Asshole not happy with our job performance. This close to firing us! Oh no!

[Cheap Shot]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

THOSE sort of bugs should get fixed within a day or confirming that the bug exists

The actual problem in this thread is that none of you actually do what we do, know how it works, or what it takes to do it. It's easy for everyone to sit back and say "SIMPLE TESTING SHOULD HAVE CAUGHT THESE THINGS!" or "IT'S A SMALL BUG, IT SHOULD TAKE 5 SECONDS TO FIX IT!", but you honestly have no idea what you're talking about, and base most of that on nothing. We test each version extensively. When a couple hundred thousand people start to play it, obviously more bugs are going to be found. Many of them we just can't fix because they're bugs with the mods themselves, or because of the way the mods have to be installed. Other things we can't do because of x and y and also we're limited because of z. People don't actually know, and they're too self entitled to care. We're 4 people and we sleep and eat and work and turn off our computers once and a while. A collective get bent to anyone who would slap their hand and tell us to get working, when slapping their hand is the only time they've lifted their finger to do anything. We do this for less then free. It costs US a lot of money. The least you can do is change your own bloody keybindings and trust that we're working hard to solve every issue we can within reason.

[jakj]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

He meant the end-user can fix it in less than a minute, Cheap Shot.

[JohnJohn1983]

Im not really bothered, we can report bugs and maybe they will be fixed. I still enjoy playing and Im greatful to those who built this Tekkit Pack. We all got it free.

[Cheap Shot]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

He meant the end-user can fix it in less than a minute, Cheap Shot.

my bad, I quoted the wrong thing.

[gummby8]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

The actual problem in this thread is that none of you actually do what we do, know how it works, or what it takes to do it. It's easy for everyone to sit back and say "SIMPLE TESTING SHOULD HAVE CAUGHT THESE THINGS!" or "IT'S A SMALL BUG, IT SHOULD TAKE 5 SECONDS TO FIX IT!", but you honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

Cheap Shot,

I understand you and the Tekkit team put a lot of thankless effort into Tekkit, and first let me be one to say, thank you. It is a wonderfull mod/pluggin/api that you and the team have made.

You are correct. I don't do what you do. I won't pretend to know how java works. I am a network architect by trade, not a java dev.

But when you say that there was extensive testing done, and some of the bugs that we have seen show up, I can not help but question that statement.

Case in point, the monster spawner tile bug. It took me 5 seconds to select a 100x100 area with world edit and use //cut and //paste to find that bug. This is such a highly used process it is suprissing that no Tekkit member found it. Anyone should hit a monster spawner withing a 100x100 area, and I would have thought that would cover just about any BC or IC2 or EE natural block as well. Going forward the error generated in console referes to the monster spawner tile. Again I don't know java but simply downloading Bukkit 1.4 and replacing Tekkit's class file with Bukkit's class file, appears to solve the issue.

This wasnt an issue with a mod, this was an issue with Tekkit. Again simple things like, "omg my keys overlap" suck it up and remap your keys, but again I shouldn't be replacing class files in the tekkit.jar for something that took 5 seconds to find and 5 min to fix. Even if the Tekkit team didn't find the solution, a simple "Thanks for solving that bug, it will be fixed in the next update. And then.....actualy update! Why hasn't the monster spawner tile bug or the world guard protections fixes been implimented yet? They are really bad and highly game breaking bugs. A community member found the solution, confirmed by the community to work, and Tekkit hasn't updated or hotfixed or whatever yet. Its been months. Im not asking for 1.2, I am asking for a bug fix release!

You even have a common problems and fixes thread! What is it good for if you don't even update it with "Common problems and fixes"!?

I understand some things do go unoticed, or forgotten, or fall through the cracks. But to come back and say "you honestly have no idea what you're talking about, and base most of that on nothing" seems harsh, and unfair to your community. We do test, we do find bugs, we do find fixes, and when they are that simple, anyone would question the Tekkit team's effectivness.

I compare the above mentioned bug to ordering a burger without pickles, and recieving a burger with pickles, and then the burger guy gets pissed at me for confronting him about making my burger wrong. It's like "Really? Come on man." A simple mistake like that is understandable, you don't need to insult the intelegence of your community with things like "You have no idea" or "You are not us"

[Pilchard123]

You were going so well up until those last two lines.

[gummby8]

You were going so well up until those last two lines.

Your right I removed em

[kizz]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

The actual problem in this thread is that none of you actually do what we do, know how it works, or what it takes to do it. It's easy for everyone to sit back and say "SIMPLE TESTING SHOULD HAVE CAUGHT THESE THINGS!" or "IT'S A SMALL BUG, IT SHOULD TAKE 5 SECONDS TO FIX IT!"

Try sitting at a computer looking at a bright white screen with tiny white letters, sifting through weeks of works from several different programmers; altering, calculating, and trying to understand the systems used to make a specific action work, then use what you know to alter this system to try and get it to work correctly with 20 other systems, and without any errors, and once you've done this, repeat it for every other system that might even be close to interfering with another. Once you get these set of systems configured, you may have just made it possible to do one simple action in the game. Like open a door that's setting on a Technic block. Rinse and repeat this hundreds of times and then take your work that has taken hours and hours of time to do, and combine it with another programmers who likely did something a little different with his systems that interferes with your systems. Get the gist? These guys start with nothing more than a lot of confusing and totally different mods, some that do things that really alter game mechanics. These guys have to understand and know everything about not just the game, but each mod. I don't understand how these guys do it for free, but I surely respect them and their work.

I've done a lot of programming in java and many other languages, and I refuse to take a single look at Minecraft because it's written so oddly and always changing. You couldn't pay me to try and combine this with the work of mod creators. Let alone combine several mods with Minecraft.

If you want a good idea of what its like to work on this stuff, stick your head in a wood chipper...

[KakerMix]

A lot of people don't 'get' inertia either. You know how hard it is to steer Tekkit? It's like, woah man, ridgedog hard.

There is a reason we don't rapid-fire updates left and right, because that causes fragmentation. Suddenly instead of ONE tekkit server and ONE tekkit client, you have two of each, or four, or six. Suddenly, you have people running server A but people trying to connect with client B, but a server C that has client A's trying to connect to it.

This part, right there, the fragmentation, is what everyone seems to miss.

It is a hell of a lot more than throwing out a server and a client, its about doing it in a way that makes sense. I can tell you right now, server ops would rather do a small fix on their end rather than deal with 3 separate clients and trying to explain to them that no, you have to connect with THIS specific one, not any other one, and all of the white noise that suddenly erupts on their forums, their web sites, their irc channels, their email boxes.

The inertia of Tekkit is heavy, really heavy. We don't bother doing incremental updates because its a pain in the ass for support. We try to do major, large-bore updates all at once so the community can have a few days (or a week) of growing pains instead of chronic ones all the time. We also aren't a professional outfit, not at all, so realize that if you are going to expect to be treated like a customer we are going to laugh in your face instead. If you want to be treated LIKE A PERSON then come on down, lets hang out and have a talk.

[kizz]

so realize that if you are going to expect to be treated like a customer we are going to laugh in your face instead. If you want to be treated LIKE A PERSON then come on down, lets hang out and have a talk.

A real business doesn't treat their customers like customers anyways, they treat them like Real People.

The fact that you guys even offer a way to help the community (Forums, Tutorials) shows just how nice you guys really are. In all honesty, the help you guys offer is worth a lot more than people seem to realize.

[jakj]

What Kaker said is also a good summary of a lot of why we hate quick incremental updates from Jeb. If they had stopped at 1.2.3 with just that one crashbug fix, we might have the next Technic out by now.

[DoodTheDud]

A real business doesn't treat their customers like customers anyways, they treat them like Real People.

The fact that you guys even offer a way to help the community (Forums, Tutorials) shows just how nice you guys really are. In all honesty, the help you guys offer is worth a lot more than people seem to realize.

Depends how the company treats "customers".

Some companies treat them as moneysacks, others put them on a pedestal.

I always PREFER people treating each other like people, but putting people on a pedestal is a legitimate way to get customers feeling happier with your company.

[ErusPrime]

I prefer being treated like a drunk girl on spring break.

[kizz]

By real I meant successful :/. There are many business that adopt the hit and run method, and many that treat their customers like gods and goddesses. Generally the most successful businesses and communities are those in which EVERYONE treats EVERYONE like people.

When regular members start to treat Admins like royalty or like dirt it always ends bad, same goes when admins are too forgiving or harsh. Its a shaky balance.

[gummby8]

There is a reason we don't rapid-fire updates left and right, because that causes fragmentation. Suddenly instead of ONE tekkit server and ONE tekkit client, you have two of each, or four, or six. Suddenly, you have people running server A but people trying to connect with client B, but a server C that has client A's trying to connect to it.

This part, right there, the fragmentation, is what everyone seems to miss.

I am wondering where you are going with this. As every bug >>I<< have listed is 100% server side and does not require a client update at all.

block place bug, monster spawner tile, even a new one I noticed today, EE DM and RM tools dont send block break events.

All of these bugs have been fixed by the community and require 0 client updates.

It still boggles my mind that the Tekkit team has not implimented a fix for the block place event yet. Do none of the Tekkit team members play on a server with any form of grief protection? Towny, worldguard ect.. You would know right away that your Tekkit jar has a giant security hole in it with flashing neon signs saying "COME GRIEF THIS !!" I can go to any tekkit server that does not have the community fix in place and dump lava wherever I want, I can place any block I please wherever I want, and this still is not fixed in the Tekkit.jar.

Would any Tekkit team member advertise Tekkit as the easiest thing to grief? Because that's what it is currently. Infact you can't stop people from griefing unless you modify the Tekkit.jar yourself. I know you don't "market" Tekkit to people who have no clue how to run a server, but the very product you are giving people is defective in a big way. I don't buy the "We have lives" excuse either, because I doub't the tekkit team is so busy that not one person could take the 10 min to fix a snipit of code, or at the very least, drop a class file into the jar and re-upload it.

I don't belive the Tekkit team want to be assholes but the lack of an official solution to some of these very gamebreaking bugs (that don't require client updates) says to me, "We don't give a rip if your server and your content is safe or not" I doubt that is the message the Tekkit team wishes to convey, but that is what it is currently.

[sct]

LOTS OF WORDS

Any decent server worth its weight reads the forums and puts in fixes. If you expect Tekkit to hold your hand the whole damn way and you can't bother to put in several fixes which take MAYBE 5 minutes to do all of them together, you probably shouldn't be running any kind of Minecraft server.

Along with that, most of the fixes were found by Tekkit servers. The community worked together to find them and post solutions. Most of us don't have a problem with it. I don't see how you can't wrap your head around the fact that its not a big deal that the block place event bug isn't included with the zip you download.

[HalibutBarn]

As somebody already operating a server, I actually don't want to see a lot of +0.0.1 minor bugfix releases because applying a new server zip file is always a much bigger hassle than just dropping in a new plugin or .class file. Configs get overwritten and have to be fixed up again, plugins you didn't want get put back and have to be removed, you have to make sure obsolete files get removed, etc.

I can understand that somebody just setting up a new server would be frustrated that the server zip isn't actually 'complete' and they need to go grab a bunch of other stuff too, but maybe that just needs better organization within a "Setting up your server 101..." thread.

[PsychoBob]

A lot of people don't 'get' inertia either. You know how hard it is to steer Tekkit? It's like, woah man, ridgedog hard.

Ridgedog? The owner of voxelbox?

I've never made a modpack, and probably never will. But knowing how long it must take to sift through code for hours....Correcting errors, and fixing bugs. Then modding the forums to the collective cries of "MY TEKKIT NO WORK! MAKE IT WORK!" amoung the few people on here who actually can think.And on top of this, dealing with other forums spreading hate for technic pack like a virus, despite all Technic's really done is make things easier. But still all people seem to say is "Technic's stealing mods and donations! Technic's claiming they made the mods! Technic's full of assholes!"

And after all this work is done, after every little bug is fixed, you actually refuse donations and instead point to the mod developers. Telling users to donate to them to, and offering free webhosting so users can download the mods. Technic pack creators, you have my sincere and utter respect.

[Cheap Shot]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

I compare the above mentioned bug to ordering a burger without pickles, and recieving a burger with pickles, and then the burger guy gets pissed at me for confronting him about making my burger wrong. It's like "Really? Come on man." A simple mistake like that is understandable, you don't need to insult the intelegence of your community with things like "You have no idea" or "You are not us"

You say you know nothing about java or modding etc, but you keep arguing and arguing like you do. Talking like you know our workload, or what we do, and how much time and effort and money we put into this. Like you personally understand what we have to deal with while doing all this. It boggles your mind. Well mine too chum. It boggles my mind how entitled people can get and how rude and assuming they get when that entitlement isn't met with coddling and pampering. The part you don't get is the part where applying these "fixes" to your game post installation is different from digging in and modifying the launcher and pre-installation download packages. Not to mention the effects.

Do you want to keep making poor and inaccurate comparisons to cover the fact that you're trying to convince us that we for some reason owe you some kind of professional and perfect service, or do you want to tell me where I can get free burgers with varying amounts of pickle? Choose very carefully here.

[Cheap Shot]

Here's a big helpful hint - I'm quite hungry and VERY annoyed.

[BurningCake]

Cheap Shot attacks! It's super effective!

[PsychoBob]

Here's a big helpful hint - I'm quite hungry and VERY annoyed.

Get the man a burger, or risk getting bent...

[Neowulf]

Depends how the company treats "customers".

Some companies treat them as moneysacks, others put them on a pedestal.

I always PREFER people treating each other like people, but putting people on a pedestal is a legitimate way to get customers feeling happier with your company.

Fun fact, people attending Disney theme parks are Guests, not Customers. It's something Walt did to hammer into employees that disneyland patrons are there to have fun, not to be treated like walking wallets.

Employees are called cast members.

Customer is actually a code word used to alert cast to shoplifters and troublemakers. If you ever go to a disney park and hear an employee tell another to "Can you please go service that customer over there?", that's code for "Go hound that person so they can't try to steal anything else, and keep track of them for when security gets here."

It's kinda like the hellen keller thing on here, they both translate to "Stupid fucker who needs to shape up and start following the rules if they plan to still be here 15 minutes from now."

[Jay?]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

you want to tell me where I can get free burgers with varying amounts of pickle? Choose very carefully here.

Portland, Oregon. Go to either Backspace or Ground Kontrol, and produce your Official Technic Crew badge.

They'll totally accept your hero worship points as payment.

[DoodTheDud]

Fun fact, people attending Disney theme parks are Guests, not Customers. It's something Walt did to hammer into employees that disneyland patrons are there to have fun, not to be treated like walking wallets.

Employees are called cast members.

Chuck-E-Cheese's does that too. Interesting about the "code" of customer though. Neat.