Asshole not happy with our job performance. This close to firing us! Oh no!

[BrickedKeyboard]

Problems :

1. Several controls overlap with each other out of the box. It would have taken all of 5 seconds to configure the client so that quantum run doesn't conflict with zoom, sort inventory doesn't conflict with NEI's recipe lookup, etc. I was very unimpressed to see that this very basic step was not done, and server admins don't have the power

2. Certain mods are left configured to leave massive exploits in by default. While I think that the tekkit pack should leave fine tuning to the server admins, it should not come out of the box with massive exploits or ridiculous gamebreaking bugs enabled.

Examples :

1. Equivalent exchange allows you to duplicate all machinery in the mod (and therefore resource production of everything in the game) every 4.5 hours. That is, a collector + condensor can dupe itself in 4.5 hours of time. This means that in 1 week, a player who uses chunk loaders or places their collector array near the spawn point could have 68 billion times as much resource production as when they started.

Production of resources via EMC should be balanced to be comparable to the speed of production via mass fabrication. With mass fabrication, it takes about 4 days for a solar panel to make enough UU-matter to duplicate itself. Thus, in a week of 24/7 play, a player would have ~4 times as much production as they started with, rather than 68 billion.

I'm not saying that perfect balance should be the goal of the pack, but 68 billion is so ludicrious that leaving the mod set to default settings is like leaving an exploit to give players god mode.

2. You can get double the bronze by combining copper and tin ingots in the crafting table. Since bronze is not in short supply, this is a minor exploit, but the forestry author never intended to have this recipe enabled when industrialcraft is enabled.

3. You can make oil buckets for 50,000 EU/bucket, refine it to fuel for about 20,000 EU, and then burn the bucket of fuel for ~600,000 EU. This "energy duping" can be easily fixed by adjusting the power converters config file. It should be fixed by default.

4. The water strainer is left enabled by default, when it destroys the tick-rate of servers.

And so on. Again, I'm not saying that every mod should be rewritten (though it certainly would help a ton) but a few minor tweaks would make this pack far more usable.

[ZombieTwiglet]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

While there are some major balance problems with the combination of mods in the Technic/Tekkit pack, just getting them all to work together is a job and a half in itself without having to tweak the settings to improve balance of mods that were not made to work together (in a balance sense).

Rather than just say how broken you think it is why not get involved and either share your config tweaks so the community can benefit or offer your services to the team? These guys put this together and spend a whole load of money on bandwidth (1TB a day was the latest I've heard) and don't ask for a penny in return while making it as simple as uploading the pack to your server and making a launcher that runs with a few clicks. Have you tried to get this number of mods all working together then explaining to your users just how to install all the mods? It's not fun.

[jakj]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

Your otherwise valid points are obliterated by your entitled whiny tone at the start of your post. If you want to suggest a better way to do things, do so without condescension.

[Grindle2000]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

I have to say that is seems to me that OP should fix these problems on his own server instead of expecting a group of people who are putting out a great tech mod pack for free and already spending tons of time on it.

[Neowulf]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

Bricked? Weren't you booted from SGtekkit for constantly whining about the tick rate (on an 80 slot, free server mind you)?

P1: Very minor issue, really. Anyway it gives people a kick in the ass to go do their own bindings.

Ex1: Yeah, equivalent exchange is vastly overpowered compared to other mods. Well known, and the reason a lot of servers disable it.

Ex2: I would think getting 4 bars of metal in exchange for 4 bars of metal would be the default behavior. IC2 bronze is annoying, you lose half your mass.

Moot point anyway, forestry going byebye.

Ex3: The mod author said exactly as much on the mod page, and has stated it's up to the server ops to change the default behavior. Why would the technic guys do any different?

Ex4: I can write a couple lines of code in LUA that would destroy the tick rate of any server with just a couple computers. I can also create a field of timers set to the fastest rate and kill the tick rate of a server. As everything else, it's a trade-off server OPs need to make.

It's not that big of a deal anyway, unless you're a whiny little prick who can't handle things slowing down in the slightest...

[BrickedKeyboard]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

No, I was banned because a certain power-tripping admin decided he didn't have to have any standards of conduct whatsoever. You know, no warning that I was being annoying, or in fact one single negative word directed my way until BOOM, ban. Sounds totally fair and legit, yep.

Anyhow, does this mean you WILL accept fixes to the pack? I had the impression that you would not. Where do I go to submit these fixes?

[jakj]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

No, I was banned because a certain power-tripping admin decided he didn't have to have any standards of conduct whatsoever. You know, no warning that I was being annoying, or in fact one single negative word directed my way until BOOM, ban. Sounds totally fair and legit, yep.

Anyhow, does this mean you WILL accept fixes to the pack? I had the impression that you would not. Where do I go to submit these fixes?

You go right here. Fix it, put up your fix, and someone'll use it if they have a chance (and if it works). This isn't their job: If they don't have time to fix something, do it your damned self.

FYI: Being annoying on this board can lead to a ban just as fast. Since your wording indicates that you admit to being annoying, the admin's action is therefore justified. What makes you think you (or any of us) deserve to be warned about annoying behavior? This isn't preschool: It's a moderated forum. The technic team is not here to guide us into appropriate social behavior.

If we're old enough to be here, we should be old enough to know how to act already.

[BrickedKeyboard]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

Basically, you aren't going to do shit. You'll release your pack misconfigured and sucking badly, and then server admins and players are forced to sift through the forums to find the fixes.

This explains a lot, actually : why several crucial fixes that there are no drawbacks to are NOT included in the pack and are only available on this forum.

Yeah, yeah, you're doing it for free. Still, I would hope that with as much publicity as you get, you'd at least attempt to adhere to better standards.

[jakj]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

1) I am a user of Technic, not a maintainer of it.

2) Jesus christ are you ever cynical.

[Neowulf]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

No, I was banned because a certain power-tripping admin decided he didn't have to have any standards of conduct whatsoever. You know, no warning that I was being annoying, or in fact one single negative word directed my way until BOOM, ban. Sounds totally fair and legit, yep.

Ahh, so you block out anything that's not the sound of your own voice. Always good to know just how much of an entitles little asshole someone is when I deal with them.

You acted like a complete jackass in pretty much every forum post and in game chat, and talked down to sct like he was a lowly employee of yours who was performing badly.

I mean jesus, you told sct he was walking on thin ice for stopping you from siphoning all the power you could from a town power grid and sending it off site to your mining operation. Common fucking sense says if someone gives you 32eu/t as part of your rent, you don't hack into the power grid to take whatever you can and damn your neighbors...

Well, it's obvious by the fact you're now talking down to jakj for not kissing your ass as a thankyou for your most holy and righteous of Fixes to his obviously Broken Beyond Usability and All Sanity Technic pack that you didn't even bother reading the front fucking page or any of the stickies.

Go tell Kaker he's doing it wrong, see how long you last.

[Jay?]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

Basically, you aren't going to do shit. You'll release your pack misconfigured and sucking badly, and then server admins and players are forced to sift through the forums to find the fixes.

This explains a lot, actually : why several crucial fixes that there are no drawbacks to are NOT included in the pack and are only available on this forum.

Yeah, yeah, you're doing it for free. Still, I would hope that with as much publicity as you get, you'd at least attempt to adhere to better standards.

Most people are capable enough to configure the pack how they want it. No sense doing more work than they need to.

Also, if you think that technic pack sucks, you can feel free to get bent at any time.

[sct]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

No, I was banned because a certain power-tripping admin decided he didn't have to have any standards of conduct whatsoever. You know, no warning that I was being annoying, or in fact one single negative word directed my way until BOOM, ban. Sounds totally fair and legit, yep.

Let's see how long you last before you get banned here too!

[gummby8]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

I agree with the OP on some points.

Honestly the tekkit pack is full of exploits, bugs, and server debilitating problems.

To name a few: Mob spawner tiles are forked with world edit unless you get a different class file, floppy drives dont work unless you get a different class file, water strainers kill your server until you MC edit out the bad tile, YOU CANT PROTECT ANYTHING with towny or worldguard since the block place event is forked. Any mod that builds or breaks blocks will not work in towny without damn near modifying code.

All these problems have been in one way or another solved by the wonderful community, but the tekkit devs still have not implemented a single fix for the above problems into their pack.

As far as OP mods and OP items are concerned, that is how the original mods set it up. As a server admin it is your responsibility to balance things as you see fit. I for one fully support EE under very strict rules. If you educate yourself on what parts are OP and what parts are simply useful EE is a very nice addition. To those that are too lavy to go through and turn off OP items, just remove the whole thing.

As for the forum moderators. Have you read the top right? "mostly a bunch of asshat prima donnas" They tell you themselfs. They are not nice people, deal with it.

[jakj]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

You don't seem to be able to grasp the complexity of these "simple fixes" you're touting. They would have to find them, collect them, put them in, test them, change them when testing reveals they're only half-fixes or the problem is more complex than that, and assume they do finally get every last little thing ironed out somehow............and then a mod updates! And the mod update fucks things up again! Yay, rinse-and-repeat time.

Feel free to start giving about a thousand bucks a week to the pack in order for them to quit their jobs and use that money to live on while they spend all their time tweaking the pack to your exacting standards.

Or deal with it.

[BrickedKeyboard]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

Look what Gumby wrote there. Isn't a half fix better than something completely broken? Those were some bugs I didn't even know about.

I wrote and maintained my own mod pack. Apparently, it was better than the tekkit pack, because I fixed (and tweaked) EVERYTHING I could. Proof : brickedtechnology.blogspot.com

I got bored with it because it was a lot of work, and only 3 servers were using it. Still...

[BrickedKeyboard]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

Let's see how long you last before you get banned here too!

Idiots can abuse their power all they want. But when they do so on a routine basis, you end up with North Korea. If, instead of listening to when you're wrong, you exile the person that says it, you can never make progress. This is why the tekkit pack is riddled with horrendous bugs and why your server tick rate is unplayably slow.

As long as you just ban whoever points this out, you'll never fix anything.

[sct]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

We are planning our first national long range missile launch for the weekend!

[Jay?]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

Idiots can abuse their power all they want. But when they do so on a routine basis, you end up with North Korea. If, instead of listening to when you're wrong, you exile the person that says it, you can never make progress. This is why the tekkit pack is riddled with horrendous bugs and why your server tick rate is unplayably slow.

As long as you just ban whoever points this out, you'll never fix anything.

Okay, ill bite, but just a nibble.

Banning people for stirring up shit is not "abuse of power", the only person doing anything wrong here is you, and tekkkit is actually doing quite well. the lag factors are all modside. You want evidence? go on some of the servers in the deluxe board, they're having no troubles.

Finally, the reason for which nothing would ever get fixed is if the dev team stopped to listen to every two bit keller who decided he had the ultimate solution to make the pack more bettur.

[sct]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

Okay, ill bite, but just a nibble.

Banning people for stirring up shit is not "abuse of power", the only person doing anything wrong here is you, and tekkkit is actually doing quite well. the lag factors are all modside. You want evidence? go on some of the servers in the deluxe board, they're having no troubles.

Finally, the reason for which nothing would ever get fixed is if the dev team stopped to listen to every two bit keller who decided he had the ultimate solution to make the pack more bettur.

Just to clarify. I refunded his donation and didn't ban him for "complaining." I banned him after he started insulting me saying it was abuse of my power to refund his donation without telling him first. After he called me an asshole and insulted the server/time I put into the server... it escalated to a lovely ban!

[KakerMix]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

Technicolor Noise

You have no idea what you are talking about, and it shows ~*IN SPADES*~. (pretend this is sparkly)

Rather than go into detail on why you are clueless, I'll instead wave it all away and say a few words instead insulting your lack of 'getting it', in hopes that you'll freak the fuck out, then I can ban you for just cause even though I instigated the reaction.

Maybe you'll go

'YOU DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING'

because I didn't explain anything to you at all, maybe you'll say something like

"You guys are all assholes!"

and say something we can quote, adopt, and make our own.

I dunno man, sounds to me like you whine a lot. That true?

[Niavmai]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

You have no idea what you are talking about, and it shows ~*IN SPADES*~. (pretend this is sparkly)

Rather than go into detail on why you are clueless, I'll instead wave it all away and say a few words instead insulting your lack of 'getting it', in hopes that you'll freak the fuck out, then I can ban you for just cause even though I instigated the reaction.

Maybe you'll go

'YOU DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING'

because I didn't explain anything to you at all, maybe you'll say something like

"You guys are all assholes!"

and say something we can quote, adopt, and make our own.

I dunno man, sounds to me like you whine a lot. That true?

[BrickedKeyboard]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

Ok, so every point I made is

1. Available as an optional patch on the forums

OR

2. A Major complaint thread in these forums

OR

3. Something every new player has to be told to fix (like the keymapping conflicts)

I don't know what I'm doing, and deserve your abuse of forum admin powers. Right.

Anyways, it is now quite obvious why the actual mod authors (Eloraam, Player, SpaceToad, etc) all hate your guts, and call the technic people n00bs and idiots.

I tried defending technic/tekkit on IRC, pointing out that this latest version seems to be reasonably stable and usable. The launcher is very, very nice (so if you can write such a nice launcher, why not spend 30 more seconds to adjust the keybindings? Why not spend 5 minutes adjusting the configuration files for game balance?)

Everything I have asked you to fix are very minor configuration tweaks or very small code changes that are not going to take more than a tiny fraction of the time that has already gone into the pack.

Analogy : it's like you built a new mercedes, but didn't bother to install the seats. It might be a free Mercedes, but it makes people wonder why you did all that work but didn't finish the last few details.

So here I am, saying "hey, I'll bolt those seats in for ya" and you have basically just trolled this thread like an 8 year old with mod powers.

[Niavmai]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

[Neowulf]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

Analogy : it's like you built a new mercedes, but didn't bother to install the seats. It might be a free Mercedes, but it makes people wonder why you did all that work but didn't finish the last few details.

So here I am, saying "hey, I'll bolt those seats in for ya" and you have basically just trolled this thread like an 8 year old with mod powers.

No. "Hey, that fucking mercedes you gave me for free doesn't have seats. What the fuck man, go bolt some on NOW! Make sure they're a nice real leather, and repaint the car too while you're at it, I hate that color."

[KakerMix]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

Ok, so every point I made is

1. Available as an optional patch on the forums

OR

2. A Major complaint thread in these forums

OR

3. Something every new player has to be told to fix (like the keymapping conflicts)

You don't get why this can't be done in the way you claim it should be, but I'm not surprised.

Anyways, it is now quite obvious why the actual mod authors (Eloraam, Player, SpaceToad, etc) all hate your guts, and call the technic people n00bs and idiots.

Its in bad form to speak for other people.

I tried defending technic/tekkit on IRC, pointing out that this latest version seems to be reasonably stable and usable. The launcher is very, very nice (so if you can write such a nice launcher, why not spend 30 more seconds to adjust the keybindings? Why not spend 5 minutes adjusting the configuration files for game balance?)

Everything I have asked you to fix are very minor configuration tweaks or very small code changes that are not going to take more than a tiny fraction of the time that has already gone into the pack.

Listen guy, we don't balance things. We don't do it. It isn't our job to dictate how the game is played. Some server ops love EE, they'll run it. Some turn off parts of it, others turn it off completely. What I consider balanced may not be what you consider balanced. Its futile, and is best left up to the server ops themselves.

The rest of the things you are spergin' hard about are things you don't understand. I know its cool to think we're all super awesome, making sweet combos, hittin' up the malls and dicky like, firing up some hot launcher action, and then for some reason SUPER EASY things we neglect to do we neglect on purpose or out of being lazy? I guess?

Thanks for reacting exactly like I predicted you would though, it really feeds my ego.