Why was Railcraft removed?

[Teraku]

So I've seen Railcraft will be removed in the latest version. I'd like to ask: Why? What kind of requirements did CovertJaguar set which Technic doesn't meet?

Just curious.

[SemiPr0]

Covert Jaguar requested the removal unless the Technic team could directly provide him with proof of permissions for usage of all the mods in Tekkit Lite.

Far as I can tell a lot of the mods in Tekkit Lite are being used on implied permissions from the authors in their development posts, ergo none of them have inherent restrictions on modpack use at this time.

This would mean, to me, that there may not be, other than a few distinct mod authors like Eloraam and what not, who have given direct written authorization for mod usage. So there is no list of "Yes thats fine" signatures the Technic team can hand out to inquiring/demanding minds.

This is just a theory of course but it makes a fair bit of sense as things go.

[Cheap Shot]

Speculation is rarely accurate or valuable.

[SemiPr0]

Speculation is generally all we have in these situations. I mean I could have implied that CJ was <insert adjective here>, but I thought I'd take a higher road.

Perhaps there is a list of permissions given and Kaker doesn't feel like CJ has the right to demand it. I dunno. I was just offering up a fairly non-inflammatory possible explanation.

Facts:

CJ asked for it to be removed due to terms of inclusion he felt were not met.

Its being removed.

No further speculation from me.

[Rexz]

Are we definitely sure its being removed? I could only find CovertJaguar's request and a post stating that talks had been underway...

[Azeryn]

Yes

Are we definitely sure its being removed? I could only find CovertJaguar's request and a post stating that talks had been underway...

Yes. Look at the most recent news on the Technic website. Look near the bottom.

On another sadder note…

Railcraft will be regretfully removed in the upcoming version of Tekkit Lite until we can meet the requirements set forth by CoverJaguar. Server owners please be aware that in the upcoming version of Tekkit Lite (0.5.3) RailCraft will be removed.

Thanks!

[DarkMalfunction]

I don't get why a lot of mod authors don't like the technic pack. Has Flowerchild brainwashed them all?

[SemiPr0]

I wish I knew who dong princess was. But perhaps its better if I leave it up to my imagination, I mean it could be Stoya or something....mmm Stoya.

[theprolo]

I think he's fine with Technic, it's just part of his official permissions which Technic hasn't met.

[Rexz]

Is there still a way of manually putting railcraft back in? I love this mod and wanted to use tekkit lite too.

[theprolo]

Well, he didn't take drastic action as far as I know, so perhaps it's a good chance to try out that new modding feature in the launcher.

[Durkadur]

Well I can confirm that CovertJaguar indeed wants proof that Tekkit has permission for ALL mods in Tekkit Lite. I get the feeling this is a old grudge from CovertJaguar. The Tekkit team never got permission from him to use Railcraft in the original Tekkit pack. Since it's old he doesn't care about it now - but Tekkit Lite isn't old.

The question is this: Will the Tekkit team bother to get permission from mod developers now when they haven't in the past? If they don't I get the feeling that Railcraft isn't the only mod that will disappear in the future. This is a dark cloud looming over shiny Tekkit Town.

[SemiPr0]

Slightly off topic on the issue but if modders are concerned about permissions, why aren't they targeting server operators that are running their mods and using them to make a fair profit off a 5 dollar a month MC server, rather than modpacks which simply make using their mods less of a hang up nightmare for most non-power users? Seems to me like the people that are actually exploiting the usage of MC Modders mods aren't modpack authors, but server operators with a commercial focus.

Anyways sorry for that aside, but seems to me if a modpack needs permission from mod authors surely high volume MC Server operators that are making RL money hand over fist by using their mods should need permission as well, that would be, at least, more logical.

[Xylord]

Slightly off topic on the issue but if modders are concerned about permissions, why aren't they targeting server operators that are running their mods and using them to make a fair profit off a 5 dollar a month MC server, rather than modpacks which simply make using their mods less of a hang up nightmare for most non-power users? Seems to me like the people that are actually exploiting the usage of MC Modders mods aren't modpack authors, but server operators with a commercial focus.

Anyways sorry for that aside, but seems to me if a modpack needs permission from mod authors surely high volume MC Server operators that are making RL money hand over fist by using their mods should need permission as well, that would be, at least, more logical.

Well, because the modders WANT their mod to be used by the server operators. They want to get recognition. The money aspect really is but an excuse, in many cases. The thing, some feel that packs remove from them some of this recognition, even though I don't think it is the case.

[Cheap Shot]

Well I can confirm that CovertJaguar indeed wants proof that Tekkit has permission for ALL mods in Tekkit Lite. I get the feeling this is a old grudge from CovertJaguar. The Tekkit team never got permission from him to use Railcraft in the original Tekkit pack. Since it's old he doesn't care about it now - but Tekkit Lite isn't old.

The question is this: Will the Tekkit team bother to get permission from mod developers now when they haven't in the past? If they don't I get the feeling that Railcraft isn't the only mod that will disappear in the future.

We talked to him in the past and he did not ask for it to be removed in previous versions. He has requested that he would not like it to be in future versions unless we meet his stipulations. There was a misunderstanding and it has be cleared up. We have respectfully honored his decision. We're not horrible nazis. Read the chatlog covertjag posted. Does Icewolf sound like an asshole who doesn't give a shit about the modders? We are people, who put in a lot of personal work and time to help improve modding and the user experience. You could try getting to know us. Right now your words don't match up with current reality.

This is a dark cloud looming over shiny Tekkit Town.

No it's not. Smarten up or get bent.

[theprolo]

I think it's the difference between public and private distribution. While modpacks are public, server packs which require membership to access are private. Free access to anyone server packs are public, and need permissions.

[SemiPr0]

Well, because the modders WANT their mod to be used by the server operators. They want to get recognition. The money aspect really is but an excuse, in many cases. The thing, some feel that packs remove from them some of this recognition, even though I don't think it is the case.

Simple distribution never hurt brand recognition for anyone period.

Steam sure hasn't hurt the game industry well other than kicking the console industry in the nuts lately with their foray into making everyones computer a console.

That aside, half these MC mods I'd have never bothered even getting to know without Tekkit/Technic, I've had Minecraft since early beta way back in 2008, I hadn't played it seriously for a couple years til finding Tekkit, and it was the mods in it that sold it to me and I've really appreciated a lot of work I'd have never experienced without the Tekkit mod pack making the situation a simple process that didn't require power user level understanding to be able to enjoy it.

Whats more these mods became easier to share with friends because of the work the Technic team did to make them work together in a simple, non-conflictory manner, so now I've got friends who had written Minecraft off as good, but no longer all that interesting, that sit around with me on a server I run and we do all kinds of interesting stuff with mods we didn't even know existed.

Simple statement is, I can almost guarantee that without Tekkit, the user base for even the most popular mods of the pack, would be exponentially smaller. And while I suppose its cool to have a small power user clique of people using your stuff, it doesn't exactly gain you any credibility with people outside that circle of high end users.

[Xylord]

Simple distribution never hurt brand recognition for anyone period.

Steam sure hasn't hurt the game industry well other than kicking the console industry in the nuts lately with their foray into making everyones computer a console.

That aside, half these MC mods I'd have never bothered even getting to know without Tekkit/Technic, I've had Minecraft since early beta way back in 2008, I hadn't played it seriously for a couple years til finding Tekkit, and it was the mods in it that sold it to me and I've really appreciated a lot of work I'd have never experienced without the Tekkit mod pack making the situation a simple process that didn't require power user level understanding to be able to enjoy it.

Whats more these mods became easier to share with friends because of the work the Technic team did to make them work together in a simple, non-conflictory manner, so now I've got friends who had written Minecraft off as good, but no longer all that interesting, that sit around with me on a server I run and we do all kinds of interesting stuff with mods we didn't even know existed.

Simple statement is, I can almost guarantee that without Tekkit, the user base for even the most popular mods of the pack, would be exponentially smaller. And while I suppose its cool to have a small power user clique of people using your stuff, it doesn't exactly gain you any credibility with people outside that circle of high end users.

Who said this argument was rational? Certainly not me. ;)

[Durkadur]

We talked to him in the past and he did not ask for it to be removed in previous versions. He has requested that he would not like it to be in future versions unless we meet his stipulations. There was a misunderstanding and it has be cleared up. We have respectfully honored his decision. We're not horrible nazis. Read the chatlog covertjag posted. Does Icewolf sound like an asshole who doesn't give a shit about the modders? We are people, who put in a lot of personal work and time to help improve modding and the user experience. You could try getting to know us. Right now your words don't match up with current reality.

First of all, I'm sorry if I came of as a douche. I should say that english is not my native language so I apologize if I have been rude. I'm really happy with all the work that the Technic team put into the launcher and Tekkit. If not for you guys, me and my friends would have stopped playing Minecraft many months ago. We would never even had tried a single mod. So a big thanks to all you guys from me and my friends from our server.

I'm just trying to get a grip of the situation here. I have not seen the chat log with Icewolf. I could not for my mind understand why a modder wouldn't want their work in the biggest Minecraft mod pack. It just didn't make sense to me. So I contacted CovertJaguar on IRC and he said what I wrote earlier. That you didn't have permission to use his mod in Tekkit and that he 'tolerated' it because you where the only mod pack at the time. With Tekkit Lite he wants you to show him that you have permission for all mods before he gives his permission for Railcraft.

Know I don't know why he said this. I'm not sure why he feels he is in a position to make demands on you guys. But this is the reality. Why did I say I felt this to be a dark cloud? Because that's how I feel. I really do want to switch my server over to Tekkit Lite. It seems perfect for our small server, and everything is nice and updated. But we really like Railcraft and I get the feelings this isn't going to get solved. So this is an issue. Maybe not a big one for sure - but an issue never the less.

No it's not. Smarten up or get bent.

I will try to smarten up then.

[Xylord]

But we really like Railcraft and I get the feelings this isn't going to get solved. So this is an issue. Maybe not a big one for sure - but an issue never the less.

I will try to smarten up then.

Just thought I'd remember you that you can use the zip feature to add it easily.

[Retriever Central]

fuck this im staying on tekkit classic now

[Durkadur]

Just thought I'd remember you that you can use the zip feature to add it easily.

That is true. I guess we could just add Railcraft to future releases of Tekkit Lite. Well OK "problem" solved then :)

[Deadgye]

Each tekkit release could just recommend that it would work well with a specific version of railcraft. No distribution? No ground for CovertJaguar to get his panties in a bunch over.

That'd be good enough for me. Although at that point I'd probably make sure I bypass all his adfly links.

[Lethosos]

Or wait for the unofficial "Railcraft Edition" that some wag will maintain for us.

[spartanyanni]

Each tekkit release could just recommend that it would work well with a specific version of railcraft. No distribution? No ground for CovertJaguar to get his panties in a bunch over.

That'd be good enough for me. Although at that point I'd probably make sure I bypass all his adfly links.

First off all... Don't be a moron. Honestly.

Covert is many things. Most of them good. But he is also NOT a few things. That involves stupid. Your "plan" would

A: Frankly, be a dick move as it basically goes against the wishes of the mod maker.

B: Easily be the most thinly veiled attempt to bypass.. Well, anything.