (=1 second).

[gavjenks]

So a batbox outputs 32EU/t, and furnace uses 2..

Does it output 32EU every 16 ticks in that case?

Or is it a 32EU packet, that sends 2eu/t?

The first one. A batbox ALWAYS outputs packets of exactly 32, unless a single batbox is leading to multiple outputs, in which case, each packet is split evenly.

This is why machines have internal buffers in them (the little lightning bolt meter). The furnace will run on its internal buffer until it has a gap of 32EU, and then it will accept a full packet from the batbox.

Two furnaces will accept a packet of 16 each, if they are both able to accept a packet during one tick.

If so, how does an MFE that does 128EU blow up machines? wouldnt using that mean it just outputs 128EU every 64 ticks? or does it only do packets of between 33-128EU in size?

MFEs similarly ALWAYS output packets of 128 EU (unless splitting amongst two or more valid destinations).

Thus, if you hook up a furnace to an MFE, it will run until it has an empty space of 128 EU, I believe, then it will accept a packet from the MFE, and that packet will be larger than 32, so it will blow up.

OR is it basiclly that the 32/128/512 is just a 'requirement number', more of a label of sorts, to decide what can go where..as in, there is A,B,C types of power, and a furnace with no transformer upgrades only accepts 'A' type..

A machine can accept any size packet (packets can be any size from 1 to 2400 I believe. This can be as a result of splitting, or a result of small generators like solar panels or windmills, etc.). The 32/128/512 are just thresholds, where if an accepted packet is above or below those numbers, it determines whether the machines proceeds to explode or not.

I guess what i'm trying to figure out, is how the 32/128/512 Eu plays in with the actual usage a machine needs..Since its not like a "32 Volt line, with 2 Amp draw to furnace" with both terms being 'eu' it read to me as "32 Volt line, with 2 Volt draw" which is the confusing part.

Don't try to tie anything to real life amps and volts. The IC system does not have an analogue to either current or potential.

EUs = unit of work. The equivalent of EUs in real life is something like joules, or kWh. In-game, it determines how many ores you can macerate, etc. at the end of the day.

EU/t = unit of power. The equivalent of real life Watts, for example. In-game, does just what you would expect: determines how quickly you can complete a given amount of work.

EU/packet = Not really the equivalent of anything in real life, since of course in real life the packet size is always 1 electron. This is just a contrivance that the game has to use to keep lag down. It is supposed to vaguely approximate "voltage" but doesn't really do a very good job of that. It is used in game for two things: 1) To determine if things explode, and 2) to determine energy losses in cables (when it says a glass cable, for instance, loses 1 Eu/40 blocks, that means 1 Eu per packet, so larger packets suffer fewer losses)

Edit: Eu/packet also determines how much damage is dealt when you are electrocuted.

[ampayne2]

This thread got me to understand how the eu works a lot better. A couple questions I have:

How do the packets move along the cable? Do they need a destination beforehand, like redpower tubes, or does each packet travel along the wire until its eu is used up?

If the latter, how do packets go through intersections or splits in the cable?

Also, if a 32 eu packet is sent every 16 ticks to a furnace, does it just bounce back and forth along the cable or does it wait at the furnace?

Actually, i just thought of another possibility, does the packet cover the whole cable at once? That would make the most sense.

[Watchful11]

This thread got me to understand how the eu works a lot better. A couple questions I have:

How do the packets move along the cable? Do they need a destination beforehand, like redpower tubes, or does each packet travel along the wire until its eu is used up?

If the latter, how do packets go through intersections or splits in the cable?

Also, if a 32 eu packet is sent every 16 ticks to a furnace, does it just bounce back and forth along the cable or does it wait at the furnace?

Actually, i just thought of another possibility, does the packet cover the whole cable at once? That would make the most sense.

Packets are sent instantly. If, on one tick, there is space for a packet in one place, the packet will instantly jump from the output to the target. Then it waits and tries again the next tick.

So, say you have a setup like so.

Batbox, Wire, wire, wire

------------macerator, extractor

With the macerator and extractor connected to the second and third wires.

So, both the macerator and the extractor have internal storages, lets assume they both are full.

Lets also assume the batbox is full.

You put a piece of ore in the macerator. It starts draining its storage at 2 EU's every tick.

Each tick, the batbox checks both the macerator and extractor storage to see if there is space for a 32 EU packet.

As soon as 16 ticks have passed, and the macerator has drained 32 EU's, the batbox see's enough space for a packet.

It then sends the 32 EU packet, which instantly arrives at the macerator, filling its internal storage back up.

Then after another 16 ticks, during which the macerator uses another 32 EU's from its storage, the batbox will send another packet.

Ok, now lets put a piece of resin in the extractor.

It starts draining its storage, and as soon as it has space for a 32 EU packet, the batbox sends one.

Now, say that both the macerator and the extractor happen to have space for a 32 EU packet at the same time.

The batbox sees two destinations, and, in the same tick, sends two 16 EU packets, one to each machine.

I actually dont know if it would send the packets if there is space for only 16 in each or if it would wait for 32 in each.

If one of the packets is greater than the machines max, in this case 32, the machine will explode.

[DXWarlock]

AH OK that makes a lot more sense, thanks everyone. I was over complicating it thinking it was a reference to voltage/amps/watt(KVa) type thing.

So to put it simply..its more like a KVa type thing..in stages of size. so 32eu/packets would be energy over time. if its using 2eu, its sending 32 every 16 ticks..(or outputting a pulse every .8 seconds).

So think of the energy as "stacks' of items. and its requesting a 'stack' of energy when the receiver box has room for it. Which means if its a furnace..and missing 32. it 'asks' for a packet from whatever is powering it. if that thing is a MFE, it sends it a 128 packet when it asks..killing it.

So wait, does that mean... theoretically. that if you had a furnace, a long enough wire with loss, and an MFE, that it wouldn't blow it up?

Say you had a MFE, then about (random number here) 200 gold cable. to furnace..the wire could loose enough EU traveling that by the time it got TO the furnace, it was under 32eu and accept it?

Not that Id ever do that, HUGE waste of energy, more an example to see if I understand the concept right.

[Omicron]

Huge waste of resources too, since for far less you could install a transformer upgrade, allowing the machine to accept 128 EU packets without exploding

Good question though, I never tested that particular case out.

[gavjenks]

Yes, if you lost sufficient EUs in the cable, then it would no longer explode.

[DXWarlock]

I also had another question since we are on the subject, never got around to testing it.

Since you can add a batbox every 4 blocks to stop energy loss...would say doing 3 copper-1 gold-3 copper...ect.. counter that? since no one 'section' is over its length for loss?

[Omicron]

Different types of cable generally won't interconnect; you can't put Gold and Copper together.

But even if they do cannect - like, for example EU Splitter or Detector cables, which have a 0.5 EU/block loss and connect to all cable types - you couldn't use that to cancel out energy loss. All the losses are added together, so by adding more lossy cable sections you increase the problem, not counter it.

[gavjenks]

Different types of cable generally won't interconnect; you can't put Gold and Copper together.

Well that part is just wrong. You definitely can put any two cable types together and they will connect.

But even if they do cannect - like, for example EU Splitter or Detector cables, which have a 0.5 EU/block loss and connect to all cable types - you couldn't use that to cancel out energy loss. All the losses are added together, so by adding more lossy cable sections you increase the problem, not counter it.

However, he is correct about this part. It will not save you from energy losses.

What it does is basically if you have

glass glass glass copper copper glass -->

it will do 1/40 + 1/40 + 1/40 + 1/5 + 1/5 + 1/40... and so on. If and when the total sum so far = 1 or more, it will subtract one from the packet being calculated, and then keep counting. The count will reset at a fresh battery or transformer, too.

[Omicron]

They... will? o_O

I could have sworn that I tested this out. Weird. Well, brain derp, I guess.

[Watchful11]

AH OK that makes a lot more sense, thanks everyone. I was over complicating it thinking it was a reference to voltage/amps/watt(KVa) type thing.

So to put it simply..its more like a KVa type thing..in stages of size. so 32eu/packets would be energy over time. if its using 2eu, its sending 32 every 16 ticks..(or outputting a pulse every .8 seconds).

So think of the energy as "stacks' of items. and its requesting a 'stack' of energy when the receiver box has room for it. Which means if its a furnace..and missing 32. it 'asks' for a packet from whatever is powering it. if that thing is a MFE, it sends it a 128 packet when it asks..killing it.

So wait, does that mean... theoretically. that if you had a furnace, a long enough wire with loss, and an MFE, that it wouldn't blow it up?

Say you had a MFE, then about (random number here) 200 gold cable. to furnace..the wire could loose enough EU traveling that by the time it got TO the furnace, it was under 32eu and accept it?

Not that Id ever do that, HUGE waste of energy, more an example to see if I understand the concept right.

Almost, the batbox actually looks for space, then outputs the packet. The receiver doesn't request. But that's a trivial difference.

I don't know when loss calculations are done, so I don't know for sure.