Jay? Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I'm no scientist, but I'm always struck by the fact that so few people acknowledge the possibility that FTL travel isn't possible and we aren't going to meet aliens, just due to the enormous size of space. Hell, the universe could be littered with sentient life forms, but if they can't get anywhere, they're probably not going to find one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylord Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I'm no scientist, but I'm always struck by the fact that so few people acknowledge the possibility that FTL travel isn't possible and we aren't going to meet aliens, just due to the enormous size of space. Hell, the universe could be littered with sentient life forms, but if they can't get anywhere, they're probably not going to find one another. I would rather say it's not accessible with our current understanding of the universe's physics. We have no idea what wonders we could discover tomorrow, and those wonders could include a way to access FTL travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay? Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I'm not saying that FTL IS impossible, just that it's a far cry from being a sure thing. There is a very real chance that FTL is nothing but fantasy. Also, that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Humanity is capable of plenty of wonders even at our current technological level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckimus Maximus Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 As of yet, humans can still do much, much more. I one day a rover can only go about 500 meters. The main point was that robots do it cheaper, and safer. As humans are comparatively fragile, and require big, expensive life support systems. Even though the rover can only go 500m a day it has the potential to be active for as much as 7 years. Humans can't beat that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_DarthMoogle Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 What's wrong with the Rover only going 500m a day? It should've been doing that 10 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MephistosChan Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I'm not saying that FTL IS impossible, just that it's a far cry from being a sure thing. There is a very real chance that FTL is nothing but fantasy. Also, that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Humanity is capable of plenty of wonders even at our current technological level. You don't need FTL to conquer the Galaxy, but you do need patience. It is still a part of the Fermi Paradox that we don't see any aliens in the night sky, after all, they may not want to come here but their radio waves would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondeye83 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 You don't need FTL to conquer the Galaxy, but you do need patience. It is still a part of the Fermi Paradox that we don't see any aliens in the night sky, after all, they may not want to come here but their radio waves would. however, they might live more than a few million light years away,ill take for their radio waves to reach us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimpleGuy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Bring back Project Orion : Where our spaceships poot 'n scoot from nuclear weapons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MephistosChan Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 however, they might live more than a few million light years away,ill take for their radio waves to reach us? But then they'd be in a different galaxy, as ours is only about 100,000 light years across, but it doesn't matter anyway, it wont be a 2 way chat, we'll just be listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderan Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Who knows, maybe for some bizarre reason we are they only ones to discover the use of radio waves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okamikk Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Who knows, maybe for some bizarre reason we are they only ones to discover the use of radio waves. the chances of that are extremely slim, we had radios when people still thought that the earth was flat, and the sun went around the earth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MephistosChan Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 the chances of that are extremely slim, we had radios when people still thought that the earth was flat, and the sun went around the earth! On the grounds that there are still people who think the world is flat then your statement is correct, however Copernicus changed the accepted world view from earth centric to sun centric around 1514, and shall we pick a date of 1880 (it's a grey area) for the presentation of the spark gap radio to the Royal Society. But it's not unlikely that an alien race would go down a similar technological path to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torezu Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 But then they'd be in a different galaxy, as ours is only about 100,000 light years across, but it doesn't matter anyway, it wont be a 2 way chat, we'll just be listening. Assuming quantum entanglement is a possible method of FTL communications, there's at least a decent chance that we will have FTL comms in the next couple of decades. They just might be slow for data transfer, and we'll have to go back to Morse code or something. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylord Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Assuming quantum entanglement is a possible method of FTL communications, there's at least a decent chance that we will have FTL comms in the next couple of decades. They just might be slow for data transfer, and we'll have to go back to Morse code or something. Maybe you're just joking, I'm not sure, but I would have thought binary code would be lighter if we wanted to transmit data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torezu Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Maybe you're just joking, I'm not sure, but I would have thought binary code would be lighter if we wanted to transmit data. Yes, joking. Since you would be using entangled particles, with matching states, any system based on quantum entanglement would be built for binary code. The advantage there is that you wouldn't have to mess with that little tap key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MephistosChan Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Quantum entanglement is still governed by light speed, no information can be passed faster than the speed of light. And, of course you'd have to entangle the particles, then transport one to the receiver and then transmit your message. Honestly, there is zero chance of FTL comms in the near future. There isn't a theoretical framework for how it might be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torezu Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Quantum entanglement is still governed by light speed, no information can be passed faster than the speed of light. And, of course you'd have to entangle the particles, then transport one to the receiver and then transmit your message. Honestly, there is zero chance of FTL comms in the near future. There isn't a theoretical framework for how it might be done. The point of quantum entanglement is that it's not governed by the speed of light. And yes, you would have to transport entangled particles, unless you could somehow figure out how to entangle particles at a distance, in which case, teleporter, anyone? But you are correct, there's currently no framework for FTL Comms because at the moment we don't need them. There are no places we need to communicate with that aren't closer than a couple of light-seconds, unless we have a manned mission to Mars in the near future, or Curiosity needs real-time command transmission. Of course, single-particle entanglement means sending text would be rather slow - video, well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorcer Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 You guys just got really...ummm smart? I guess? I have no clue what is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MephistosChan Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 The point of quantum entanglement is that it's not governed by the speed of light. And yes, you would have to transport entangled particles, unless you could somehow figure out how to entangle particles at a distance, in which case, teleporter, anyone? But you are correct, there's currently no framework for FTL Comms because at the moment we don't need them. There are no places we need to communicate with that aren't closer than a couple of light-seconds, unless we have a manned mission to Mars in the near future, or Curiosity needs real-time command transmission. Of course, single-particle entanglement means sending text would be rather slow - video, well... As Einstein called it,"Spooky action at a distance" but that is it, unfortunately. To quote Loreal, 'Here's the science bit..' According to Einsteinian Relativity nothing can travel faster that the speed of light, this applies to mass or information. With quantum entanglement the information about (for instance) the spin of an electron is stored within the quantum system. So the 2 electrons need to be separated (as I said above), however, to communicate effectively (ie to pass information) you would have to agree how each bit was to be transmitted, ie make a '1' an up spin and a zero a down spin. To send the message you would just select the corresponding bits so that ASCII "A" is a 7 bit binary code for 32, ie 1000000 and it becomes up, down, down, down...etc. However, to send this code you must first measure the spin of the electrons, this would cause the quantum entanglement to collapse (decoherence) and means no information has been passed and therefore relativity hasn't been violated. As to your point about there being no need for FTL comms, why do you think these massive financial (share dealing) companies are situated in cities, close to the stockmarket, even though the inner city rents are enormous and they could do the buying and selling from anywhere? It's because they trade electronically and the milli seconds they save by being on top of the stockmarket mean that it is financially necessary for them to be there, it gives them that much of an advantage. Those guys would pay for FTL comms with their mother's souls to shave those delays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okamikk Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 As Einstein called it,"Spooky action at a distance" but that is it, unfortunately. To quote Loreal, 'Here's the science bit..' According to Einsteinian Relativity nothing can travel faster that the speed of light, this applies to mass or information. With quantum entanglement the information about (for instance) the spin of an electron is stored within the quantum system. So the 2 electrons need to be separated (as I said above), however, to communicate effectively (ie to pass information) you would have to agree how each bit was to be transmitted, ie make a '1' an up spin and a zero a down spin. To send the message you would just select the corresponding bits so that ASCII "A" is a 7 bit binary code for 32, ie 1000000 and it becomes up, down, down, down...etc. However, to send this code you must first measure the spin of the electrons, this would cause the quantum entanglement to collapse (decoherence) and means no information has been passed and therefore relativity hasn't been violated. As to your point about there being no need for FTL comms, why do you think these massive financial (share dealing) companies are situated in cities, close to the stockmarket, even though the inner city rents are enormous and they could do the buying and selling from anywhere? It's because they trade electronically and the milli seconds they save by being on top of the stockmarket mean that it is financially necessary for them to be there, it gives them that much of an advantage. Those guys would pay for FTL comms with their mother's souls to shave those delays. and that is where the theory stays a theory. also, i would totally accept soul of their first-born in exchange for FTL communication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe5 Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 this may not be ftl travel but I think we are closer than many of you think: http://www.planetaryresources.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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