Equivalent Exchange on Tekkit Servers

[Dijego]

Dear server owners,

The past months I have kept track of tekkit smp and I want to tell something to people that are about to start or already run a server.

1) Equivalent Exchange is a mod that is activated by default. The mod allows players to exchange items for other items. For example 4 gold can be turned into 1 diamond. Be aware that this will drastically influence what items are worth on a server.

2) Equivalent Exchange is a mod that is about magic. EE is not for server owners that want players to have a techical oriented stay on your server. EE will create many shortcuts for players to take and they will no longer require steps that they would have to take without this mod.

3) Endgame items in EE are extremely powerful, be aware that newer players will stand no chance against players that already have these items.

So please dear server owners, please be aware of the influences that certain mods can have on your server. So please don't just download a server and gogo, please read what you are starting up.

This post is only directed to people that host a server and are not sure how certain mods affect game balance. I use EE as an example, because in my eyes it is the ugly duck in a set of beautiful mods. I hope people will start thinking about the mods and will be able to balance out what they do not want on their server.

Regards,

Dijego

[s-t-n]

You do realise you can turn it off yourself, don't you? Then your "problem" of there being an easier way to get diamonds for your complex machines than mining out huge tunnel complexes underground would be fixed.

Other people, such as me, really enjoy EE. Why would it be removed from the pack when people who don't like it can just disable it?

[Dijego]

Yes, I do realize that.. But the problem is also people getting used to it. People will miss this mod when they will come on a server that does not have it.

You enjoy it? Is it because it makes the game so easy that it no longer requires any effort?

[xxmikegigsxx]

These are the posts I hate because you are trying to inconvenience the majority so that your "problem" which you can fix by turning off the mod you decide to complain about. Plenty of people really like the mod, so why should we screw them over because of your "problem" when you could turn it off? Answer that.

[jakj]

If people come to your server wanting EE, either 1) give it to them so they stay, or 2) don't give it to them and tell them to leave.

[Dijego]

Put it in a different mod pack, that is all I ask.

[s-t-n]

Yes, I do realize that.. But the problem is also people getting used to it. People will miss this mod when they will come on a server that does not have it.

You enjoy it? Is it because it makes the game so easy that it no longer requires any effort?

Actually, I enjoy it because it mixes the game up. I had a world where I wouldn't mine any naturally formed diamond and had to use Industrialcraft's condenser followed by the transmutation tablet to get the diamonds for my machines. I personally would love to play a server with 0 diamond generation, then if people are walking around in Diamond armour you know they haven't just X-Rayed to get it.

EE unlocks lots of new ways of playing the game on Servers and in Single Player. Just because you personally don't like them doesn't mean other people should be deprived of them.

[Dijego]

These are the posts I hate because you are trying to inconvenience the majority so that your "problem" which you can fix by turning off the mod you decide to complain about. Plenty of people really like the mod, so why should we screw them over because of your "problem" when you could turn it off? Answer that.

The question you want me to answer has nothing to do with my post. I want EE out of the tekkit smp modpack because it doesnt fit there. Turning it off is a solution, but it still suggests that EE has a rightful place in the modpack, while it has nothing to do with the technical additions that mods like redpower and industrial craft give.

I know an incredibly large inventory is nice, but is it good for the game? A game should be balanced, not unstable. EE would be less disturbing if it wasn't just focused on giving players incredible strengths and diminishing all their weaknesses by immense amounts. But it still belongs in a magic modpack and not a technical one.

[jakj]

Put it in a different mod pack, that is all I ask.

But what you are asking is stupid because you can just turn it off. If there is a light switch, why would you remove the light bulb?

[Dijego]

Actually, I enjoy it because it mixes the game up. I had a world where I wouldn't mine any naturally formed diamond and had to use Industrialcraft's condenser followed by the transmutation tablet to get the diamonds for my machines. I personally would love to play a server with 0 diamond generation, then if people are walking around in Diamond armour you know they haven't just X-Rayed to get it.

EE unlocks lots of new ways of playing the game on Servers and in Single Player. Just because you personally don't like them doesn't mean other people should be deprived of them.

Well, but don't you agree it is odd that it is in a technic pack and not a magic pack?

[Dijego]

But what you are asking is stupid because you can just turn it off. If there is a light switch, why would you remove the light bulb?

You don't put a player who can only tennis in a soccer team, or you must be really desperate to get players.

You can put him on the bench, but he shouldnt play.. so why?

Having EE in the modpack suggests that you should use it and that it belongs there. Which in my opinion is wrong.

[jakj]

Having EE in the modpack suggests that you should use it. Which in my opinion is wrong.

So you have no will or self-confidence to decide for yourself what to do? Do you let the world run your life?

Well, but don't you agree it is odd that it is in a technic pack and not a magic pack?

The name of the pack does not imply "technical". It's just a cool name. They've said this.

[Dijego]

I play tekkit without it myself, I just want to let people know what is going in the world. People want overpowered stuff? I mean come on are people really becoming like this? Every game should be so easy that it requires no effort. Notch already made a game with an odd balance, many changes suggest that he had no idea what was going on in the minecraft world. Now other people add stuff that ridiculously changes balance also..

I am just worried with what people want, people want to play without needing any skill. Studies said that games could teach you things, but what do you learn if everything is presented to you on a silver plate with encrusted diamonds?

Do we really need EE to have fun? Does it really increase the amount of fun? Is it really anything else than x-ray without even needing to go underground? (A bit much that last one, but still..)

As you can see I am not just worried about what people throw in modpacks, but I still think that my topic should be posted here. Where people read about it and can do something about it at a smaller scale.

I could and will start a discussion on other forums about the general direction of certain games. Where the audience might as well be a plant.

[jakj]

I play tekkit without it myself, I just want to let people know what is going in the world. People want overpowered stuff? I mean come on are people really becoming like this? Every game should be so easy that it requires no effort. Notch already made a game with an odd balance, many changes suggest that he had no idea what was going on in the minecraft world. Now other people add stuff that ridiculously changes balance also..

I am just worried with what people want, people want to play without needing any skill. Studies said that games could teach you things, but what do you learn if everything is presented to you on a silver plate with encrusted diamonds?

Do we really need EE to have fun? Does it really increase the amount of fun? Is it really anything else than x-ray without even needing to go underground? (A bit much that last one, but still..)

As you can see I am not just worried about what people throw in modpacks, but I still think that my topic should be posted here. Where people read about it and can do something about it at a smaller scale.

I could and will start a discussion on other forums about the general direction of certain games. Where the audience might as well be a plant.

It's called "options". This is the world's most popular full-freedom sandbox computer game, where you can literally do anything. It's basically all games in one: You can fight monsters and level up, you can build nuclear reactors, you can cast magic spells, you can become a super hero, you can make guns and go into stealth-shooter mode, you can pilot aircraft, tanks, and boats, and whateverelsethefuck you want to do.

And you're acting like a crime is being committed by having yet another option in there that people can turn on or off at will?

Not to mention the fact that there are tens of thousands of Minecraft players who enjoy EE, and even some successful Tekkit servers with EE on. So you clearly are wrong to state that this is bad. You can dislike it, but it is not bad.

[DragnHntr]

You don't put a player who can only tennis in a soccer team, or you must be really desperate to get players.

You can put him on the bench, but he shouldnt play.. so why?

This makes no sense whatsoever and I have no idea how it relates to the argument you are trying to make.

Having EE in the modpack suggests that you should use it and that it belongs there. Which in my opinion is wrong.

Having EE as an OPTIONAL mod in the modpack suggests that it is a cool mod that many people can and do enjoy. Tekkit/technic are not all-inclusive mod packs with everything that you could possible want and nothing you don't. They are sort of a platform for people to get started playing with mods. If there are mods you want to see added, then you can add them, if there are mods you do not want to use, by all means disable them. Asking for an excellent mod that many enjoy to be removed for the sole reason that YOU do not like it... well you must have a very high opinion of yourself.

Many people do enjoy playing with EE disabled, including myself. Asking for it to be removed because, what, you are afraid nobody will want to play on YOUR server when there are others with EE enabled? That is quite frankly, ridiculous.

I play tekkit without it myself, I just want to let people know what is going in the world.

Thank heavens we have you here to tell us what is going on in the world.

People want overpowered stuff? I mean come on are people really becoming like this? blah blah blah...

Allow ME to tell YOU what is going on in the world. People like different things. Some people like a challenge, some people like it to feel like it is challenging when they are not really in danger, and some people like no challenge whatsoever. Some people like to fight things, some people like to build things, and some people like to accumulate things. I could go on and on, but my point is that you are trying to tell other people how they should have fun. Who made you the president of Fun?

Do we really need EE to have fun? Does it really increase the amount of fun?

Do we really need Minecraft to have fun? I think you should shut it off and go outside and play. How does that make you feel when someone tells you how you should enjoy your leisure time?

I could and will start a discussion on other forums about the general direction of certain games. Where the audience might as well be a plant.

Again, what the fuck are you talking about?

[Dijego]

I definitely dislike it, that is what I am saying. I give arguments why I dislike it and why I think it should be removed from the modpack.

Ofcourse there are many succesful servers with EE, people want to go easymode and do everything without any trouble. I put up this topic so people think twice before they start using it.

[jakj]

I definitely dislike it, that is what I am saying. I give arguments why I dislike it and why I think it should be removed from the modpack.

Ofcourse there are many succesful servers with EE, people want to go easymode and do everything without any trouble. I put up this topic so people think twice before they start using it.

You gave reasons you dislike it; You gave no reasons why it should be removed. ProTip: "Reasons" are the same root as the word "reasoning", as in, try some. Give an actual REASON that makes sense that it should be removed. "Because I dislike it" is not a reason. "Because I don't think people should use it" is not a reason.

All you've done is sounded somehow arrogant and elitist by insulting anyone who does want to play with EE, as if they're beneath you or somehow lesser beings. You also say "so people think twice" as if you were somehow pointing out a novel viewpoint and educating the masses to the errors they're committing.

[Yuriy]

...

I have considered everything from EE and my conclusion is:

Remove Equivalent Exchange from Tekkit.

^{So please, good server owners.. turn it off completely.}

So you want it removed from Tekkit and turned off everywhere to suit your asinine vendetta against imbalance from combining multiple mods...have you lost the plot?

If you want to play without it, join a server that has it disabled. Why in the hell should you dictate what I run on my server?

You may make a case for your perception of EE's imbalance (for which several threads exist already so post there next time), but why we should be denied the use of a great mod because you think it's OP is so asinine it's laughable.

You want to discuss game balance, fine. But EE does have some place in Tekkit even if you don't enjoy playing it. Maybe it'll be balanced differently in the future... He'll, I wish we could just configure all options as server owners to introduce individual server balancing to our preference. However, I'm not about to go bark orders at the new mod developer and I'm content with its current state for the time being.

[Dijego]

I'll redo my first post. Since apparently I offended some people. This was not my intention. I wanted to bring awareness to what people are adding to their servers.

[jakj]

I'll redo my first post. Since apparently I offended some people. This was not my intention. I wanted to bring awareness to what people are adding to their servers.

You still are operating under the assumption that people are too stupid to know what is running on their servers and only you stand in the pale mist to enlighten them. (This may actually be true, because there are a lot of stupid server admins, but they don't tend to be the popular servers, so it really matters little.)

What you still have failed to do is provide a REASON to remove it from Tekkit when you can turn it off on a server-by-server basis. Server X having EE on in no way affects server Y having it off.

Provide a logical, reasoned argument about why it needs to be removed when you can just turn it off, or shut the hell up.

[attacker1983]

HINT UR A FAGGOT FUCK OFF BEING A TROLL AND GET A LIFE TECHNIC IS FINE AS IT IS SO GF TROLLING FUCKPIG

[Dijego]

HINT UR A FAGGOT FUCK OFF BEING A TROLL AND GET A LIFE TECHNIC IS FINE AS IT IS SO GF TROLLING FUCKPIG

Uhm..

I believe your capslock is still on, anyways have a nice day.

[Dijego]

Provide a logical, reasoned argument about why it needs to be removed when you can just turn it off, or shut the hell up.

I gave you the reasons. It is overpowered, hardly technical and it causes confusion if it is just turned off and not entirely removed.

This is my opinion, if you disagree with that.. I am fine with that.

You still are operating under the assumption that people are too stupid to know what is running on their servers and only you stand in the pale mist to enlighten them. (This may actually be true, because there are a lot of stupid server admins, but they don't tend to be the popular servers, so it really matters little.)

So you say that servers that are less popular don't matter? That is not elitist?

Anyways, it seems you finally seem to get who I am directed the post at.

I know there are plenty of servers that deliberately keep the mod in, but they should do whatever they want as long as they can reason why they keep it in. The answer being: People enjoy it.

That is nice and I am happy people enjoy the mod, but in my opinion it does not belong on a server where the goal is to have a nice a technical stay.

[freakachu]

HINT UR A FAGGOT FUCK OFF BEING A TROLL AND GET A LIFE TECHNIC IS FINE AS IT IS SO GF TROLLING FUCKPIG

you know what? get bent. forever.

[Yuriy]

...

So you say that servers that are less popular don't matter? That is not elitist?

Anyways, it seems you finally seem to get who I am directed the post at.

I know there are plenty of servers that deliberately keep the mod in, but they should do whatever they want as long as they can reason why they keep it in. The answer being: People enjoy it.

That is nice and I am happy people enjoy the mod, but in my opinion it does not belong on a server where the goal is to have a nice a technical stay.

Actually, it's just accurate. In an environment in which servers are decentralized and people host their own, most people couldn't care in the slightest what other servers are doing. With the diversity of server people operate, why would you care so much about servers on which you do not play.

What you fail to grasp is that maybe not every server wants a technical play style, maybe they just want options. If I wanted to (and could configure) a server to run Tekkit, TC2, mo creatures, better dungeons, etc (I know they're SSP) I would combine the tech and the magic to give myself more options on what I wanted to do. In some of my builds, I develop IC2, BC, and RP machines alongside my EE stuff and sometimes I will build an alchemy lab far away from my industrial-style factories.

Nevertheless, how I choose to enjoy the game really isn't any of your concern similarly to how your distaste for EE isn't much of mine.

I think Jakj said it best when he asked you to provide reasoning for your argument because, contrary to what you may believe, you have failed to provide any substantial argument to support your request for the mod's removal.