MC Snapshot 12w18a - It begins.

[Torezu]

So, this was just announced: Mojang "has begun the long process of separating the server logic from the client." Essentially, this means SSP and SMP will hopefully be integrated in the future, at least that's my understanding. Anyone with more experience in Java workings want to comment on how that will affect mods, or will it just make Technic and Tekkit the same thing after it's fully completed?

I may just be naive in hoping that some of my favorite SSP mods will make it to SMP...

[hoho]

Depends on how they plan to do it. If all logic is done on server-side then all mods will move there and client will simply have visual "fluff". Assuming they do it right then yeah, MP and SP will essentially become the same thing and mod made for one will work with everything.

[pixelkitty]

I wonder how much this will affect system requirements. I'm not sure how much load the logic in question is responsible for. Will we need beefier servers with the chance of lighter weight clients, or will it not really change that much?

I suppose it really depends on how they go about implementing it.

[Neowulf]

As long as they don't royally screw it up, the system requirements shouldn't change at all.

It should get atleast a little better as stuff like chunk loading, the chat system, and other SSP vs SMP differences are cut down to just the SMP implementation.

[miniboxer]

I wonder how much this will affect system requirements. I'm not sure how much load the logic in question is responsible for. Will we need beefier servers with the chance of lighter weight clients, or will it not really change that much?

I suppose it really depends on how they go about implementing it.

There is absolutely zero need to panic about performance requirements, because the part about inviting players into your ssp world is entirely optional, you don't even need to do that. And then you get the retards with laptops that are like, "YAY, NOW I CAN'T PLAY SINGLE PLAYER ON MY LAPTOP ANYMORE, THANKS MOJANG!", and mess everything up because they are too stupid to understand simple logic.

[jakj]

Except there have already been reliable reports about introduced lag in singleplayer worlds due to the IPC architecture even though multiplayer worlds now have less lag.

Are you willing to have entity and movement lag in your SINGLEplayer worlds so that servers have better performance? Didn't think so.

[NightKev]

I have to wonder how exactly they're doing this. Are they completely cutting out anything that wasn't part of the client's SMP abilities and going from there? Last I heard, there's a shitton of graphics code embedded into the program logic in an incredibly stupid way (dat notch etc)...

[jakj]

If they really want to do this right, it wil take a long time, which means we can actually get a 1.2.5 pack out and enjoy it before 1.3 hits.

Considering how they half-assed the 4096 id expansion, I expect them to give up partway through and release a buggy pile of shit that lags like hell on singleplayer.

[NightKev]

Yeah, I'm not expecting to use 1.3 at all. Half the mods probably won't bother updating, while the other half will only be able to update by the time 1.4 makes it out due to MCP probably being set back a long way.

[miniboxer]

Except there have already been reliable reports about introduced lag in singleplayer worlds due to the IPC architecture even though multiplayer worlds now have less lag.

Are you willing to have entity and movement lag in your SINGLEplayer worlds so that servers have better performance? Didn't think so.

you don't really understand what I was trying to say, there may be slight ammounts of what is now currently called "server lag", where the server's info is being sent too slow, but it won't be actually more physically taxing on your computer.

[hoho]

but it won't be actually more physically taxing on your computer.

Assuming they plan to have the SSP just run both the server and the client on same machine then there will be some overhead when instead of directly calling a function it now goes through network layers. It shouldn't be huge and any normal application shouldn't get enough extra lags that you could even measure but as MC is far from normal anything can happen.

[jakj]

If multiple people have mentioned it, tjen it's noticeable. Surely I don't have to explain that logic to you.

[TheGuy]

There's an actual, long thread about the 12w18a bugs.

(It IS in Reddit, though :\ )

Here 'tis:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/t8wjc/mojang_needs_your_help_collecting_differences/

[NightKev]

I wonder if one of the problems plaguing Minecraft is that they're always working on too many things at once...

[Beer]

Snaps are just another way of saying, "Yes, we do have ADD. Why do you ask? Hey, now that's a great idea! SWEATERS FOR EVERYONE! Next snapshot!"

[The Merchant of Menace]

Snapshots are much better than having Minecraft 2.1.2.4.5.6.6.2.4.5.2.4 coming out and breaking compatibility with everything though.

[Beer]

Snapshots are much better than having Minecraft 2.1.2.4.5.6.6.2.4.5.2.4 coming out and breaking compatibility with everything though.

Granted.

But jesus it's really annoying.

[miniboxer]

Snapshots are much better than having Minecraft 2.1.2.4.5.6.6.2.4.5.2.4 coming out and breaking compatibility with everything though.

GASP! you are now a global moderator!

[NightKev]

Snapshots are much better than having Minecraft 2.1.2.4.5.6.6.2.4.5.2.4 coming out and breaking compatibility with everything though.

The snapshots aren't really a replacement for that, they're just dev builds that no one knew existed until they started releasing them. Otherwise we wouldn't have a Minecraft 1.2.5...

[jakj]

Public snapshots are better because tools like MCP can be ready before the release is actually out (as happened with 1.2.5: MCP was updated for almost a week before it actually came out). This makes the transition slightly easier, because it makes Modloader/Forge faster to update, meaning all mods using Modloader/Forge are faster to update.

[TheGuy]

Snapshots are like technic dev builds without the mods.. They're highly unstable, buggy as hell, but have new features.

I always use new snapshots (and technic dev builds :>) and they're just epic. I only played 12w18a for a few hours but I didn't experience any bugs afaik. Strangely enough I actually have 60FPS when playing 12w18a and 1-10FPS on 1.2.5/technic (I always set 256mb for vanilla)

[NightKev]

That's like saying apples are like apples. The snapshots are literally public dev builds.

Also it's not strange that Technic gives you lower FPS than vanilla (even considering the state the snapshot is in) because it has a billion mods in it that all do a billion things. It has higher requirements than vanilla.