Changes to EULA

[ThePagan]

I'd like to apologize if this is in the wrong place. I assumed as it effects server owners it should go here.

 

Not sure if everyone is aware of the recently released Skype chat that Erik Broes aka Grum was involved in, but it appears as though Mojang is planning to update their EULA and starting to enforce it. What does that mean for us? Basically they don't want server owners to sell items, blocks, or permissions in game and solely generate income from donations. The current EULA states that we cannot earn money from Minecraft. Erik stated that they plan to add to the EULA to allow us to generate income in some way. Guess we'll have to wait until they update it to know for sure what that will be.

 

The conversation was pasted here http://pastebin.com/YZzY51bx

 

Article about it by PCGamer http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/06/06/mojang-hints-at-crackdown-on-pay-for-perk-minecraft-servers/

 

What does everyone think about this?

Edited June 7, 2014 by ThePagan

[disconsented]

All they are trying to do is push towards monopolizing minecraft in its entirely including servers ala realms

[ThePagan]

That is the exact conclusion I came up with. The timing is too curious. Feels like they didn't enforce it until they were able to launch their own line of servers. Probably wait til Forge/Curse/FTB come out with their "product" to bring out the plugin/modding API.

[Clonex10100]

It feels like notch rode of the popularity big servers like mineplex and hypixel brought him, then shut them down so he could sell his own brand of minigame services aka realms.

[Stubbypickle205]

The pending EULA change is a horrible idea. The backlash they're receiving already from this should tell them they're not making the right decision. The sole thing that drives Minecraft is the community and them taking this route would be them hurting their own brand.

 

They think it's going to increase realm sales. While it may increase it some it's going to hurt them more than help them.

 

Couldn't we legally state when a user donates X amount that their donation is 100% a donation and they're not paying for any perks but, in appreciation for their contribution we'll give them X and X for free.

 

Also, how hard is it going to be to enforce this change from their Country to all servers hosted around the globe.

[lukeb28]

My two cents is that it's about time they made changes to the EULA, but they are making the wrong changes (Or at least they are not making all the changes they need to be making). By what has been said, their changes are going to cripple almost all big servers out there. They are doing the right thing, but doing it in the wrong way.

 

That's the gist of my opinion. I'm going into more detail now if you want to skip the rest and call me a moron without knowing my reasoning.

 

Now some hot head is going to be mad that I'm semi for the change (Or a lot of you) but hear me out. Modders not using open source is one thing (And will not be discussed here), but taking real money away is serious. I understand that a few bad apples are ruining the bunch, but many servers are almost their own company. They sell packages and such so they can maintain the server, make improvements, and even employ people full time. There are real jobs out there to moderate and maintain Minecraft servers. These EULA changes will destroy those jobs.

 

That said, the current state of affairs are making it look like a crippling change. But simply foregoing those changes is almost as bad. Some servers allowing for GOD MODE to be bought for $10 000 USD must be shut down. They are preying on 10 year olds with their parents credit cards. Something like this can destroy a family financially and is putting money into the hands of people who really don't deserve it. The same goes for payments to be unbanned, getting uber kits, or other unfair advantages.

 

Now, what the hell can we do to fix this? I can't think of anything myself that's not as grey line as the rest of the EULA. Using an easy 'If we think what your doing is bad we will shut your down' would fail miserably as if it went to court there would be any number of loop holes for the server owner to use. Anything left or right of that would be too strict or too loose and we would get a bigger problem or nothing would change.

 

I love the guy's down at Mojang. They are always trying to put power in the hands of the players to build the world they want, but now we have come to a critical cross road. It must be chosen to become a police state or continue on our road to anarchy. Nether are good options but one has to be taken. If I were Mojang I would make the change they have described. Though I would hate to make it.

 

This is not an easy fix but something has to be done. I'm sorry that I have no answer to the "what should we do?" question that's on everyone's mind, but hopefully we can be a little more diplomatic.

[ThePagan]

I don't really see the problem with selling things that people could get themselves. Not pay2win if they are getting the same stuff they could get on their own. God mode for $10k is ridiculous. I hope they come up with something that doesn't completely cripple the way we earn money for our servers. I've never made a lot like some servers, but I've made enough to keep the servers going. I fear that without being able to sell ranks and permissions I will be unable to continue providing a place for people to play.

[disconsented]

The pending EULA change is a horrible idea. The backlash they're receiving already from this should tell them they're not making the right decision. The sole thing that drives Minecraft is the community and them taking this route would be them hurting their own brand.

 

They think it's going to increase realm sales. While it may increase it some it's going to hurt them more than help them.

 

Couldn't we legally state when a user donates X amount that their donation is 100% a donation and they're not paying for any perks but, in appreciation for their contribution we'll give them X and X for free.

 

Also, how hard is it going to be to enforce this change from their Country to all servers hosted around the globe.

Thats not really a donation, that's a purchase.

[ThePagan]

If you give them anything for their donation it becomes a purchase. I believe they are going to come up with something that we can give them for their "donation" that is Mojang approved.

[ThePagan]

https://mojang.com/2014/06/lets-talk-server-monetisation/

Edited June 13, 2014 by ThePagan

[Vicerious]

Sounds like Mojang is being incredibly reasonable, really.  Bravo.

[plowmanplow]

Sounds like Mojang is being incredibly reasonable, really.  Bravo.

Amen

[Firehead94]

I don't see the big fuss over this. I used to be a server owner and only one (you could argue a second) thing would have gone against the EULA. We weren't a huge server but we had a ton of mods. Our vps cost around $75 a month which was always fully covered by players willing to pitch in. Any good server will have people willing to pitch in some way some how regardless of what they get in return. Mojang is just trying to keep the gaming experience the same across all players so that they are able to play the game that they purchased without being at a disadvantage from those with money to spend.

 

For example, yes, people can go get diamonds themselves. A player could mine for months and months and get maybe 10 stacks of diamonds. How is it fair then that the kid who just joined today with access to his parents credit card for one reason or another, gets the same amount of diamonds for donating a few bucks. Sure, life isn't fair, but both players paid $25 for the game (unless bought in alpha/beta) and as such should be able to enjoy the same game. You shouldn't be able to say "no you cant play with this piece of the game you already purchased because you need to give us money now too." hell, I just saw a server today that has anvils limited to donor only because they are "too op". Either allow everyone to use the item that was already purchased or don't let anyone use it. Its like buying a CD to listen to and then having to pay $20 per song when you play it anywhere but home. Yes, you could go find another  place that will play your music but that's hard when A) All your friends are already at the same location as you and B)Most other places you could listen to your music at also charge you to listen to your music.

 

Now sure, that's the issue from a users perspective but look at Mojang's side, they get 100's maybe even 1000's of tickets, questions, complaints and comments from parents and kids saying, "Hey, I paid $100 for VIP status on SuperAwesomeCraftMine Server and then they banned me, I want my $100 back that I paid to play a portion of you're game." or, "Afternoon, my adorably perfect little ball of sunshine told me he needed to pay another $30, on top of the game purchase, to use the tool fix-it station in your game so I gave him the $30. Now he is asking me for another $30 to use the fix-it station again. Why are you charging my adorably perfect little ball of sunshine a ton of money to use the same features we already paid for. I thought we only needed to buy the game for him to enjoy it but now this game seems like more of a money eater."  Charge backs, rejected payments and similar things are all too common because kids are desperate to be able to play the game they bought with their friends but can't do it properly because they lack the money to donate for half of it. 

Edited June 14, 2014 by Firehead94

[Roversword]

I am all game with the new rules by Mojang.

Only one thing makes me wonder:

 

While I think that the "ticket" idea is okay to a certain degree, I am still a little worried that this might (emphasis on might) go sideways.

It is okay as long as there is a choice for the player...either choose a server with those "entry tickets" and pay or choose a server which has no tickets and enter for free.

However, if no server host decides to offer free access, then...we are back on square one...you own Minecraft and can play it only on your own (or host a server yourself which likely brings you to the same impasse).

 

Additionally, Mojang does not mention how this ticket system should work...is this ticket for once (very unlikely, but still possible), is it for a month, for a year, only needs to be payed once?

That could bring either more choices (in terms of servers to choose from) or makes things even more expensive.

 

Well, as I am not hosting a server publicly I am not worried. I looking forward about those changes.

[ThePagan]

It say 1 type of ticket. I assume that is meaning 1 set of permissions/starting items. You could probably do a monthly fee and offering a 1 time fee as well. I was thinking about possibly offering a free vanilla server and charging like $1 a month or a one time $10 fee for access to modded servers, as they require more resources to operate.

 

I also was thinking if you use enjin you could setup a site shop that only uses points and you could sell enjin points and I believe that would still be within the rules. A blatant loophole, but still legal.

Edited June 14, 2014 by ThePagan

[Vicerious]

Mojang's posted an FAQ on the subject:

 

Let’s talk server monetisation – the follow-up Q+A

[Roversword]

Mojang's posted an FAQ on the subject:

 

Let’s talk server monetisation – the follow-up Q+A

I think it can hardly get easier to understand the rules than that. I must admit that I very much like the way Mojang is communicating these changes...very "user friendly" to understand.

I even go so far and say: If you can not grasp the limits and rules of the EULA by now, you should not run a server and ask for money in the first place.

 

However, I am still a little worried about the access thing (once, subscription, etc.). I fear that it has potential to somehow drain money from people who may not be able to manage theirs very good (I am mostly talking about minors who are surely not a small part of the minecraft community). But then again, it is not Mojangs job to educate and check upon the children

[ThePagan]

I wonder if the rules for posting your servers on here will change to allow servers to be pay to play, now that the EULA will be changed to include pay to play.