THE OS HOLY WARS! and why they need to be over.

[miniboxer]

i was bored and looking up linux vs windows benchmark tests on youtube when i came across this video:

http://bit.ly/Hw8nsz

the video itself was misleading, but there was not much to rage about. the thing that really pissed me off was that some asshole had the nerve to call all linux users basement-dwelling nerds. so naturally, i fucked him up. if you are wondering, i am hello2u08 in the posts. another thing he did was call linux LiEnucks (seriously), and then said linux was everything that it wasn't and windows was, bloated, slow, and an obnoxious interface, and is only for retards.

[Arkalius]

Re: so sick of youtube fags

Two questions.

What does this have to do with minecraft?

How is it you determined the individual's sexual orientation based on his opinions of different operating systems?

[Cheap Shot]

Re: so sick of youtube fags

This is a stupid thread, and getting into huge arguments on youtube is the furthest thing from impressive there is, but I'll move it to the proper board anyway.

[linkthegamer]

Re: so sick of youtube fags

i was bored and looking up linux vs windows benchmark tests on youtube when i came across this video:

http://bit.ly/Hw8nsz

the video itself was misleading, but there was not much to rage about. the thing that really pissed me off was that some asshole had the nerve to call all linux users basement-dwelling nerds. so naturally, i fucked him up. if you are wondering, i am hello2u08 in the posts. another thing he did was call linux LiEnucks (seriously), and then said linux was everything that it wasn't and windows was, bloated, slow, and an obnoxious interface, and is only for retards.

As Cheapshot said this is a stupid topic and arguments on youtube are dumb. I mean youtube is a place where people will say Buch is a "F__King theft." because they first heard a part of one of his symphonies in a Dr. Dre song. Every thing you like on the internet has a stereo type. I should know, I have a ton of them against me on the web.

Also misinformation on OSes is nothing new. Here is the Internet's guide to OSes:

Linux = Basement nerd elitist

Windows = Idiotic conformist

Mac = Artistic A-Hole

Just don't read comment on anything you don't want torn to pieces. Youtube, Digg, and Slashdot are all prone to the OS holy wars in the comments.

Also Fucking people up makes Linux users look like elitist a-holes and that f-word in the topic title is offense to homosexuals on youtube.

[Naturam]

Re: so sick of youtube fags

If linux made my computer so efficient that it generated power instead if using it and made the USB ports dispense beer. I still wouldn't use it if it can't run the games I like.

Yeah I know Linux and Mac users like to rage on windows because they have some religious affiliation with their Operating systems and setups but if Linux or Mac were so great that they rendered Windows redundant then there wouldn't be hundreds of programs out there for emulating Windows on Linux and Mac.

I mean when was the last time someone came asking for a way emulate OSX or Linux in Windows? They don't. Because they already runs windows and so they're set.

The very fact that Linux users need so much validation proves how little they think of Linux in the first place. If Linux was the answer then they would just use it and be happy (Like most windows users) but instead they make these shitty videos and start attacking windows users.

[Cheap Shot]

Re: so sick of youtube fags

Buch is a "F__King theft

----

Also Fucking people up makes Linux users look like elitist a-holes and that f-word in the topic title is offense to homosexuals on youtube.

I agree and fixed it.

No need to be soryr for the swearing though. One Bad ASS Cat knows where it's at. Swears are fine. Fucking Buch!!!!

[linkthegamer]

Re: so sick of youtube f-....arts. <3

I agree and fixed it.

No need to be soryr for the swearing though. One Bad ASS Cat knows where it's at. Swears are fine. Fucking Buch!!!!

Good to know. Fucker be reaching into the future and stealing Dre's beats (no not the headphones).

If linux made my computer so efficient that it generated power instead if using it and made the USB ports dispense beer. I still wouldn't use it if it can't run the games I like.

Yeah I know Linux and Mac users like to rage on windows because they have some religious affiliation with their Operating systems and setups but if Linux or Mac were so great that they rendered Windows redundant then there wouldn't be hundreds of programs out there for emulating Windows on Linux and Mac.

I mean when was the last time someone came asking for a way emulate OSX or Linux in Windows? They don't. Because they already runs windows and so they're set.

The very fact that Linux users need so much validation proves how little they think of Linux in the first place. If Linux was the answer then they would just use it and be happy (Like most windows users) but instead they make these shitty videos and start attacking windows users.

I don't want to get in a fight okay. The reason WINE (and it's payed derivatives) exist is because Windows has the biggest market share and uses proprietary code. Most programs are made for Windows only (like games) and their is just no FOSS replacement for some (photoshop, MS Office's higher end functions).

Also there is Cygwin, it emulates linux in windows. Also andlinux (no i did not forget a space, that is the name) and colinux which let you run linux in windows (32bit windows at least).

I do agree some are insecure and do make shitty attack videos, but windows users are not completely innocent. Fanatical windows users will find linux videos and say &quot;Linux is fucking shit you stupid geeks. Aero kicks Compiz ass&quot;. so it is not just Linux users attacking windows for e-peen points.

In the end here is my motto: &quot;Use what ever you want and STFU about it.&quot; Vi or Emac, 360 or PS3, AMCO or Technic, just STFU and be happy. If I want to use X then let me, Y has it's own sites, I will hang with other Xer and you can hang with other Yer and we can all be happy. At least that is how I see it,

Note: I will occasionally make fun of windows, not because I hate it but because I find it fun.

[Grindle2000]

Re: so sick of youtube f-....arts. <3

I use both Windows (XP and Win7) and Linux (Ubuntu and Mint) because i like to experiment with different things , I also like to see what makes different distros work and how they differ.

I have never understood why people rage on one or the other , they both have good and bad points .

Use what you want and like or do like me and use all of them (working on setting up a Mac now ) and have fun with it.

[linkthegamer]

Re: so sick of youtube f-....arts. <3

I use both Windows (XP and Win7) and Linux (Ubuntu and Mint) because i like to experiment with different things , I also like to see what makes different distros work and how they differ.

I have never understood why people rage on one or the other , they both have good and bad points .

Use what you want and like or do like me and use all of them (working on setting up a Mac now ) and have fun with it.

They rage because this is the internet.

I have wanted to triboot but I don't have a mac and Hackintosh just doesn't seem to cut it on my computer,

[Jay?]

Re: so sick of youtube f-....arts. <3

When are people going to realize that ever OS has its upsides and downsides. It seems like this applies to every goddamn flame war (except the starwars/startrek vs twilight war. that's totally justified)

OSes, browsers, computer manufacturers, game developers, consoles, These things come in varieties for a reason. no the perfect product doesn't exist, so different products are made with different focuses.

[BurningCake]

Re: so sick of youtube f-....arts. <3

Face it guys: The Internet is a tool for arguing.

[linkthegamer]

~!

Face it guys: The Internet is a tool for arguing.

IS NOT! (Nah just joking, it is.)

[Nphyx]

Re: so sick of youtube f-....arts. <3

Why rage about incompetent computer users? It's so much more fun to laugh quietly as you watch them struggle to do simple things, pay for things you get for free, and have their shit broken and stolen constantly. I don't know why my computer is so slow, it was fast when I bought it! I don't know why my THIRD World of Warcraft account got all its stuff stolen! I don't know why this website doesn't work! I don't know why I should have to pay 60 dollars a year for antivirus! I don't know where the send/receive button is in the new Outlook! I don't know where all these porn links came from! I don't know why there are so many toolbars in my browser! I don't know how my boss/parents/overbearing government can keep spying on my hot chat sex! I don't know why I have to reinstall Windows -again-!

Har har har. You don't talk to these people until they finally get fed up with it, stow the bullshit and ask you for answers. Then you tell them things they don't want to hear and 90% of the time they bitch and whine and go back to whatever idiotic habits they already had because change is hard.

Anyway the whole desktop operating system argument is over. Mobile devices are becoming the computing platform of choice and, like the entire rest of the computing/electronics world besides desktops (/laptops), the majority of them already run some variant of *nix. PC gaming is slowly dying too; it's getting harder and harder to find a game that even has native PC controls or takes advantage of the graphical capabilities of high-end gaming rigs because they're all designed first for consoles. I guarantee you none of this shit is going to matter in 10 years. The only people who will spend more time on a traditional desktop computer than on a mobile device or some other gadget/console/appliance are the people writing the code for those other devices. When that time comes you'll wonder why you bothered arguing about it. Arguing with computer illiterates about operating systems is like arguing with 3-year-olds about, well, anything. It doesn't matter that they're objectively wrong and you know it. You loose by participating.

[jakj]

Re: so sick of youtube f-....arts. <3

Bach? Really?

Really?

...

They genuinely thought that Bach stole a melody from Dr. Dre?

..................._{really? :-(}

[BurningCake]

Re: so sick of youtube f-....arts. <3

Mobile devices are becoming the computing platform of choice...

To be honest, mobile platforms will not be replacing laptops and desktops anytime soon. Really, mobile devices only are significant in the consumer market (and of course in their traditional small-time communications role), and are vastly insuperior to modern processor/monitor rigs.

^^My ten cents.

[jakj]

Re: so sick of youtube f-....arts. <3

insuperior

Inferior.

And these &quot;platform X is the platform of the future&quot; stuff is stupid anyway. If you buy a drill, you don't say &quot;omg fuck hammers I got this drill&quot;.

[linkthegamer]

Re: so sick of youtube f-....arts. <3

Bach? Really?

Really?

...

They genuinely thought that Bach stole a melody from Dr. Dre?

..................._{really? :-(}

Twas an exaggeration, someonr did think imogen heap stole from jason derulo though.

[Nethaufer]

Re: so sick of youtube f-....arts. <3

There is NO WAY that phones will surpass any kind of common day computer in the near future. Developers will be hard pressed to fit the same kind of technology that a computer has in a platform that is smaller than a square foot. Also, keep in mind that by the time they can do that, there will be even more powerful stuff for the computer that they won't be able to do in a phone.

Also, I highly doubt companies will keep focus on consoles. There are plenty of developers still working on games for the computers, and all the good ones will make a separate computer version that utilizes it. Kinda like what Valve did with Portal 2. Also, Valve will never abandon the computer players. You can be sure on that.

[Nphyx]

Re: so sick of youtube f-....arts. <3

To be honest, mobile platforms will not be replacing laptops and desktops anytime soon. Really, mobile devices only are significant in the consumer market (and of course in their traditional small-time communications role), and are vastly insuperior to modern processor/monitor rigs.

^^My ten cents.

Your ten cents are incorrect, sorry ^^ You can check the statistics and the trends yourself. Something could happen, something could change, yes, but some stats are already suggesting the 50% point is passed in regard to web browsing which is the primary non-work-related activity done on PCs. The same point passed many years ago regarding gaming.

In regard to speed, rather than trends or statistics:

It doesn't matter that PCs are faster. The speed doesn't matter to 99% of use cases anymore. Even chintzy little bargain smartphones have the power to render full screen HD video, simple 3d games, browse the (real) web, communicate via email, text, voice and video, and view (if not edit) most common document formats, and do most of the other things that people require from their computers. Many people don't grasp the implications of Moore's Law, so let me lay it out for you: in 10 years we will have gone through about 7 iterations of Moore's Law. Mobile devices (as well as workstations) will then have 128 times the computing power (actually price and energy performance) they do today. They are already sufficient for most computing tasks (which could not have been said 10 or 20 years ago, when even your standard PC was barely sufficient for the things most people wanted to do like document editing and rich media).

(Edit: by comparison, your typical mobile device is about 2-3 iterations, or 4-8x, behind in price performance compared to a desktop)

The most likely scenario, and the one tech companies are gearing up toward, is that mobile devices are going to be *the* thing within a few years (thus, for instance, Windows 8 being completely overhauled and retooled with touch interfaces in mind and ditching the mouse and keyboard centric environment it has been using for 20 years now, Apple throwing most of its weight behind iOS rather than Mac OS, and even desktop Linux developers like Canonical retooling for mobile). That which requires more computing power than a mobile device can handle will be done in compute clouds with mobile devices behaving like thin clients, because it's far more cost effective. Although it's hard to imagine needing 128x the compute power of a modern desktop for common tasks, it could be that &quot;common tasks&quot; expands far beyond what we can conceive of today. Having many multiples of that available on-demand (thanks to the scalability of cloud computing) with less time and trouble than it is to boot up a desktop is going to lure people quickly away from running machines in-house at the consumer or even small or mid enterprise level.

There are a few smaller questions still in the air, like whether augmented reality and HUDs will take off, and whether HTML5 will become a universal application platform or whether developers and consumers will stick with native apps, and whether WebGL + javascript is going to be viable for gaming (especially before it gets eclipsed by cloud-based rendering, as seems possible).

Anyway, I'm not trying to argue, I'm trying to educate. Like I said, many things can happen in 10 years (like global nuclear war) that would reverse the apparent trends. If you don't believe me (and the people I rely on who make a whole lot of money successfully predicting these things) wait 5 years and reevaluate.

Edit edit:

Also, I highly doubt companies will keep focus on consoles. There are plenty of developers still working on games for the computers, and all the good ones will make a separate computer version that utilizes it. Kinda like what Valve did with Portal 2. Also, Valve will never abandon the computer players. You can be sure on that.

With services like OnLive growing, they don't need to worry about the only relevant issues with consoles (the 5+ year freeze on computing power). 5x as many console games are being sold as PC games at the *end* of the current console generation, and that doesn't even account for mobile games. Despite the fact that a typical gaming rig is now 8+ times as powerful as an Xbox 360 or Playstation 3 game sales for PCs are on the same downward trend they've been for a decade now. How much longer do you think it will be before the numbers don't even justify a PC *port* of AAA games? The people calling the shots don't give a crap about sentimentality or loyalty to PC gamers, they care whether PC gamers will buy enough games to overcome the cost of development and turn a profit. When the numbers dwindle to the point where it costs more to port the games than it does to blow off the users, the games will start disappearing. The main saving grace for PC gamers right now is that it doesn't take much to port from XBox 360 to Windows PC thanks to a shared programming environment. If they're lucky it will stay that way for a while longer, since Microsoft is committed to it. Ironically, XBox 360 is saving PC gaming.

Inferior.

And these &quot;platform X is the platform of the future&quot; stuff is stupid anyway. If you buy a drill, you don't say &quot;omg fuck hammers I got this drill&quot;.

True to some extent, but there is also the market forces factor. Once a use-case becomes so narrow that you can't turn a profit by serving it it simply doesn't happen anymore. There are some neat things happening that could shake it up, not in the least the resurgence of indie game development thanks to the &quot;long tail&quot; market and the explosion of the hacker/makerspace community, but it's hard to say what that means in terms of overall tech trends. Most of the people who have serious money and future success riding on successfully predicting the future of technology are in line with what I'm saying here. Hell, when *Microsoft* starts making serious changes to one of its core products you know the writing is on the wall.

[Nethaufer]

Re: so sick of youtube f-....arts. <3

Okay, so phones are trending. But a trend never sticks. Eventually it will go down, or it will go back up. And the fact that PC game sales are going down may just be because everyone who wants a PC has bought the game they want, and they don't need to purchase anything else to validate the existence of their chosen platform. A good example of something like this would be TF2. Valve noticed that no-one was buying TF2 anymore, and they reasoned that everyone who was going to buy has bought it, so they made it f2p. Also, a note on f2p games, consoles can't do them. At least not yet. And it will never cost more to port a game to the PC considering the fact that GAMES ARE MADE ON A COMPUTER. They naturally work properly on a computer. Why do you think it's so easy to make ROMs of console games? Sure, a few small edits are needed, but otherwise they work. I think it actually costs more time, and likewise, money, to make a game for the console. It's also easier to get your game out on a computer as well. Sure, computers may not get many AAA games, but it will always have indie games, games which are almost always something new and innovative. Sure, there are bad ones, but there are plenty of good ones that will be amazing. I can think of one example that everyone knows about: Minecraft.

Trends are trends for a reason, they show changes over time, and because of that, aren't always a concrete fact that something is going to decline in popularity, or even for something that is going to rise in popularity. Computers will never fade away because they are easy to program for, and the additional fact that they do more than just be a gaming platform. AAA titles will always be available for computers because its not a console game to a computer, it's a computer game to a console. Finally, the computer will be the easiest way for a developer who wants to get a start on something, because it's easy, and relatively safe.

[Nphyx]

Re: so sick of youtube f-....arts. <3

At least not yet. And it will never cost more to port a game to the PC considering the fact that GAMES ARE MADE ON A COMPUTER. They naturally work properly on a computer. Why do you think it's so easy to make ROMs of console games? Sure, a few small edits are needed, but otherwise they work.

Ouch. You don't know anything about programming, do you (point: I do it for a living). If this is what you think, and what your view of things is shaped by, I'm sorry but you're really not qualified to speak on the subject. I suggest Googling yourself a short education on the subjects of programming environments, processor architecture, instruction sets, cross-platform development, and emulation before you say anything more. I'm also kind of sad that someone as well spoken as you (by internet standards) is so thoroughly ignorant about how this works What do they teach you kids in school these days! It's been 20 years since the internet, this shit should be as fundamental as geography and civics and all the stuff that sits a level above the basics.

[Nethaufer]

Re: so sick of youtube f-....arts. <3

My other points still stand.

Also, I shouldn't have used absolutes. Just kinda omit all the nevers I used in there and instead place 'you are stupid if you think otherwise' in instead. Okay, joking there too. Just say will probably not.

[Nphyx]

Re: so sick of youtube f-....arts. <3

Trends can change, yes, but I'm not talking about &quot;fads&quot;, I'm talking about &quot;market momentum&quot;, the kind of thing that market analysts use in order to steer the direction of major companies. To some extent perception of market trends is reality because when gigantic companies forecast the future they invest in it to the exclusion of other things, and that shapes what choices consumers have. When major game publishers say &quot;stop making PC games, mobiles and consoles are the future&quot; you can bet 2 years down the road you're going to have more mobile and console games to choose from than PC games, and that's going to influence your hardware buying decisions, which just further reinforces their commitment to consoles and mobiles. That's what has been happening lately, anyway.

Indie games like Minecraft are definitely important, but it may surprise you to know that it's generally easier to develop them for consoles and the web than it is for PCs for a variety of reasons. PCs are a pain in the ass to work with even in the modern age because they're not a homogenous environment. You've got 3 different versions of windows, Mac (if you care, same for Linux), 2 different instruction sets (x86 and x64, and really a couple others but nobody makes games for them anymore/yet) 2 different 3d rendering layers each with huge variations in specific feature support based on user-selected hardware, obscene numbers of different individual hardware configurations each with their own issues that have to be accounted for, etc. etc. Hardware abstraction layers make some of this easier, and languages like Java which run in virtual machines also make it easier at the cost of performance, but it's certainly not as straightforward as a guarantee that 100% of the people you're writing code for run the *exact same environment*.

Mobile devices share some of the above issues but their APIs and the design patterns that have evolved over the years help to ease the pain a bit (now the really big issue is dealing with the huge range of performance and screen sizes, not so much the architecture).

The biggest implication of these trends, however, is that a new generation of gamers is not being raised with PC gaming. For example, my kid spends more time on my android tablet and XBox than on the PC. For him the mobile computing environment is the default paradigm, and the computer is a funny old thing like a typewriter is to us. The only thing it's good for is Starcraft and Minecraft, heh.

Anyway like I said, if you don't believe me, wait 5 years. In 2017 if the global economy hasn't collapsed or the United States or India or Israel hasn't triggered World War III we'll talk again. ;)

[linkthegamer]

Re: so sick of youtube f-....arts. <3

Trends can change, yes, but I'm not talking about &quot;fads&quot;, I'm talking about &quot;market momentum&quot;, the kind of thing that market analysts use in order to steer the direction of major companies. To some extent perception of market trends is reality because when gigantic companies forecast the future they invest in it to the exclusion of other things, and that shapes what choices consumers have. When major game publishers say &quot;stop making PC games, mobiles and consoles are the future&quot; you can bet 2 years down the road you're going to have more mobile and console games to choose from than PC games, and that's going to influence your hardware buying decisions, which just further reinforces their commitment to consoles and mobiles. That's what has been happening lately, anyway.

Indie games like Minecraft are definitely important, but it may surprise you to know that it's generally easier to develop them for consoles and the web than it is for PCs for a variety of reasons. PCs are a pain in the ass to work with even in the modern age because they're not a homogenous environment. You've got 3 different versions of windows, Mac (if you care, same for Linux), 2 different instruction sets (x86 and x64, and really a couple others but nobody makes games for them anymore/yet) 2 different 3d rendering layers each with huge variations in specific feature support based on user-selected hardware, obscene numbers of different individual hardware configurations each with their own issues that have to be accounted for, etc. etc. Hardware abstraction layers make some of this easier, and languages like Java which run in virtual machines also make it easier at the cost of performance, but it's certainly not as straightforward as a guarantee that 100% of the people you're writing code for run the *exact same environment*.

Mobile devices share some of the above issues but their APIs and the design patterns that have evolved over the years help to ease the pain a bit (now the really big issue is dealing with the huge range of performance and screen sizes, not so much the architecture).

The biggest implication of these trends, however, is that a new generation of gamers is not being raised with PC gaming. For example, my kid spends more time on my android tablet and XBox than on the PC. For him the mobile computing environment is the default paradigm, and the computer is a funny old thing like a typewriter is to us. The only thing it's good for is Starcraft and Minecraft, heh.

Anyway like I said, if you don't believe me, wait 5 years. In 2017 if the global economy hasn't collapsed or the United States or India or Israel hasn't triggered World War III we'll talk again.

Will be interesting to see how this all plays out. Also waiting to see if Microsoft vision for 2019 pans out any. We are nearing a very shaky ground right now in this topic. Going to miss the computer if it dies out. Consoles and Phones are on a trend of being more restrictive in what you can do. However like some article have stated, 80% or so of what the average person does is becoming independent of what platform they use, so long as that platform can access the web. Also I suppose while computer are more upgradable that people will still want to use or develop for consoles/phones as they have, as state, a homogenous environment, and provide smoother experiences, it is the same reason people find macs more stable and reliable, they have a limited hardware spectrum and those only a few drivers have to be coded and most every configuration can be tested.

[Nphyx]

Re: so sick of youtube f-....arts. <3

I think Microsoft is out of the running personally (if you're talking about that little fantasy tech demo they released a while ago with the microsoft-branded smart gadgets). I think they're way too crufty and entrenched in their culture and way of doing things to keep up with the changes in the market. I also think it's absurd to believe that we'll ever return to a paradigm where a single company is providing a majority (let alone the totality) of services.

Edit: I should clarify, I mean out of the running for mobile devices and probably for consumer OS in general (we'll see how Windows 8 tablets do). They're not going anywhere any time soon even if it means pulling an Oracle and patent trolling for two decades.

When the market shift is over the reason it will have happened is that people genuinely don't miss the old way of doing things, because the new way is so much better in so many ways. So I'm guessing you might not miss desktops as much as you think, much like I don't think people are going to miss physical media - books, movie &amp; music discs, etc as much as they think. But we'll see. Every individual is different. Some of us just like old-timey things for nostalgia or personal preference. I know a young writer who *still* uses a typewriter despite the obvious objective advantages of modern document editing, just because he likes the experience of it. That doesn't force anybody to support his typewriter though, nor will people keep making new typewriters for people like him (I don't know if anybody is making them anymore as a matter of fact, and parts are getting harder to find). Lots of people still use feature phones or run old versions of their operating systems too even though nobody supports them or provides new software for them anymore.