[1.6.x/1.5.x] Redstone In Motion (Redpower Frames) 2.3.0.0 (October 8)

[Seeker14491]

When a Template Carriage has a pattern stored and is destroyed, it doesn't drop all the Template Carriages used to form the pattern. This makes them basically one-use items. If you realize you messed up the pattern after setting the anchor, you must destroy the anchor and lose all the Template Carriages used to form the pattern. Wouldn't it be better if destroying the Template Carriage yielded all the Template Carriages used to form the pattern? Or make it an option in the config?

Also, I think I found a bug. I built a gate using Template Carriages, you can see it working fine here:

. But after exiting Minecraft and loading up the world again, the computer on top controlling the Carriage Controller got the error "no carriage or too many carriages attached to controller", even though I hadn't changed anything and there was obviously only one carriage attached. Rebooting the ComputerCraft computer didn't fix the issue. Replacing the Carriage Controller fixed the problem.

[jakj]

Wouldn't it be better if destroying the Template Carriage yielded all the Template Carriages used to form the pattern? Or make it an option in the config?

No, I don't think it would be better, but I will make it an option in the config.

Also, I think I found a bug. I built a gate using Template Carriages, you can see it working fine here:

. But after exiting Minecraft and loading up the world again, the computer on top controlling the Carriage Controller got the error "no carriage or too many carriages attached to controller", even though I hadn't changed anything and there was obviously only one carriage attached. Rebooting the ComputerCraft computer didn't fix the issue. Replacing the Carriage Controller fixed the problem.

Putting a block down next to the controller and removing it also works, so somehow it is not receiving its proper update upon load. Will be fixed for next release.

[Spaceshipable]

No, I don't think it would be better, but I will make it an option in the config.

this makes me happy :)

[Spaceshipable]

Power requirement is part of "hardcore mode", so yeah, it's down at the bottom. Honestly, right now the mod is balanced enough: If you feel platform carriages are too cheaty, just don't use them; If you're making decent-sized carriages with just vanilla, that's a lot of fucking wood; and other than some sort of tunnel bore (which is going to need a whole other mod anyway which probably has its own power requirement), the mod doesn't even do anything special like give you diamonds. It just moves things, which you could do yourself. The most you could say is "it's cheaper than silk touch", which is true, but it's a massive pain in the ass to do that if whatever it is needs to move a long distance.

It's on the to-do list because people want it and people deserve to get what they want when it's reasonable, but as I say, it's low on the list, because people should be able to take control of their own play experience.

I don't think it's cheaty really I just think it would add to the depth of the mod and I like a little complexity to test my problem solving skills. That's why I liked the old frame bores in a way as it was fun always trying to get them a little more compact whilst still getting power to the engines and a pipeline to the breakers etc.

[jakj]

I don't think it's cheaty really I just think it would add to the depth of the mod and I like a little complexity to test my problem solving skills. That's why I liked the old frame bores in a way as it was fun always trying to get them a little more compact whilst still getting power to the engines and a pipeline to the breakers etc.

Well, you can use Frame Carriages and Carriage Motors to mimic the old RP2, and you can just pretend they need power if you want. Maybe try using an engine and making the most compact possible airship that can travel in all six directions.

[Cephiros]

I have an idea that could work well in your mod....forgive me if it already works like this as I am at work and unable to try it. If the different carriage types can link say if a normal carriage is in a template spot it moves that carriage set with its rules at the same time was the template carriage... or vice versa, maybe even linking pultiple part template carriages together by putting a template carriage in another template carriages field.

If this is possible it would drastically increase the dynamics and maybe allow for more modular setups and vehicles.

I havent found any more bugs since the 1.1.1.1 update its been working great, and the 1.2 update is spectacular.

[jakj]

I have an idea that could work well in your mod....forgive me if it already works like this as I am at work and unable to try it. If the different carriage types can link say if a normal carriage is in a template spot it moves that carriage set with its rules at the same time was the template carriage... or vice versa, maybe even linking pultiple part template carriages together by putting a template carriage in another template carriages field.

If this is possible it would drastically increase the dynamics and maybe allow for more modular setups and vehicles.

I havent found any more bugs since the 1.1.1.1 update its been working great, and the 1.2 update is spectacular.

That's been a requested feature, but the potential logic involved is so complex, I'm not sure I really feel up to tackling it. What about the ordering? If you have a support carriage inside a template carriage inside a structure carriage, which activates first? Which last? What if the activation of one changes the structure of the other?

Right now, there are 5 carriage types, which means 5 sets of logic to write, test, and maintain. If you add just a single level of nesting, that adds 25 possible combinations that might need special handling. Another level of nesting, and those 30 get 125 more.

It's not good enough to just say "run the logic for each carriage type separately and just add the blocks together to form the final package" because even the tiniest difference in placement can lead to completely different results.

[Cephiros]

How I would handle it (I unfortunately am not a modder so code wise this may not even make sence) would be treat them wouldcbe branch out the logic like a tree branch from the original motor possibly deactivating each n calculating the next logic set and once the calculations are done on whats moving move the object as a whole if there is any conflicting parts it wouldnt work just like any of the carriages.. After reading that it does sound very complex so, was just a cool idea but not necessary in any way your mod already is the best frame mod out there for any minecraft version.

That's been a requested feature, but the potential logic involved is so complex, I'm not sure I really feel up to tackling it. What about the ordering? If you have a support carriage inside a template carriage inside a structure carriage, which activates first? Which last? What if the activation of one changes the structure of the other?

Right now, there are 5 carriage types, which means 5 sets of logic to write, test, and maintain. If you add just a single level of nesting, that adds 25 possible combinations that might need special handling. Another level of nesting, and those 30 get 125 more.

It's not good enough to just say "run the logic for each carriage type separately and just add the blocks together to form the final package" because even the tiniest difference in placement can lead to completely different results.

On secont thought wouldnt it make more sence to take the blocks that *would* move based on each template type and move it all using one giant template logic? Instead of performing every logic then making the move. Or could be limited to like types where combining could be simple like maybe template+template.

[jakj]

How I would handle it (I unfortunately am not a modder so code wise this may not even make sence) would be treat them wouldcbe branch out the logic like a tree branch from the original motor possibly deactivating each frame part into a standard block then calculating the next logic set and once the calculations are done on whats moving move the object as a whole if there is any conflicting parts it wouldnt work just like any of the carriages.. After reading that it does sound very complex so, was just a cool idea but not necessary in any way your mod already is the best frame mod out there for any minecraft version.

The only way to make it remotely feasible for me to code is to make the logic as simple as possible, such that multiple carriage types can't act independently but rather only add to the overall carriage. That has very limited use, though, because if all it does is add to the structure, most of the time the original frame structure could have just been expanded in the first place.

The only situation I can think of where this would be even slightly useful is with support carriages, which right now can operate only in one direction at a time. If they could link together, you could have one part that faces up and one part that faces down. Even just that bit adds all kinds of complication to the logic, though, because support carriages are not as simple as just "go out in a straight line" and it becomes super-difficult to figure out the difference in that case between "aditional carriage to handle with logic" and "just another block to carry".

[Cephiros]

Thats fair enough, I appreciate the consideration and the way you responded. Thank you, from my experience most of the other modders would give a simple "no not possible" response. Explanations are always appreciated.

The only way to make it remotely feasible for me to code is to make the logic as simple as possible, such that multiple carriage types can't act independently but rather only add to the overall carriage. That has very limited use, though, because if all it does is add to the structure, most of the time the original frame structure could have just been expanded in the first place.

The only situation I can think of where this would be even slightly useful is with support carriages, which right now can operate only in one direction at a time. If they could link together, you could have one part that faces up and one part that faces down. Even just that bit adds all kinds of complication to the logic, though, because support carriages are not as simple as just "go out in a straight line" and it becomes super-difficult to figure out the difference in that case between "aditional carriage to handle with logic" and "just another block to carry".

[jakj]

Thats fair enough, I appreciate the consideration and the way you responded. Thank you, from my experience most of the other modders would give a simple "no not possible" response. Explanations are always appreciated.

Well, a lot of modders mod for themselves instead of for the community, which is silly, because if you're modding for yourself, save yourself the headache of support and don't publish it.

People think they get both halves of the pie: The recognition of people saying you made a neat thing, and then the control of telling those people to fuck off if they think it could be improved. That's not how it works.

[Spaceshipable]

Well, you can use Frame Carriages and Carriage Motors to mimic the old RP2, and you can just pretend they need power if you want. Maybe try using an engine and making the most compact possible airship that can travel in all six directions.

I actually like the new carriage controller and the template carriages the best. I'm not really a pretendy sort of person so I guess I will have to be patient. I will just have to see how I can go the other way and see how complex I can make the stuff on the carriage. I'm thinking a thaumic node finder, some form of lava siphon for a lava ocean myst age, a mining well digger (obvious) and maybe some sort of mobile work room.

You know what would be really so so awesome? If you could some how do mystcraft portal support. I think they can be any size so you could teleport whole carriages from one side of the world to the other!

[jakj]

If you mean traveling through portals and teleporting the carriage, that would require me to turn the carriage into a mobile entity which would require almost a full rewrite of the mod.

Being able to teleport carriages is an intriguing idea, though: I'll give that some thought. Supporting any mod's dimension is as easy as storing an integer.

[Cephiros]

If you mean traveling through portals and teleporting the carriage, that would require me to turn the carriage into a mobile entity which would require almost a full rewrite of the mod.

Being able to teleport carriages is an intriguing idea, though: I'll give that some thought. Supporting any mod's dimension is as easy as storing an integer.

Instead of teleporting would deleting itself from one world and rebuilding in the other be feasable?

I dont have mystcraft so I wouldnt use it myself, but brainstorming possible solutions I do enjoy.

[jakj]

Yeah, that's what I was considering: You would have a teleportation source engine on the carriage, a teleportation sink engine where the source engine should end up in whatever dimension, and they would basically swap, taking their contents with them. You would color-code them like ender chests or something similar.

[Lethosos]

For multi-carriage logic, you're essentially over-thinking it, IMO. Simply slap all connected carriages together into an ad-hoc template carriage. The logic behind that is decidedly easier.

[TheBytemaster]

Yeah, that's what I was considering: You would have a teleportation source engine on the carriage, a teleportation sink engine where the source engine should end up in whatever dimension, and they would basically swap, taking their contents with them. You would color-code them like ender chests or something similar.

Would that be automate-able? I'm imagining some kind of automatic lava-gatherer that goes to the nether and then drops off lava at your base.

[Spaceshipable]

I had meant transfer each layer of blocks in turn but teleportation sounds much cooler. I would suggest a GUI for coordinates and dimension number as opposed to a sink drive though

[jakj]

Nah, I prefer to avoid GUI whenever possible. A keystone approach is much neater. You could even set up multiple of the same keystone and it would pick randomly between all loaded ones. (The chunk with the key stone would have to be loaded for teleportation to work.)

[Neowulf]

I'd prefer the sink drive, since it requires you to have actually been to the dimension you're traveling to.

[jakj]

For multi-carriage logic, you're essentially over-thinking it, IMO. Simply slap all connected carriages together into an ad-hoc template carriage. The logic behind that is decidedly easier.

Imagine a platform carriage that is touching a frame carriage. The frame carriage is activated, which then triggers the platform carriage. Does the platform carriage trace through all blocks including the frame carriage and come out the other side? Does it stop when it reaches the frame carriage and just work around it?

[TheBytemaster]

Nah, I prefer to avoid GUI whenever possible. A keystone approach is much neater. You could even set up multiple of the same keystone and it would pick randomly between all loaded ones. (The chunk with the key stone would have to be loaded for teleportation to work.)

So if I used chunkloaders, and the teleporters could be activated via redstone, then there's nothing to stop my nether automation?

[Spaceshipable]

I'd prefer the sink drive, since it requires you to have actually been to the dimension you're traveling to.

Fair point.

Nah, I prefer to avoid GUI whenever possible. A keystone approach is much neater. You could even set up multiple of the same keystone and it would pick randomly between all loaded ones. (The chunk with the key stone would have to be loaded for teleportation to work.)

I like the enderchest style idea a lot, maybe simplified to just the 16 colours though (who needs 16^3 options really?) Can't really see the point in teleporting randomly though.

Multiworld and CC support would be extremely sexy

[Lethosos]

Imagine a platform carriage that is touching a frame carriage. The frame carriage is activated, which then triggers the platform carriage. Does the platform carriage trace through all blocks including the frame carriage and come out the other side? Does it stop when it reaches the frame carriage and just work around it?

I think that's the point, where you can skip the whole multi-carriage logic thing by wrapping all the legal parts in a temporary template entity, move, then release.

It's *when* you should do it that needs to be defined.

[Neowulf]

I like the enderchest style idea a lot, maybe simplified to just the 16 colours though (who needs 16^3 options really?) Can't really see the point in teleporting randomly though.

16 "frequencies" wouldn't cut it for even a lightly populated server. Definitely not for a large server or one that has battles.

Atleast with 3 colors you have 4000 possibilities for someone else to guess before they can jump into your swap network.

Even if swap networks were private by having it record the placing player, 16 is still too few for someone who wants a transportation hub setup between a central base and many dimensions (like say a server admin may want).