soccermiles Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 I know Technic has been taking a lot of flak for the Platform. I understand the immediate reactions I've been seeing, but after a few hours of thought, I feel all you good people working on the Platform and the new Technic Launcher deserve some serious applause. You've solved the ultimate problem associated with Minecraft Modding! You've created a central location where people can gain access to mod packs: A means for modders to enforce permissions, and you've done so with immense foresight. Below are the issues that even I, puny though I am, can see you have masterfully resolved... 1: Modder Permissions Many times, a modder wishes to keep track of who's using his/her mod so he/she can make sure nobody is violating the permissions set forth by him/her. Until now, there were NO effective ways to do this. Although the Platform has provided the context for a dramatic increase in the number of mod packs using a given mod, it has also provided a subtle means for modders to track mod usage. It is now possible, given the newly gained centralization of mod packs, to create a program that downloads each zip in succession, and checks it for a given mod by an arbitrary procedure. Even better, this method only applies to public mod packs, which are the specific concern of modders. 2: Traffic Jam Caused by Solution #1 It is immediately evident, once we've established solution #1, that it would kill the server, if every single modder out there was constantly trying to scan for evil mod packers. The solution is already in place! Since the Platform does not host the mod packs, traffic will not be an issue: The Platform is just a means of directing users to their mod packs, and mod packers to their users! 3: User, Modder and Mod-Packer Happiness In addition to solving the problems stated above, you've made the launcher even more user-friendly (if that's even possible), and you've provided a means for mod packers to give their mods a personality (things like icons and backgrounds) that is completely available to the public! No longer shall the modder need to worry about who violated his permissions today, or yesterday, or the day before that. No longer will the Mod-Packer need to provide support on the installation and maintenance of his mod-pack (excepting exceptional cases). No longer will the user be at a loss over this "Custom ZIP" thingamajig. Thank you for the Platform, the Launcher and your support for this community. You've helped to bring users, modders and packers together in a new and innovative way. Quote
spartanyanni Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 We deserve serious applesauce. Here ya go youtube.com/watch?v=NIbtYzjLuMo Quote
spartanyanni Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 No link? Hmmm... Well, it was just a link to a video called applesauce. Quote
GreenWolf13 Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 I think you're the only person who actually thought of this as a method to enforce permissions. Up until now, everyone has been seeing it as a way to bypass permissions. Good work I guess. Quote
soccermiles Posted March 5, 2013 Author Posted March 5, 2013 It's hard to ignore when all the mod packs are moving to the same place. If I were a modder trying to enforce my permissions, the first problem I'd run into would be finding where the modpacks I need to look at are. If they're all on the Platform, I don't even have to search. We just need to develop the following functions for a program... 1) Iterate through the public mod packs on the Platform 2) Download the current pack (as a zip) 3) Scan the current zip for your mod (this can be totally reconfigured by the modder) I foresee the development of several very tricky ways for a modder to have his mod "watermark" any mod pack it's part of. Quote
Cheap Shot Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 It's hard to ignore when all the mod packs are moving to the same place. If I were a modder trying to enforce my permissions, the first problem I'd run into would be finding where the modpacks I need to look at are. If they're all on the Platform, I don't even have to search. We just need to develop the following functions for a program... 1) Iterate through the public mod packs on the Platform 2) Download the current pack (as a zip) 3) Scan the current zip for your mod (this can be totally reconfigured by the modder) I foresee the development of several very tricky ways for a modder to have his mod "watermark" any mod pack it's part of. Or give blessings to everyone! Then no one would have to waste any time on stuff like this. One of the most talented modders (maybe the most) with one of the best permission policies: http://machinemuse.net/modpacks.php She doesn't lose any sleep over modpacks, and has plenty of time to keep making Modular Powersuits better and better. Quote
Maxis010 Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 Or give blessings to everyone! Then no one would have to waste any time on stuff like this. This, a thousand times this. Because pack authors can (and will) ignore modders if they so please because there is nothing to really stop them Also packs can be "Private" which removes them from the public listing but still allows Platform to download them via direct link AFAIK As for "watermarking", there shall be no mods phoning home if they server host doesn't want them to, and if it sneaks data out anyway then like hell I for one want that on my server no matter what it offers because I've got content which I am under an NDA for stored on that same machine, and I'm sure other server owners will feel the same way for their own reasons Quote
SeanWcom Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 Agreed - much kudos to the devs! Especially those working on the TechnicSolder stuff. I was able to get it up and running on my own web host, so it's now MUCH easier for my users to do incremental updates of only the mods that change. VERY VERY AWESOME! Quote
soccermiles Posted March 5, 2013 Author Posted March 5, 2013 The "Public" versus "Private" issue does settle itself quite nicely once you add the "hidden" option. My impression was that licenses included in mods are legally binding for the downloader, regardless of how much he/she may care about it. Maybe I'm wrong? Maybe that's a disputed subject? Anyway, this does more than let modders spy on mod packers. It also lets them gather statistics to determine how successful their mods are. As for "watermarking", I didn't mean they would make mods that phone home during runtime. I meant that a mod's installation would be unavoidably noticeable to anyone observing the zip who knew what to look for. (so evil mod-packers gain nothing from simply renaming everything in the mod). One of the greatest things about the progress Dev has made is that none of the parties involved will have any need to do immoral things, and it discourages conflict. Quote
Mooseman9 Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 My impression was that licenses included in mods are legally binding for the downloader, regardless of how much he/she may care about it. Maybe I'm wrong? Yes, you are very wrong on that point. Quote
soccermiles Posted March 5, 2013 Author Posted March 5, 2013 Here's Wikipedia on the subject... "All software is copyright protected, except material in the public domain." "Public domain software is software that has been placed in the public domain, in other words there is absolutely no ownership such as copyright, trademark, or patent." "Some jurisdictions have required formalities to establishing copyright, but most recognize copyright in any completed work, without formal registration. Generally, copyright is enforced as a civil matter, though some jurisdictions do apply criminal sanctions." This makes me feel that modders can, in fact, put legally binding licenses on their mods. Mods are software, and are not in public domain since the modders have taken the time to place a copyright on the mods, which in most jurisdictions requires no formalities whatsoever. But, I'm not sure what kind of proceedings would make sense if a mod pack was using a mod without the modder's permission. Quote
danidas Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 Unfortunately for the modded minecraft community it is not as cut and dry as that. As mods fall into a legal grey area as distributive works of minecraft's copyright. Which makes their own copy rights very shaky in the legal world and most would not qualify to even think of copyright unless their changes were so different from minecraft that it would be impossible to mistake. In other words It is possible that one mod has a valid copy right but another one would not due to this. Quote
soccermiles Posted March 5, 2013 Author Posted March 5, 2013 Here's the Mojang Terms of Use on the subject... "Any tools you write for the game from scratch belongs to you." "Plugins for the game also belong to you and you can do whatever you want with them, as long as you don't sell them for money." Based on this, it looks to me like Mojang accounts for this in their policy, although they "reserve the final say regarding what constitutes a tool/plugin and what doesn't." On a side note, I know some mod developers make money through a hosting service like adf.ly. Is that a violation of the terms of use? Quote
GreenWolf13 Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 Here's the Mojang Terms of Use on the subject... "Any tools you write for the game from scratch belongs to you." "Plugins for the game also belong to you and you can do whatever you want with them, as long as you don't sell them for money." Based on this, it looks to me like Mojang accounts for this in their policy, although they "reserve the right to define what is a plugin and what is not". On a side note, I know some mod developers make money through a hosting service like adf.ly. Is that a violation of the terms of use? http://wiki.pluspluspack.com/index.php/Copyright Quote
soccermiles Posted March 5, 2013 Author Posted March 5, 2013 Very nice! I guess a mod developer could refuse to provide the mod to someone unless it was someone on their list of "good packers", but then the mod would be unavailable to private packers. Quote
Torezu Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 I think you're looking for the word derivative, and all Minecraft mods, including those that don't even share code with the game, fall into that category. There's no such thing as a legally valid copyright on the code for a Minecraft mod. The only thing that might be copyrightable is the artwork. I believe Greenwolf's reference above explains everything quite clearly. Quote
lukeb28 Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 Can't we just thank the devs and have this discussion somewhere else? Quote
soccermiles Posted March 5, 2013 Author Posted March 5, 2013 Makes sense. I was just sad that it turns out they didn't solve that problem since it didn't exist. Still, the Platform is awesome. Thanks again. I'll be packing mods like a lunatic for the next couple of months. Quote
Torezu Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 Can't we just thank the devs and have this discussion somewhere else? Yes. Yes we can. Quote
MrBRAD Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 You have possibly the worst game playerbase to build a community with and yet these forums are a great place and don't even cost Seriously, well done. To think that all this was originally just one little download link in a forum thread is pretty mindblowing. Thanks for making Minecraft modding a thing that doesn't suck. Quote
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