EE Discussion

[Object]

I'm a long time user of IC/IC2 and BC but I'm brand new to the Tekkit pack, from the snippets of information I've heard about this mod it makes me inclined to believe it's a quick way to progress.

I always try things about before I make any major decisions, but I was hoping for some more insight from the community here. A word of warning though, please do not add replies like "It's OP" or "Just disable it" or "Leeeeeeerooooooooy!" I just ignore them (except maybe the last one), instead please state your opinion as to why you either like it or why you don't. Also regarding my main question, I'd love to hear opinions on why you think it allows people to progress too quickly or why you think it's balanced with other non-EE items like macerators.

Thanks guys.

[Backplague]

EE2 in my opinion makes stuff too easy. The fact that you can create diamonds out of dirt is awesome yes, thats what the mod basically is about. But when we go to the tools, i think its kinda foolish to be able to fly just like in creative with just the power of dirt.

I always have been a technician type of person, as you may have noticed. When comparing the EE2 tools with IC2 tools, IC2 tools are better in my opinion. You have to actually get a realistic power source for your drill and chainsaw, not just have a magical star in your inventory filled with dirt to chop down a whole tree with a tool made out of some red magical shit.

You get my point.

[overload]

Well, as I learned tekkit basics from duncan @ yogscast, which is by the way an excelent 'teacher'.

So, thing is that most of his episodes are released on older version of tekkit where obviously mod versions were older as well.

Thing with this new version is that, you can get loads of materials in just an hour or less after some mining.

Why is that bad? becouse that makes players skip sooo many steps and get latest/best technology with minimal ammount of effort.

Now, what's the difference between old and new version that ruined it all? In my opinion It is uranium and I even have a reasn for that (which is pretty much obvious)

Let's say you would make diamond's cost 43k. Wouldnt that seem a bit too big? - it would. That is why it is 9k only.

The thing I can not understand is... Why would someone make uranium, the ore that is fairly easy to find if you spend some time digging. Why would someone make it's EMC worth of 43k.

I mean, that doesn't make any sense at all. Diamonds are more rare than uranium and they're EMC is way much smaller than uranium.

Even though uranium isnt as rare as diamonds, with out advanced technology you cannot farm it extremely fast becouse it is only by 1 in place, which seems fair enough.

Imagine a scenario where uranium is worth 3-4k EMC and tell me, wouldnt that fix major problem with EE redicleously easy item obtaining methods?

Oh and, I think EE is great plugin, though that configuration I mentioned above would balance it up realy nicely.

[Industrial Miner]

To mention it, uranium ore has the EMC value of half a diamond in the latest EE2. It has been nerfed down to balance it more.

[overload]

To mention it, uranium ore has the EMC value of half a diamond in the latest EE2. It has been nerfed down to balance it more.

Glad to hear that! That's just wonderful :3

Also, about RM tools/rings Blackplague mentioned.. I think that secondary functions arent needed, just let's say they would have fast mining/digging etc. rate and that would be just enough to reach better balance. For rings.. I'm not even sure, those seem good enough for me

[Object]

I'm running McMMO already so my players are more focused on using tools that use McMMO's skill system. I have tekkit blocks integrated into McMMO but I purposely didn't add chainsaws and drills to the list as I believe those tools are strong enough as is. With a high enough mining level an iron pick axe can easily match the speed of the drill, plus with the added effect of potentially getting double drops as well.

With EE I have added none of their tools to the McMMO cfg files, I'm still very unfamiliar with the mod so I didn't want to add any more benefits for it until I figured out how effective it is. Is it the overall consensus that the tools are what makes EE more effective the the other tekkit mods?

[overload]

well, comparingly to other mods EE provides way much more powerful set of tools than other ones and what to mention about they're secondary abilities to leave a hole inside a ground with 1 click (a huge hole)

Comparinly to other tekkit items, it is not balanced well

[Xylord]

I'm running McMMO already so my players are more focused on using tools that use McMMO's skill system. I have tekkit blocks integrated into McMMO but I purposely didn't add chainsaws and drills to the list as I believe those tools are strong enough as is. With a high enough mining level an iron pick axe can easily match the speed of the drill, plus with the added effect of potentially getting double drops as well.

With EE I have added none of their tools to the McMMO cfg files, I'm still very unfamiliar with the mod so I didn't want to add any more benefits for it until I figured out how effective it is. Is it the overall consensus that the tools are what makes EE more effective the the other tekkit mods?

No, I'd rather say it's the whole transmutation. It's very cool when it's on it's own, but it's kind of the "cheap way" when compared to other mods. Let's say you want a diamond factory. With IC/BC/RP, you'll want to set a quarry, that will mine out a portion of terrain, to provide a steady supply of coal, and flint/gravel. It'll send coal and gravel to a macerator, and then, both coal dust and flint to an automatic crafting table that'll make those into coal balls. Next up is a compressor that will make those coal balls into compressed coalballs, followed by another crafting table that combines obsidian/bricks (Who the hell uses iron blocks?) with compressed coalballs to make coal chunks. A last compression and you've got yourself a diamond fabrication factory!

Now, for the EE way :

Dump stuff in the condenser.

...

As you can see, it's way less interesting, and I think it's even less expensive, since you don't need flint, obsidian or energy.

[VideoBoy]

No, I'd rather say it's the whole transmutation. It's very cool when it's on it's own, but it's kind of the "cheap way" when compared to other mods. Let's say you want a diamond factory. With IC/BC/RP, you'll want to set a quarry, that will mine out a portion of terrain, to provide a steady supply of coal, and flint/gravel. It'll send coal and gravel to a macerator, and then, both coal dust and flint to an automatic crafting table that'll make those into coal balls. Next up is a compressor that will make those coal balls into compressed coalballs, followed by another crafting table that combines obsidian/bricks (Who the hell uses iron blocks?) with compressed coalballs to make coal chunks. A last compression and you've got yourself a diamond fabrication factory!

Now, for the EE way :

Dump stuff in the condenser.

...

As you can see, it's way less interesting, and I think it's even less expensive, since you don't need flint, obsidian or energy.

Dude... frak the coal ball method. Too much coal wasted. Make a scrapbox machine out of block breakers, recyclers and deployer. The one I have on my server gives me a stack and a half of dimmies a day. Along with enough food to cure world hunger on the server and loads of minerals too. XD

My opinion on EE is:

1) Collectors: create shit out of thin air. 1 diamond a day with one collector and zero intervention. Maybe it's a day and a half but don't correct my math. Eliminates the need to do any sort of resource gathering.

2) Transmutation tablet: I don't have as much of a problem with THE IDEA of this item as I do with the rest of the mod because it's rather convenient, but you have to rely on how much the creator of the mod values an item. Like the other guy said above, uranium costs much more than diamonds which is gay. Maybe if it had a built-in system that diminishes the value of an item the more you transmutate it or something, but it doesn't.

3) Talisman of repair: repair items out of thin air. I thought, at first, that it consumed covalence dust but it doesn't. Just drop your tools in there, go to sleep, and you got fully repaired tools when you wake up. Eliminates the need to mine minerals to make more tools.

3) Fly ring: (whatever it's called) Eliminates the need for jetpacks, which actually need power or fuel to run (as of IC2 1.97 at least).

4) Tools: I never bothered with the mod long enough to get to the point where I could make dark or red matter, but from what I hear they're grossly overpowered and have infinite durability. Eliminates the need to make any of the other tools in the mod pack.

Basically, it eliminates the need to use any of the other mods. You can do everything 1000 times faster just with EE.

Conclusion: EE is for people who just want to build but want more of an initial challenge than just setting creative mode. Personally I like to play Minecraft to feel like I'm really alone in some island and I have to figure out how to fend for myself, suffer losses dearly if I die, and work hard for resources that are innately difficult to get. I lost the appeal for 'just building' around the time alpha came out.

[Xylord]

Dude... frak the coal ball method. Too much coal wasted. Make a scrapbox machine out of block breakers, recyclers and deployer. The one I have on my server gives me a stack and a half of dimmies a day. Along with enough food to cure world hunger on the server and loads of minerals too. XD

My opinion on EE is:

1) Collectors: create shit out of thin air. 1 diamond a day with one collector and zero intervention. Maybe it's a day and a half but don't correct my math. Eliminates the need to do any sort of resource gathering.

2) Transmutation tablet: I don't have as much of a problem with THE IDEA of this item as I do with the rest of the mod because it's rather convenient, but you have to rely on how much the creator of the mod values an item. Like the other guy said above, uranium costs much more than diamonds which is gay. Maybe if it had a built-in system that diminishes the value of an item the more you transmutate it or something, but it doesn't.

3) Talisman of repair: repair items out of thin air. I thought, at first, that it consumed covalence dust but it doesn't. Just drop your tools in there, go to sleep, and you got fully repaired tools when you wake up. Eliminates the need to mine minerals to make more tools.

3) Fly ring: (whatever it's called) Eliminates the need for jetpacks, which actually need power or fuel to run (as of IC2 1.97 at least).

4) Tools: I never bothered with the mod long enough to get to the point where I could make dark or red matter, but from what I hear they're grossly overpowered and have infinite durability. Eliminates the need to make any of the other tools in the mod pack.

Basically, it eliminates the need to use any of the other mods. You can do everything 1000 times faster just with EE.

Conclusion: EE is for people who just want to build but want more of an initial challenge than just setting creative mode. Personally I like to play Minecraft to feel like I'm really alone in some island and I have to figure out how to fend for myself, suffer losses dearly if I die, and work hard for resources that are innately difficult to get. I lost the appeal for 'just building' around the time alpha came out.

About #2, it was also said that the value of uranium is now half of a diamond's. And you're right about the recycler thingy, but I literally got chests filled with useless coal (Nope, I don't need anymore solar panels ). And it's pretty fun to convert the first resource of the game into the rarest.

[Yuriy]

Dude... frak the coal ball method. Too much coal wasted. Make a scrapbox machine out of block breakers, recyclers and deployer. The one I have on my server gives me a stack and a half of dimmies a day. Along with enough food to cure world hunger on the server and loads of minerals too. XD

My opinion on EE is:

1) Collectors: create shit out of thin air. 1 diamond a day with one collector and zero intervention. Maybe it's a day and a half but don't correct my math. Eliminates the need to do any sort of resource gathering.

2) Transmutation tablet: I don't have as much of a problem with THE IDEA of this item as I do with the rest of the mod because it's rather convenient, but you have to rely on how much the creator of the mod values an item. Like the other guy said above, uranium costs much more than diamonds which is gay. Maybe if it had a built-in system that diminishes the value of an item the more you transmutate it or something, but it doesn't.

3) Talisman of repair: repair items out of thin air. I thought, at first, that it consumed covalence dust but it doesn't. Just drop your tools in there, go to sleep, and you got fully repaired tools when you wake up. Eliminates the need to mine minerals to make more tools.

3) Fly ring: (whatever it's called) Eliminates the need for jetpacks, which actually need power or fuel to run (as of IC2 1.97 at least).

4) Tools: I never bothered with the mod long enough to get to the point where I could make dark or red matter, but from what I hear they're grossly overpowered and have infinite durability. Eliminates the need to make any of the other tools in the mod pack.

Basically, it eliminates the need to use any of the other mods. You can do everything 1000 times faster just with EE.

Conclusion: EE is for people who just want to build but want more of an initial challenge than just setting creative mode. Personally I like to play Minecraft to feel like I'm really alone in some island and I have to figure out how to fend for myself, suffer losses dearly if I die, and work hard for resources that are innately difficult to get. I lost the appeal for 'just building' around the time alpha came out.

While I disagree with some of your statements, your conclusion is pretty spot on and an argument I've used for EE in the past. Although you stated you didn't make dark and red matter (which means you haven't experienced the later portions of EE2), EE2 is a shift in the traditional MC difficulty curve and that's why I love it.

Once duping bugs are eliminated (stone slabs or something, macerating blaze rods, etc), EE simply changes how the game is played at every level. In the early-game, EE2 makes locating some resources easier (at a slight cost). In mid-game, it helps one change items of little use (at present) into items one needs or it helps one consolidate one's materials to save space. I've used EE to turn chests of cobble into some iron and I've turned a lone diamond into enough smooth stone to entomb my gf when she went afk. In the end-game the efficient ones win by building large EMC farms or interesting cross-mod contraptions (often using RP2) to generate as much EMC as possible because crafting things that require a lot of red matter really drains one's inventory unless they afk a long time or keep the chunks loaded.

Quick note to VideoBoy, the Swiftwolf's Rending Gale (fly ring) consumes EMC at a rate of 1 redstone dust per 5 seconds from fuel in the inventory of the player or a charged Klein Star; The Ring of Arcana consumes no fuel but the material cost of it is far greater than anything you've spent spent on jet pack and fuel...ever. By the time you make one, you don't really care.

EE, in short, is all about how it's used by the player and how they choose to have fun (that is what MC is about, right?). In SMP, the choice to use EE2 and how it's used, comes down to what the desires of the server owner and management team are. If you want a server where people have to dig every diamond out of the earth and grind for every piece of iron scrap, EE is not for you. If you want a somewhat stable economy, it'll probably be hard to balance unless major parts of EE2's EMC generation is turned off. If, however, you have a good, small, close-knit community that wants to struggle for awhile and then take on creative projects afterward, EE2 is quite nice and that's why we have a blast with it.

In short, I love EE2, especially when people balance around it to make for an interesting challenge. It's one of the main reasons I've finished two runs of the Feed The Beast SMP beta (v9005, I think, in case they changed it).

[warpspeed10]

There is nothing I could say that has not been already said about EE2. The mod simply runs at a different pace than the rest, and thus can suck the fun out of those other mods.

The only thing to do really, is hope for a better tomorrow. From the small amount of information that has been leaked about EE3, it sounds like the player will feel more like an alchemist than a magician.

Also, EE3 is hinted at being open source. The mod author, wanted others to learn to mod the same way he did, by looking at other people's work. That also means we will be seeing a bunch of cool add-ons for EE3 that could parallel the amount already made for buildcraft.

Edit: Sorry, I should have sourced my information. All of this comes from a conversation with the mod author during one of Direwolf20's server play videos.

[xxmikegigsxx]

I think EE is a lot of fun. I'm never going to use 3 alchemical chests full of dirt so I might as well try and get a diamond or two from it. As for people saying it is OP, it is just as OP as IC. When you get to the end of both you get: indestructible armor, amazing mining tools, and anything you want from the sky. I personally find both very fun and because the end games take so much work to get to it really fells worth it.

[Xylord]

I think EE is a lot of fun. I'm never going to use 3 alchemical chests full of dirt so I might as well try and get a diamond or two from it. As for people saying it is OP, it is just as OP as IC. When you get to the end of both you get: indestructible armor, amazing mining tools, and anything you want from the sky. I personally find both very fun and because the end games take so much work to get to it really fells worth it.

Well... I won't argue about armors, Quantum undoubtedly is as powerful as gem, but you never get to a level where you can vaporize hole chunks with a few clicks in IC/BC.

[xxmikegigsxx]

Well... I won't argue about armors, Quantum undoubtedly is as powerful as gem, but you never get to a level where you can vaporize hole chunks with a few clicks in IC/BC.

You are right about it never having the same effect, but a mining laser will certainly get you close.

[The Count]

I hardly even use equivalent exchange. I prefer to be a more scientific type. I don't really bother about D/R matter furnaces. i much prefer induction furnaces. on the other hand, I do use DM tools, destruction catalyst and a MK3 energy collector flower. power rings are just so overpowered.

[BlasterMaster555]

EE originally was about matter->energy->matter. The collectors eliminate the matter->energy part. Condensors are an interesting way to do it, but the problem had with EE is the fact that the whole mod relies on the 3 step process. Because Minecraft Physics (see: Cobblestone Generator), you can shortcut the first step relatively easy. Cobble might have an EMC value of 1, but it doesn't take too long to have a cobble generator setup with a Redpower Block Breaker farm piping to a condensor, making diamonds at a speedy pace.

There's also the Collector part. It takes power from any light source, so it's easy to make a bottom-of-the-world collector farm using Glowstone, and that's where the endgame gets to the ridiculous part. In a matter of days, I can have chests of red matter, enough to start a world eating black hole, or make a superpowered toolset with explosive properties.

It would be better if Collectors required the zombie-burning power of the sun to do their thing, like how IC2's Solar Panels work, but that would only slow down the ridiculous speed at which items can be conjured up.

If anything, a Tekkit Server does well by having Collectors disabled, as that more or less returns EE to a mod more like its name.

[Torezu]

Hasn't...this argument...been done to death? Has anyone in this thread looked in the P.A.I.N.S. section?

[Object]

I read the entire pains section, but those are opinions of two people, one of which was a little ignorant imo, and the other just constantly tried to get the other to open his eyes.

I had my initial thoughts of the mod before I started this thread but I still enjoy getting into an intelligent discussion. What I honestly expected to see in EE was some form of 'experiment gone wrong' consequence. When I think of alchemy I think of both successes and failures, with the failures usually blowing up your lab.

Both IC and BC have this failure aspect, in BC it's with the engines overheating, in IC it's mostly the nuclear plant taking out half your base. It would be nice if EE had a similar aspect.

[warpspeed10]

I read the entire pains section, but those are opinions of two people, one of which was a little ignorant imo, and the other just constantly tried to get the other to open his eyes.

I had my initial thoughts of the mod before I started this thread but I still enjoy getting into an intelligent discussion. What I honestly expected to see in EE was some form of 'experiment gone wrong' consequence. When I think of alchemy I think of both successes and failures, with the failures usually blowing up your lab.

Both IC and BC have this failure aspect, in BC it's with the engines overheating, in IC it's mostly the nuclear plant taking out half your base. It would be nice if EE had a similar aspect.

If that is the case, you would adore ThaumCraft2. This mod is in the technic pack since it's only ssp, however the mod author stated that once the API finally comes out he will work on the smp version.

[Xylord]

If that is the case, you would adore ThaumCraft2. This mod is in the technic pack since it's only ssp, however the mod author stated that once the API finally comes out he will work on the smp version.

I don't get all this hate against taint. It's pretty fun. The boring cows/chicken/pigs turn into funky colors to play with you, new plants start sprouting, even the trees start dancing! Remember, always store taint in normal tanks.

[Object]

If that is the case, you would adore ThaumCraft2. This mod is in the technic pack since it's only ssp, however the mod author stated that once the API finally comes out he will work on the smp version.

I actually started with technic before renting my own server and putting tekkit on it. There are a lot of things, including thaumcraft, that I'd like to see get moved over. If I remember correctly I think Thaumcraft 1 is SMP compatible right?

[Torezu]

If that is the case, you would adore ThaumCraft2. This mod is in the technic pack since it's only ssp, however the mod author stated that once the API finally comes out he will work on the smp version.

Azanor has dropped development on Thaumcraft 2 in favor of a new mod, probably with many of the same features but a bunch of streamlining. Look up ArcanaCraft.

[Torezu]

I actually started with technic before renting my own server and putting tekkit on it. There are a lot of things, including thaumcraft, that I'd like to see get moved over. If I remember correctly I think Thaumcraft 1 is SMP compatible right?

No, sadly.

[Object]

Azanor has dropped development on Thaumcraft 2 in favor of a new mod, probably with many of the same features but a bunch of streamlining. Look up ArcanaCraft.

I'll definitely have to look that up then, Thaumcraft was definitely an interesting mod. Is there any discussion on adding it into the Tekkit or Technic pack?

No, sadly.

Too bad then. Thanks for the info though.