Unfair server lists!

[jwa1]

Whitelisted servers take advantage over open servers.

Whitelisted servers issue whitelist applications that they often ask to be posted in their forum thread, bumping them to the front of the list. Servers that do not apply such a whitelist, have to rely on (good) reviews of people who actually play on those servers.

Example: Aegis Gaia Life vs The Saturn Server, both a custom modpack server.

Stats

Aegis Gaia Life: 1363 views, 49 comments, currently at the top of the list.

The Saturn Server: 3395 views, 19 comments, currently at the bottom of the first page.

Aegis Gaia Life enforces a very strict whitelist, requiring players to submit an application before being able to join the server. This is done through their website's recruitment form (from Enjin).

At the end of this application, Aegis Gaia Life asks players to post the entire application here on the forums because this "helps to show the interest in our server!". By doing so, Aegis Gaia Life gains a comment and gets bumped to the top of the server list.

The Saturn Server is an open server, allowing new players to join immediately without having to fill in a whitelist application. The Saturn Server relies on players to post reviews for it to be even visible on the first page of the server list.

Side note:

I am not judging which server here is superior, just pointing out the facts.

With the rules about thread titles, there are very limited ways to let your server stand out from the rest in the list, and where do you think most people go look for a server? Right, at the top of the list. Some might even scroll down a bit, but very few will actually go look on the second page and beyond.

With the current system, whitelisted servers that ask for their applications to be posted in these forums have a clear advantage against servers that are open and free to join.

A solution would be to take a formula like 'views / comments = server score' and sort servers on that score. (PMC does something like that with votes and views)

A more drastic solution: Disallow servers to post whitelist applications in the thread comments, have them use an external page (Enjin recruitment form / Google-docs form) to get applications.

I hope you see the faulty system as I do, thanks for reading.

[Kocken926]

A more simple way would be making different subsections for whitelist and no whitelist for each modpack. That way all other rules could stay the same, and no-one would have to change their current server threads. Sorting the threads into the subsections shouldn't be all that much work either, what with tags and such.

[Lothos]

You could do a test and simply have a main section of all whitelisted servers separated by modpack subsection and then a non-whitelist main area again separated. You will first see there are but a handful of servers that do not employ a whitelist. And then two see that whitelist servers are in fact more populated than non. This is simply due to the fact that most people are assholes in the community.

[waldlauefer]

Imo all whitelist servers should be required to have a seperate website, section or google documents page where people submit their apps or have their topics deleted.

[planetguy]

I think sorting threads into whitelist and open sections makes sense. Many people already know which kind of server they would rather play on before they even start searching: perhaps they don't want to jump through the extra hoops of applying for a server, or perhaps they prefer the atmosphere of a whitelist server.

I think the only reason servers on packs newer than Classic aren't sorted into open and whitelist is because before MCPC+, Tekkit Lite was mostly good for multiplayer only with a few friends on a whitelist server.

It isn't fair to open servers to punish them for not having applications that bump their threads, nor is it fair to whitelist servers to punish them for wanting to keep the application process in the thread where anyone can see it.

[disconsented]

This is actually a decent time to bring this up as Cheap Shot appears to be reworking the server section. I think the best course of action is to have servers which force users to post (whitelist) should be in their own section.

[Cheap Shot]

Ideally I'd rather have people send whitelist requests via pm instead of thread posts but it's too hard to get people to change their behavior. Even if we made it a rule we'd just be sending warnings to people forever. I'll read through this thread later and see if there's anything with merit. Im on my phone and enjoying the holidays

[Maxis010]

How about something similar to the bug reports, only instead of using a form to post, only allow the OP (+ mods and admins) to reply to the topic so the topic only gets used for status updates and people can't reply with their whitelist apps, forcing them to use PMs

[disconsented]

That'll work but what about those who want to have user feedback posted?

[TheBytemaster]

How about something similar to the bug reports, only instead of using a form to post, only allow the OP (+ mods and admins) to reply to the topic so the topic only gets used for status updates and people can't reply with their whitelist apps, forcing them to use PMs

That'd be good if it worked, but I have a feeling that'd probably just cause mass confusion and whining. And it prevents feedback being posted publicly, like Disconsented said.

I'm thinking that a separate section for whitelist/no whitelist would be the best option here too. Better sorting for people to find what they want, no unfairness in order for servers, easy to set up, and easy to understand. Fairer, more direct competition sorts out the quality of the servers, and also encourages them to improve in an effort to compete. Everyone wins.

[Cheap Shot]

Everyone except the forums moderators who will have several times more headache and work. Doubling the amount of server sections is not only double the territory Mods have to partrol, it's also much more confusion when it comes to approving server requests and making sure they're all in the correct sections. You're kidding yourselves if you think people will pick the right one when there's that many. We already have to deal with piles of missplaced threads. I wouldn't wish this solution on my moderation team. I won't wish it on people I don't even like.

So I don't feel that it's going to be a reasonable solution.

[TheBytemaster]

Everyone except the forums moderators who will have several times more headache and work. Doubling the amount of server sections is not only double the territory Mods have to partrol, it's also much more confusion when it comes to approving server requests and making sure they're all in the correct sections. You're kidding yourselves if you think people will pick the right one when there's that many. We already have to deal with piles of missplaced threads. I wouldn't wish this solution on my moderation team. I won't wish it on people I don't even like.

So I don't feel that it's going to be a reasonable solution.

Annnnnd I feel stupid now for forgetting how much work you guys put in to keep this place running.

[disconsented]

What about just disallowing applications on the thread?

[Maxis010]

What about just disallowing applications on the thread?

This was addressed further up, people are to set in their ways so the mod team would end up issuing mass warnings

[disconsented]

This was addressed further up, people are to set in their ways so the mod team would end up issuing mass warnings

Ahh missed that, between a rock and a hard place then :|

[Lothos]

Not just that, disallowing apps would be unfair to the ones that do whitelists and use it well. Why punish them because the ones without apps feel threatened in popularity?

[poryy]

Why not just separate sections for Whitelist and Open?

[lukeb28]

Why not just separate sections for Whitelist and Open?

That was just addressed by Cheap Shot.

[planetguy]

Standard forum software doesn't seem like the best solution for fair, organised server lists. We probably just have to live with it, unless there's a web dev with lotsa spare time here.

[waldlauefer]

My suggestion:

No whitelist apps on the topics, for all servers there is easy solutions like google documents or their own forums. It would be that easy.

[planetguy]

My suggestion:

No whitelist apps on the topics, for all servers there is easy solutions like google documents or their own forums. It would be that easy.

People are set in their ways and would probably apply in server threads anyway. The moderators would end up issuing mass warnings, which they don't want to do.

[Cheap Shot]

It would be that easy.

Of course it would be that easy. Unless you read my posts.

[Lothos]

My suggestion:

No whitelist apps on the topics, for all servers there is easy solutions like google documents or their own forums. It would be that easy.

Again, penalizing whitelist servers doing what they've done correctly just so 1 or 2 servers that don't use whitelisting can be more popular.

[disconsented]

Again, penalizing whitelist servers doing what they've done correctly just so 1 or 2 servers that don't use whitelisting can be more popular.

I see it more like so they can be competitive

As a result of knowing this isn't going to change I am going to be adjusting a few things

[Lothos]

I see it more like so they can be competitive

As a result of knowing this isn't going to change I am going to be adjusting a few things

You say that like its some kind of competition to begin with. A good server will be populated by word of mouth generally and the forum posts are merely administrative. If your server's population relies solely upon your forum post remaining near the top, you're doing something wrong.