Cheap Shot Posted August 26, 2012 Posted August 26, 2012 Oh man, threads going too fast for me to keep up. I was cooking dinner earlier and entertaining guests. One more thing I'd like to add is in regards to this. I was talkingback then to Pah about this very thing, people may not want to believe it, we actually were willing to help out. Perhaps things have gone to far now, its not like I am posting here in secret, of course people have seen what I am writing hell I made sure I informed them myself. Most of them just plain dont care anymore, it might just be a case of we tried, we failed, move on and try something different. Can I also just say that my original post was not aimed to stir up a hornets nest. It was intended as nothing more than just a place that I could point people to to give my views on this debate when they ask me why no FTB for technic pack etc. There was a time I got far to heated about a subject that was really none of my business at the end of the day. This has given me a place so in future I can just say go here, these are my views, if you want to question them , thats the place to do it. I do remember the discussion I had with Pahimar. He was a nice guy and it was a very productive chat. I think he thought pretty well of me. I dont understand why people think we've givin up on that though. We never did. We've spent a lot of time since then trying to improve relations and have made a lot of progress. We're still working at it. I'm here right now talking to you aren't it? Things haven't "Gone too far". If anything they've improved quite a bit since. All that's left is for me to become awesome hi five buddies with all the modders and get rid of the hard feelings. Then maybe we could go on to really get some awesome work done. I'd like to be in a place where we could help you out with FTB even.
spartanyanni Posted August 26, 2012 Posted August 26, 2012 No offense, cheapshot, but I don't think you read what slowpoke said about his reasons for the FTB pack founding. He stated it was for FTB map players and for hopefull map makers who want to build maps like the original FTB with their own twist.
slowpoke101 Posted August 26, 2012 Posted August 26, 2012 Of course Kaker is not going to step down or be asked to step down by any of you. I am fully aware that I am making a suggestion that will never happen. You are right though getting on good terms with the modders is a way you can move forwards. I would suggest maybe make the offer both in public and through direct contact to each and every modder whether the mod is open source or not that you will upon request remove the mod from the pack until they are comfortable with having the mod back in the pack. Get that damn thread up in here, forget minecraft forums for right now, find out where you really stand and do this openly for all to see. Show everyone that you are willing to genuinely make an effort to resolve this conflict and make a change to the way the pack operates. We are both totally rogue right now, I have absolutely no right to speak for a single developer and there may be no interest insomething like this, but what does it hurt to try.. Worst case scenario, no one responds and the status quo is maintained. I will say I dont expect this would be an overnight fix, more a case of taking time to rebuild bridges. Cheap Shot it is purely because you and others have given me a place to discuss this throughout the day that I am still here. I dont think we need to suck up to each other any more though lets just both agree we are both OK guys and jakj is an ass and we can go on from there though. From here I think I will head to bed though, the bal is pretty much in your court though. If you decide to do something about this and it is done openly and in a transparent manner, then if there is something I can do to help, then I will. Remember though, I am just a voice, I can help to open lines of communication, but the actions have to come from you. Talk is cheap. Actions speak louder than any words. Night all.
slowpoke101 Posted August 26, 2012 Posted August 26, 2012 Oh and spartan is right about that, the FTB pack is not identical to technic, there are differences in the mods currently and the mods we have picked have been picked for a reason. That doesn't mean that Technic cannot get in touch with those authors though and put together a similar pack or that FTB could one day be part of the Technic Launcher (excuse me while I go and wash out my mouth with soap and water).
Killer-of-Lawyers Posted August 26, 2012 Posted August 26, 2012 At the very least, you all could colaborate on something that doesn't have to do with the mods. The launcher. I like the technic launcher for it's ease of use, but I can't say I wouldn't mind if it was improved. As it has nothing to do with the mod packs, you could easily colaborate on launchers, and still have seperate back ends.
Cheap Shot Posted August 26, 2012 Posted August 26, 2012 You were sucking up to me? When?! Dammit I hardly got any compliments, you can do better then that no fair. Seriously though, If you wan't to leave it off like this then I suppose that's fine. I don't think it's as complicated as all that though. At this particular juncture I think talk is all that's really left. It's just bad water that needs clearing. If it's even possble to clear that water or not I dont know, but I'd like to try.
CovertJaguar Posted August 26, 2012 Posted August 26, 2012 ...but I'd like to try. I'd suggest you start by posting proof of the permissions you do have. It would go a long way towards earning the trust of us devs.
spartanyanni Posted August 26, 2012 Posted August 26, 2012 I'd suggest you start by posting proof of the permissions you do have. It would go a long way towards earning the trust of us devs. Jesus Christ. When this thread has gotten so much attention that the devs take notice, you can be sure that the fanboys will be in tow, making accounts just to spit out hate. Not trying to offend/make you feel unwelcome in anyway, your just the first dev to comment. P.S CovertJaguar has a point, and this has been something part of the community has been asking for a while.
spartanyanni Posted August 26, 2012 Posted August 26, 2012 Oh and spartan is right about that, the FTB pack is not identical to technic, there are differences in the mods currently and the mods we have picked have been picked for a reason. That doesn't mean that Technic cannot get in touch with those authors though and put together a similar pack or that FTB could one day be part of the Technic Launcher (excuse me while I go and wash out my mouth with soap and water). No offense but you didn't need to add that snide comment at the end.
CovertJaguar Posted August 26, 2012 Posted August 26, 2012 you can be sure that the fanboys will be in tow, making accounts just to spit out hate. Eh...if the trolls and fanboys from either side get involved, feel free to give them a good kick out the door.
Killer-of-Lawyers Posted August 26, 2012 Posted August 26, 2012 To be fair, the modding team here can keep ontop of any fan boys. Still, removing mods from the pack is kind of a catch 22. If they all want their mods out, then there's no pack, and there's nothing for us end users to do. Still, it wouldn't hurt to try, I guess. Also, bridges are nice, but there's two sides to the bank of any river. Slowpoke has shown that there's something to work with at least, so here's to something happening.
jakj Posted August 26, 2012 Posted August 26, 2012 Well, I take a break from the thread, and I come back to having been tossed out onto the mat at the front door. I can't tell whether I'm supposed to be an archetype of irrationality or just a peace offering. Fascinating.
Jay? Posted August 26, 2012 Posted August 26, 2012 Jesus Christ. When this thread has gotten so much attention that the devs take notice, you can be sure that the fanboys will be in tow, making accounts just to spit out hate. It's not the first time a dev has shown up. it's not even the second or third. If people come on and are disruptive, they'll be handled with our typical grace and poise. I'd like to remind you that that goes for everyone. Technics userbase has been known to get a little overzealous in the past as well.
spartanyanni Posted August 26, 2012 Posted August 26, 2012 Well, I take a break from the thread, and I come back to having been tossed out onto the mat at the front door. I can't tell whether I'm supposed to be an archetype of irrationality or just a peace offering. Fascinating. Comparing your original posts with the current atmosphere of this dmz, I would say both.
gotyaoi Posted August 26, 2012 Posted August 26, 2012 Well, I take a break from the thread, and I come back to having been tossed out onto the mat at the front door. I can't tell whether I'm supposed to be an archetype of irrationality or just a peace offering. Fascinating. You do have a habit of saying what's on you mind without giving a proverbial fuck. Apparently it has rubbed slowpoke the wrong way. C'est la vie. As to my two cents, I'm something of a fan of copyleft. This is somewhat aimed at covert, as they're here and might feel inclined to answer but I've never quite understood the desire to control how your code is used. I mean, you're distributing it yourself for free in the first place, and your license thingy on the MCForum thread says that one is allowed to distribute a modified railcraft cfg file. What's the motivation for requiring permission to include your mod in a pack, whose only modification is to the cfg?
spartanyanni Posted August 26, 2012 Posted August 26, 2012 * You do have a habit of saying what's on you mind without giving a proverbial fuck. Apparently it has rubbed slowpoke the wrong way. C'est la vie. As to my two cents, I'm something of a fan of copyleft. This is somewhat aimed at covert, as they're here and might feel inclined to answer but I've never quite understood the desire to control how your code is used. I mean, you're distributing it yourself for free in the first place, and your license thingy on the MCForum thread says that one is allowed to distribute a modified railcraft cfg file. What's the motivation for requiring permission to include your mod in a pack, whose only modification is to the cfg? *pst* Don't start shit man. Before you say that you aren't, you are.
Cheap Shot Posted August 26, 2012 Posted August 26, 2012 Yeah he totally is. Common man, that's not going to help anything and I know for a fact no one is going to change coverts mind by asking him sudden and invasive questions. It's bad enough I've got to handle this thread with all these guest stars showing up on my own. edit: Infact I think I'm going to have to tap out for a bit to try and get in touch with Kaker and the rest of the team since I don't want this to keep going without their input. Covert, if that's actually you and not someone making a troll account, then I hope you carry the tone of this thread and are here for a relaxed and civil discussion. Read over the things I've said while I talk to the guys. I know you don't like us currently, or at least Kaker, but I'm quite serious about wanting to get on better terms with the modders. The tenuous "cease fire" situation isn't satisfactory. Anyone picking fights or being agressive and hostile or antagonistic in here will be given a vacation, no matter what "side" you're on. I don't want to wake up to war tomorrow.
gotyaoi Posted August 26, 2012 Posted August 26, 2012 He doesn't have to answer if he doesn't want to. I would also be satisfied by a "None of you business". I'm not going to say I'm not starting shit, since apparently that's not a valid answer, but I will say that's not the intent of the question. It's just a position I've never understood and was hoping that someone who held that opinion might be able to clarify. Not trying to change his mind, just asking for his opinion, one(admittedly small time) coder to another.
Killer-of-Lawyers Posted August 26, 2012 Posted August 26, 2012 Yeah he totally is. Common man, that's not going to help anything and I know for a fact no one is going to change coverts mind by asking him sudden and invasive questions. It's bad enough I've got to handle this thread with all these guest stars showing up on my own. edit: Infact I think I'm going to have to tap out for a bit to try and get in touch with Kaker and the rest of the team since I don't want this to keep going without their input. Covert, if that's actually you and not someone making a troll account, then I hope you carry the tone of this thread and are here for a relaxed and civil discussion. Read over the things I've said while I talk to the guys. I know you don't like us currently, or at least Kaker, but I'm quite serious about wanting to get on better terms with the modders. The tenuous "cease fire" situation isn't satisfactory. Anyone picking fights or being agressive and hostile or antagonistic in here will be given a vacation, no matter what "side" you're on. I don't want to wake up to war tomorrow. But you could make a funny comic about the war later!
CovertJaguar Posted August 26, 2012 Posted August 26, 2012 Covert, if that's actually you and not someone making a troll account Slowpoke can vouch for me, or just pop on IRC and ask.
Redm00n1 Posted August 26, 2012 Posted August 26, 2012 I think this whole ordeal went rather well. Now I just hope we can keep being just as calm as time passes. Keeping cool in debates like these can be tough. Heck, a friend of mine blew up another of my friend's house (In Minecraft of course) because he booted him from a party. All-in-all, I think as long as you guys keep doing what you doing, everything will be alright... And besides, what would the world be like if we didn't forgive and forget occasional mistakes anyway? :P
Cheap Shot Posted August 26, 2012 Posted August 26, 2012 Slowpoke can vouch for me, or just pop on IRC and ask. That's good enough for me. Welcome to the forums, glad to have you here. It's 3 am and I need to sleep so forgive me for calling it a night. Everyone else is on vacation, but once I've had a chat with whoever I can find I'll be back. Stay civil thread. Best behaviour.
Mooseman9 Posted August 26, 2012 Posted August 26, 2012 I would like to throw my two cents in to this discussion. I have known that the Technic team have been generally nice people all around ever since I've gotten the pack. I'm glad to see that they are now trying to work with developers for the benefit of the users, and the community itself. However, even if they acquire a full set of permissions from every developer, there will still be people who despise the Technic pack to its very core. These permissions would make most people more attracted towards the pack, and it would also make the devs more trusting, as CovertJaguar has stated. Most of the community would benefit from this, but there are still people who will hiss and spit at the very name of Technic. These people are also why the MCForums are full of flame wars about Technic. Now, I don't give two halves of a rat's ass what happens over there, for the moderation and overall feeling is unjustified and completely hostile. Most devs can be reasonable and will most likely hold a civilized discussion, as is the case here with CovertJaguar. However, with the good also comes the bad. Sir Sengir is a talented developer, but the way he went about things was just plain idiotic. I like to use forestry with Technic, as I feel that it is a good mod, but what happened between the pack and Forestry is exactly the kind of hostility that needs to end. People need to be civil about it, as SS could've asked instead of targeting the user. Flower_Child is perhaps the worst perpetrator of this hostility. He has blatantly gone out of his way to make his mod incompatible with everything, as was stated before, and with his mod came his forums. I don't know if any one of you have looked over there, but it is filled with hate against anything Technic, and hell, even Forge. The very name can get you banned, as is stated in the rules there. The people there have been so filled with hate for everything that isn't BTW. Take this gem for example. If you didn't bother to read it, (you should, it is really filled with prime examples of how a community should not act.) this is a direct quote straight from the post: Every mod put together with this map is a Forge mod. I mean... I... I love my BTW. But I have a want to try this out... *head explodes* FORUMS! HALP! WHAT DO?! Or another one for example: If you truly are an evil minion then betrayal is certainly within the range of behaviors you can engage in. As you can see, even the mention of using any mod other than BTW is met with hostility towards them. You would directly betray them if you even thought about using another mod. This is the kind of hostility that I am talking about, the kind that needs to stop. I know that this post is straying away from the main discussion, but I feel that this needed to be brought to the attention of it, as it shows just how far a massive ego can get you. I am sorry Cheap Shot if this post is not what you wanted in the discussion. I just really needed to bring this up and post it somewhere, and I thought this discussion was the perfect place to put it.
Redm00n1 Posted August 26, 2012 Posted August 26, 2012 However, even if they acquire a full set of permissions from every developer, there will still be people who despise the Technic pack to its very core. . It is essentially impossible to make everyone happy... When Technic become entire legitimate and people still attack it, I think it would simply be best to pay noooo attention to them if their claims or hatred as no legitimacy itself. I was never one for double standards. >_> I also agree with you on the fact that senseless anger needs to stop. All the forestry dispute has made me do is question the fact if forestry would truly be worth all the pain of installing it manually into something else. Which in turn only hurts the modder who has, I guarantee, poured his blood, sweat and tears into it.
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