"Report Modpack" option?

[Flenix]

Hello,

I recall that Technic's standpoint on mod permissions is that it's the user's responsibility to get the permission and Technic won't be checking up on them, but us modders are welcome to shout at the users who don't ask our permission - is that still the case?

If so, I'd love to see a "Report Modpack" button, for us to request those illegit modpacks to be removed.

This isn't me trying to be unfair; quite the opposite. If someone asks permission to use my mods, I'll always say yes - but when they don't bother it's a total slap in the face. I currently blanket deny Technic requests purely because of the fact I can't do anything about it if they don't ask me.

I believe the button would be especially useful when people do things like THIS:

http://www.technicpack.net/modpack/details/flenix-mod.192373

The guy is claiming he made the mod (despite it having my name in), my mod is the only thing there, and from the comments it doesn't even work. All that does is gives me a bad name...

So, it's a simple request really. I'd even put my name forward and volunteer to moderate the requests if that's an issue, I just think something like this would really give Technic a better name in the modding community, something which I believe you're trying to achieve already.

On a final note, to anyone who disagrees with this as a feature; why?

Why is it so hard for you to take 15 seconds to send us a PM and ask for permission to use it? It makes us happy, but you just ripping off our work makes us not want to do it anymore. I know of modders who have stopped their mods due to excessive piracy- let's not let that happen again eh?

(PS, sorry if this is the wrong place, it seemed to fit here. If not either just move it or let me know so I can do so myself, thanks)

[Munaus]

I recall the staff mentioning that you can PM them if there is some shady shit on the platform. A guy claiming a mod that is yours would fall in that category.

[lukeb28]

to request those illegit modpacks to be removed.

There is no such thing as an "illegit modpack" (I am assuming you mean illegal) as mods them self's cannot be legally copyrighted due to the fact they are an add-on to copyrighted code (Minecraft). You can put whatever "legal information" you want on your forum post, its not legitimate and does not hold up in court. (I do believe that Covert Jaguar, author of Railcraft, tried and failed miserably)

This isn't me trying to be unfair; quite the opposite. If someone asks permission to use my mods, I'll always say yes - but when they don't bother it's a total slap in the face. I currently blanket deny Technic requests purely because of the fact I can't do anything about it if they don't ask me.

So you blanket deny Technic, despite you saying that you'll "always say yes". That's a great way of getting a handle on people who use the Technic platform who want to use your mod in their modpack. [/sarcasm] If people cannot get your permission due to a blanket deny then why would they bother with asking? Also, why are you doing that? If I had a mod I would want it on as many packs as possible as the more packs that use it, the more attention the mod will get.

I believe the button would be especially useful when people do things like THIS:

http://www.technicpack.net/modpack/details/flenix-mod.192373

The guy is claiming he made the mod (despite it having my name in), my mod is the only thing there, and from the comments it doesn't even work. All that does is gives me a bad name...

I do agree with you here. Making a pack with a mod you don't have permission for is one thing, but saying the mod is your own? That is ridiculous and agree that it should be taken down just for that one reason. Still though, it is not illegal due to the same argument I made before.

So, it's a simple request really. I'd even put my name forward and volunteer to moderate the requests if that's an issue...

Being a mod here is a very prestigious thing. They don't take applications, they make selections.

Why is it so hard for you to take 15 seconds to send us a PM and ask for permission to use it? It makes us happy, but you just ripping off our work makes us not want to do it anymore. I know of modders who have stopped their mods due to excessive piracy- let's not let that happen again eh?

It's not hard, it's just that many people don't care. It might make you happy but for those of us who make large modpacks (Many of mine are 80+) it becomes a nightmare getting to every single modder to ask/thank them for their mod. Many times it's not 15 seconds as they want a full list of all the mods you have, proof that you have permission for the rest of them (which can turn into a catch 22), etc. It's a burden that many do not have the time or patience for.

To finish off this post:

I'd love to see a "Report Modpack" button

A good idea if implemented well and the moderators are willing. That might not be the case however judging by Cheap Shot's posts in this thread: http://forums.technicpack.net/threads/unfair-server-lists.55746

I'm sorry if I caused any butt hurt but as a mod packer myself I get very annoyed when I make a pack and the author wants us to jump through flaming hoops backwards on a unicycle, when all we are doing is increasing their exposure.

[Flenix]

-snip-

You do make some good arguments here, but I should point out that I myself have a modpack with around 78 mods, and all my permission emails were relatively quick and straight-forward. I know there are a few mods which are more challenging (Railcraft took me around an hour of talking to CJ on IRC), but many mods also just blanket-allow everything, my 15-second thing was an average

When I said illegit, that's what I mean. I know a copyright case wouldn't hold up in court*, but I consider a legit pack to have all correct permissions etc, so an illegit pack in my mind simply doesn't have the required permissions.

The always yes/blanket deny is simply this; My posts state that I don't allow technic packs right now, but if someone asks me with a relatively good case of why I should say yes, I usually will.

Anyway, you did make a good argument and honestly I'm glad you made a balanced one. Frankly when I posted this I was just expecting to get a load of flaming from the lazy 11-year-olds who make AwesomeCraft modpack featuring Mo' Creatures etc (you get where I'm going with this ). The thread I linked was the main reason I wanted the ability to report packs, if a pack is simply using my mod I'd rather talk to them first and work out permissions, but last time I tried that it didn't end well...

For now, I'll PM a moderator about that pack though.

*That really depends on the mod and how it's written. It's obviously a very open discussion on all platforms and communities around the web, but the way I see it from what I've read (in UK law), you can copyright it so long as you're not using any Mojang (or otherwise copyrighted) code. I still doubt it'd hold up in court unless someone was making serious money off your mod and I personally would never bother going that far.

[Neowulf]

I don't think the guy is trying to claim he wrote the mod. He's just making the same mistake that generates dozens of bad threads in modders metropolis here on the boards a month, thinking modpack and mod are interchangeable.

Consider "this is my first modpack and soon i will have the GTA V mod here too, possibly with the flenix mod if i can". It reads better and a small mistake like that is understandable when you consider the rest of the poor grammar. The kid is probably in the 10-13 age range.

Also notice in the discussion, arthur_g17 refering to the modpack as a mod. Platform doesn't support hosting a bare mod, only modpacks.

And about your previous problem with Technimon and Amaxter. You lead off by threatening to weaponize your code and target him directly, and yet you expect civil discussion on the matter? I don't think you quite understand what what you were doing when you made that comment.

Your stance on blanket permit/deny translates to "Adhere to my wishes and you will have my blessing. All I require is a token gesture of your subservience to me." which, as I hope you can understand, ruffles just a couple feathers around here. And you added to it by threatening to single out and punish he who would not obey.

There will never be a report modpack button. At the very least because complaints cannot be vetted for authenticity, so any such system becomes a troll plaything.

[Flenix]

And about your previous problem with Technimon and Amaxter. You lead off by threatening to weaponize your code and target him directly, and yet you expect civil discussion on the matter? I don't think you quite understand what what you were doing when you made that comment.

Why does everyone seem against me on this? He posted this BEFORE I posted anything;

"Do it, what's he going to do, sue me? Mod permissions are complete BS, if you're willingly modding a licensed game you have no rights to claim some one can't use that mod."

Firstly from what I understand the underlined part is against the pack T&C as shown when you create a pack. But more to the point, I don't see how a statement like that is absolutely fine and when I get offended by it I'm suddenly the bad guy - if you can explain that to me, please do. I did say in one of my replies that it was this that got him into my blacklist, and that I don't blacklist people just because they didn't ask my permission.

Your stance on blanket permit/deny translates to "Adhere to my wishes and you will have my blessing. All I require is a token gesture of your subservience to me." which, as I hope you can understand, ruffles just a couple feathers around here. And you added to it by threatening to single out and punish he who would not obey.

That's certainly not how I wanted my stance to come off. I simply thing it's fair to, if not ask me, at least have a link back to my page or something. Is that alone so much to ask? That truly does take a matter of seconds. I'd like it if people ask me, it shows my mod is popular, makes me happy and I get a new friend - but frankly so long as they at least link my page I don't really care that much. It's when they don't even bother with that it's just... offensive.

And, like I just said, I wouldn't blacklist someone for just not asking me. That would just be petty; the blacklist was originally designed to be for people who actively griefed the testing/citygen build server for example, people who have a directly detrimental effect on the progress of the mod. Techimon is the first (and currently only) person to have been added for his verbal abuse and clear lack of respect for the modding community.

It would be very easy for me to add similar code to GregTech and block Technic from working at all with my mods - I don't want to (and wont ever) do that, I'm trying to be diplomatic here. It just feels like I'm the only person trying to be diplomatic, and that no-one here thinks us modders even deserve a bit of credit for the countless hours we put into our creations.

[Maxis010]

It would be very easy for me to add similar code to GregTech and block Technic from working at all with my mods - I don't want to (and wont ever) do that, I'm trying to be diplomatic here. It just feels like I'm the only person trying to be diplomatic, and that no-one here thinks us modders even deserve a bit of credit for the countless hours we put into our creations.

You and every other mod maker believes (and rightfully so) that they deserve credit, that being said human nature is to be lazy, we will take the path of least resistance to our destination. I am many others will not contact authors for permission to use their works, frankly I have no intent of asking someone that has made their work publicly available for permissions.

You want to see credit for a modders work then go look in the mod makers market, that is one area of this forum I could swear was ripped from minecraftforum.net because in every 'here is my mod, what do you think' topic it's a mix between 3 things, thank you's, suggestions and complaints same here as there.

At the end of the day expecting the average person to go out of their way to contact you with a generic 'can I use this' mail so you can respond with an equally generic message of approval just you setting yourself up for this. If that is truly what you want then either accept that not everyone will take the additional but OPTIONAL step of contacting you or take measures to make it less optional to satisfy your desire for direct credit

[Neowulf]

Why does everyone seem against me on this? He posted this BEFORE I posted anything;

"Do it, what's he going to do, sue me? Mod permissions are complete BS, if you're willingly modding a licensed game you have no rights to claim some one can't use that mod."

Firstly from what I understand the underlined part is against the pack T&C as shown when you create a pack. But more to the point, I don't see how a statement like that is absolutely fine and when I get offended by it I'm suddenly the bad guy - if you can explain that to me, please do. I did say in one of my replies that it was this that got him into my blacklist, and that I don't blacklist people just because they didn't ask my permission.

I assume you're refering to guideline #2 "Insulting modders or permissions in your description or pack title is strictly forbidden and will result in a permanent ban from the system."? Please explain to me where his views on modpack permissions are in the pack title or description.

As for why people are siding with his view instead of yours, please continue below.

That's certainly not how I wanted my stance to come off. I simply thing it's fair to, if not ask me, at least have a link back to my page or something. Is that alone so much to ask? That truly does take a matter of seconds. I'd like it if people ask me, it shows my mod is popular, makes me happy and I get a new friend - but frankly so long as they at least link my page I don't really care that much. It's when they don't even bother with that it's just... offensive.

And, like I just said, I wouldn't blacklist someone for just not asking me. That would just be petty; the blacklist was originally designed to be for people who actively griefed the testing/citygen build server for example, people who have a directly detrimental effect on the progress of the mod. Techimon is the first (and currently only) person to have been added for his verbal abuse and clear lack of respect for the modding community.

First off, yes I believe linkbacks to be perfectly fair. Infact I believe his intention was to create them, since the techimon licensing&permissions tab does state "Credit is due to the modders. Click the inks in the description to see their mod pages and maybe even donate to them if you're feeling generous!" which is not the default for that tab (default is completely empty and therefor hidden).

I dare say that if you had lead off with "Can I atleast get my mod in the list setup as a link to my page?" or something similar, then the whole discussion would have gone in a vastly different direction. You would have come off as a completely reasonable person asking for something that should be provided as a general kindness to the users anyway. But you didn't. You lead off like a gradeschooler on the playground.

Here's the thing. You may not intend for your words to be interpreted as I stated, but they are. If everyone can play as long as they do some action which you claim is inconsequential, then why require it at all? Tjhe most logical explanation is you want control.

To put it in a game perspective: If you've ever played halflife 2 then you might remember the cityguard at the beginning commanding you to pick up a can he knocked over and throw it away. That's not just a simple tutorial on grabbing stuff, it's mean to drill it into you that these guys are enslaving you. That inconsequential act reminds you that you will do as he says because he's in charge and you are powerless.

It would be very easy for me to add similar code to GregTech and block Technic from working at all with my mods - I don't want to (and wont ever) do that, I'm trying to be diplomatic here. It just feels like I'm the only person trying to be diplomatic, and that no-one here thinks us modders even deserve a bit of credit for the countless hours we put into our creations.

Funny you should mention gregtech. Greg just added the code out of the blue and demanded kaker beg him before the mod would be allowed in a technic pack, but no one was even considering using it to begin with.

The only that came of his rambling is better awareness of the force directory change feature, which is a great way for someone to install packs onto secondary drives or USB storage and save space.

As for diplomacy, if you're trying to be diplomatic you're doing a horrible job. A good diplomat doesn't open with the stick then offer the carrot if they ask nicely for it.

To be perfectly clear. You are not the champion of modders, you're a little baron trying to explain to the dirty peasants why they should be thanking you for the privilege to bow to you and being utterly confused when they start sharpening the guillotine.

Not that there is even much of a cause to champion. The two examples provided are one misunderstanding and one neglected to actually provide promised links. You seem to think there's rampant villain mustache twirling as everyone here plots to steal your work and exploit it for fame and fortune, when the reality is pretty much "I think this mod is pretty cool, if you agree you can toss a couple dollars towards the author as a thank you."

Ugh, it's too late to be writing this.

[Flenix]

I can't be bothered to argue this anymore. I've tried to be reasonable here; you said asking people to message me is to much so I agreed simply linking back is OK, then you say even that is too much?

I give up, I'll just keep future updates of my mods private for my own servers use instead. If this is how the technic community really feels then I have no reason to release my mods anymore. I make mods so people can enjoy them and all I ask is a little credit; if a load of people are simply gonna shout me down over the internet when I ask for that, then I give up.

(Also, I never claimed to be the champion of modders or anything like that. Frankly I was amazed when my mods got any downloads at all)

[lukeb28]

I give up, I'll just keep future updates of my mods private for my own servers use instead. If this is how the technic community really feels then I have no reason to release my mods anymore. I make mods so people can enjoy them and all I ask is a little credit; if a load of people are simply gonna shout me down over the internet when I ask for that, then I give up.

So, you are giving up making public releases due to one community making you feel butt hurt? There are more modded players than the Technic community. FTB is a large part of the modding scene as well. Not to mention that both Technic and FTB combined are dwarfed by the size of the players who play modded but not with packs. You are stopping because you don't like maybe 20% (Not a real number, just a guess) of the whole modded community, and causing 100% of it to lose your mod.

Bravo. Your mod might not be on ForgeCraft but a mod is a mod and taking it down for a bit of butt hurt is saddening. I hate seeing people getting turned away for something so petty as this.

Ah well, twas' a funny read to see one lose it on us again. :twisted:

[Munaus]

One developer who got angry at one person puts the blame on everyone.... A totally unique behaviour...

Ah well, twas' a funny read to see one lose it on us again.

This wasnt funny. Just plain stupid and redundant.

[Neowulf]

I can't be bothered to argue this anymore. I've tried to be reasonable here; you said asking people to message me is to much so I agreed simply linking back is OK, then you say even that is too much?

Evidence that you haven't even bothered to read what I wrote. Bravo.

What part of "yes I believe linkbacks to be perfectly fair" are you having trouble parsing?

I give up, I'll just keep future updates of my mods private for my own servers use instead. If this is how the technic community really feels then I have no reason to release my mods anymore. I make mods so people can enjoy them and all I ask is a little credit; if a load of people are simply gonna shout me down over the internet when I ask for that, then I give up.

I have to wonder if you came here for this very purpose, to argue a bit then make a show of giving up in the face of the perceived villains who steal your work and cackle about it.

Please tell me who is claiming they made your mod? Amaxter sure isn't, and that majortaylor guy looks more like a bad translation job that needs fixing than anything sinister.

And I love how your two examples out of 180,000+ packs are supposed to be evidence of rampant Snidley Whiplash behavior emulation.

(Also, I never claimed to be the champion of modders or anything like that. Frankly I was amazed when my mods got any downloads at all)

I'm trying to be diplomatic here. It just feels like I'm the only person trying to be diplomatic, and that no-one here thinks us modders even deserve a bit of credit for the countless hours we put into our creations

That looks like an attempt to defend your fellow "oppressed modders" to me.

How about this, I'll tell you something I kept secret because frankly I didn't feel the need to divulge it.

I'm a programmer myself and I've been making mods for games since 1998. I don't know how old you are, but my guess is you were learning your ABCs at that point still.

My first mod was for the game Starsiege: Tribes, a fun open world shooter with jetpacks and deployables. It was inspired by both a quake2 modification called weapons factory (which was a copy of team fortress for quake 1) and one of the most popular mods for Tribes at the rime, Renegades. Renegades was fun, but the developer was very jealous of his stuff so even though mods were created with simple human readable text scripts using a javascript-like language, he implemented an obfuscation scheme by removing every newline and bit of whitespacing he could.

Now, after getting my mod to a semi-playable state I requested some help testing it. One response was from someone reportedly on the Renegades team, looking to test it out. I tossed him the download link and called it good.

A month later it came out that the Renegades dev was stealing parts of code from other mods and claiming them as his own. The guy wrote very little of the actual mod, mainly just implementing other stuff then tweaking it to fit his own vision. That's why the guy had so jealously protected his source, so others couldn't find out he stole from them.

Guess who found a large chunk of his code in the newly released Renegades update?

Funny thing is, I've always been a proponent of open source and frankly had no problem passing around my code to other mod devs to help them out. At one point the developer of the other major mod at the time, Shifter, wanted to know how I did remote controlled vehicles (a feature everyone wanted but no one got going) and we figured out there really was only one way, which we had both separately developed (co-opt the vehicle mount code for a set of flyers to create a 2 way link, then redo the beacon deployment code to instead trigger viewpoint and control change to the linked vehicle).

The point of this is you're blowing up at a modpacker, a guy who puts mods in a zip file, and treating it like the guy stole your whole source and slapped his name on it while screaming "I made this! It's mine! All credit goes to me!" This is so far removed from real code theft it's not even funny.

[ThePagan]

I'm not sure I have a lot of room to even add to this conversation as I'm merely an aspiring modder at the moment. Still watching videos and reading books and trying to wrap my head around java, but here it is anyway.

As far as permission and stuff goes. I think requiring people to ask for permission is pretty dumb. However asking people to include a link to the public page you made about your mod is quite reasonable. Also asking people to email you to let you know is reasonable as well. Some people might like to be informed just how popular their mod.

I would assume most people really don't know or care what mod the different blocks/items they like comes from, just that it looks good or does what they want. I don't see why people would not want their mods included in a modpack. You made the mod to enhance the minecraft experience. If I had a mod that everyone wanted in their modpack, I would be pretty happy(like NEI, I see that all over MC youtube videos, I bet ChickenBones is proud of that). Why try to limit the mod to a smaller group of people or limit the ability of people to tailor a modpack to their creative vision?

[Munaus]

Why try to limit the mod to a smaller group of people

Because of that. Small group of people = less overabundance of bug reports. That was the main complaint coming from mod devs when technic started. Technic was slow on updates, due to the amount of mods and making stuff work, so the mod devs got a lot of crying kids saying "item A broke my world!" when the bug had already been fixed many updates ago.