Unfair thread deletions on MC forums; Censorship on FTB forums; This is the last place I have

[Sylais]

Mod note: Anyone just coming in, just ignore this thread and all the posts in it that don't have something solid to point to. Discussions on evidence supported topics only.

Greetings everybody

I sincerely apologize in advance if this thread is in the wrong section. I wasnt quite sure where to put it.

I have been a member of these forums for a little while, though I ordinarily dont post on any forum very often. However, an unfortunate set of circumstances has pushed me to voice my concerns and objections to the current state of the Minecraft modding community. Unfortunately, there seems to be an unusual amount of people trying to stop me. These forums may very well be my last chance.

For the last several weeks I have been a strong supporter of the FTB launcher and mod pack. I, like many others, was easily sucked into the vortex of lies and deceit spun by Slowpoke and his "team".

However, over time, my eyes opened to the sad truth of FTB. Needless to say...I am not amused.

At the time, I was in a position where I was able to contact Slowpoke directly. Unfortunately, each time I pulled him aside to bring major issues directly to his attention, I was promptly blocked by his arrogance and Holier-Than-Thou attitude. I tried many times to help, but the last time I spoke with him I was left with "I have had enough of you. Fuck off."

Now here's where it gets heartbreaking.

Earlier today, me and a friend who was in a similar situation as me decided to bring our concerns to the Minecraft Forums, where we could shed some light on FTB's disposition and recent "care mistakes". We felt the Minecraft Forums would be best, because we could speak freely in a place where Slowpoke had no authority. Unfortunately, we were sadly mistaken.

The thread was taken down a short while after.

I assure you, every single post that was made in that thread adhered strictly to the rules. There was absolutely no legitimate reason for it to be taken down. We had no received any prior warning concerning the thread. It was just gone.

About 30 minutes prior to this post, I attempted to open another thread so that the discussion can continue. Within 10 minutes, it was again removed. Within moments I received an "infraction" from a moderator named _Myst.

The message contained this:

Hello SylaisPG,

Your warning level has not been affected. However, further cases of this action may result in formal warnings.

We do not allow such threads on this community.

Thank you.

Relevant Links:

Minecraftforum.net Rules and Information

So, naturally, I respond with this.

Greetings, _Myst.

Having just finished reading the rules, I can say with utmost confidence that my post and thread did not, in any way shape or form, violate any rules of the Minecraft Forum.

Until such a time that I am given a legitimate and adequate explanationas to why the thread was deleted, I will continue to post it. Under different accounts, if I must.

I would also like to make you aware that I have reported you for misconduct. I believe that you are unfairly removing my threads due to bias, and it has just come to my attention that this is not the first thread of this nature that you have removed.

If you in any way interfere with the report, I will voice my concerns with another moderator directly.

Also, I will be keeping record of this conversation.

I look forward to hearing from you concerning the explanation of the removal of my thread.

Cheers,

Sylais

And, again, I re-posted the thread. I did mean it when I said I would keep re-posting.

If any of you would like to join in on the conversation over there, heres the link.

http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1606584-some-issues-concerning-a-modpack-and-these-forums/

(Note: This link leads to my post in the Minecraft forums, General section)

I would urge that, if you should decide to join in, please do so in a respectful and intelligent manner.

I truly do hope that my suspicions are incorrect. It would be truly disheartening to find out that Slowpoke has influence in forums that have no relation to him or his project.

I have decided to post this here in the hope and assumption that Slowpoke has absolutely no authority here.

For those wondering, this is the post I created in the first thread that lists most of the issues and my concerns with FTB as of right now. I hope the spoiler tags work...

Hello everybody, my name is Sylais. I have watched many threads on these forums but up until now I have never really felt the need to post.

Up until recently, I have been a large supporter of FTB, and more specifically, Slowpoke. However, like jamromhem, I have completely lost faith in the FTB "team". I'll explain why that word is in quotations soon.

I too have noticed FTB making many, many mistakes and grave errors, both with their modpack, and launcher. Many of these are very well known, such as the "accidental" release of a development build of a mod (which I have a copy of on my computer, by the way) and the issue of the console revealing players' personal information. However, the list does not end here. Not even close.

Some lesser known mistakes of the FTB "team" include such things as many people losing their single player worlds due to a severe launcher error. Even some so serious as members of their "dev team" verbally assaulting members of their community. Some members of their dev team have directly insulted Tekkit. And lets not forget Slowpoke's drunk stream, where he passionately proclaimed " F*** Technic" several times.

I said I'd explain why the word "team" was in quotations. Simply put, they aren't a team. Their coordination and cooperation among them is an absolute disgrace. Their entire teamspeak is in disarray. There is absolutely no communication between any of them.

As for their so called "developers" ... What have they developed? A website? It's a single page. A grade 9 student can do that, yet he has nearly 10 people on his "Web Dev Team." The forums were either bought, or donated. Even the launcher itself is based heavily off of MultiMC.

But the absolute worst offense that has been committed is Slowpoke's arrogance. Every time he has ever been presented with a problem caused by his "team" he has either brushed it off as a casual mistake (as has been proven with the display of personal information in the console) or he'll chew you out for bothering him with false claims. I know this because I have spoken to him many times about many problems, and every single time he responded like this. The last time I spoke to him, he threw a hissy fit, said he "had enough of me" and then told me to **** off.

Anyways, I hope this post has enlightened a few people. For those wondering if the above claims are truth or propaganda, I do have screenshots and images proving much of it. However, I have decided to wait to share them until such a time they would be most beneficial to everybody involved.

Cheers

Again I sincerely apologize for posting these issues here, however these forums are all I got left. It seems to me that most other forums are moderated by FTB fanboys. And sorry for the wall of text...

tl;dr : FTB is a letdown, Slowpoke is a joke, and Minecraft Forum mods are fanboys

EDIT: It appears I dont know the tags for Spoilers. Could somebody please enlighten me?

[Xylord]

First of all, I would like to tell you you seem like an intelligent and eloquent folk, and for those reasons I believe you will be accepted here. Moreover, I know from experience even opinions against the Technic pack are never censored around here, so if you don't go down the "Mindless rambling rage" road, you don't have to worry about being warned or banned.

It is almost common knowledge that the moderation team on the curse forum's is shit-tastic, and I hope for you the first moderator will be punished for his bias, even though I doubt it.

But please try to stay as objective as you are right now, as FTB in general is a very touchy subject.

[Jay?]

Look, dude. I'm not saying that you're wrong, as such, but if that's exactly what you posted, then I'd have called it flame-bait.

While i usually side against them, i can see why they'd want to take that post down. It may not have violated the rules, but a moderator usually has to do more than enforce the letter of the law. We also have to try to enforce the public good, which at MCF, partially because of their size, and partially other reasons, means putting the kibosh on flamewars.

[Sylais]

First of all, I would like to tell you you seem like an intelligent and eloquent folk, and for those reasons I believe you will be accepted here. Moreover, I know from experience even opinions against the Technic pack are never censored around here, so if you don't go down the "Mindless rambling rage" road, you don't have to worry about being warned or banned.

It is almost common knowledge that the moderation team on the curse forum's is shit-tastic, and I hope for you the first moderator will be punished for his bias, even though I doubt it.

But please try to stay as objective as you are right now, as FTB in general is a very touchy subject.

Xylord, I cannot tell you how much I appreciate the nature of your reply. It is truly refreshing to hear another voice of reason.

I can assure you that I will remain as objective as ever. I do try to stay calm when I talk on forums, -especially- when the topic is something that gets me riled up.

Luckily, I always have good friends behind me who help me keep my cool.

Cheers mate

Look, dude. I'm not saying that you're wrong, as such, but if that's exactly what you posted, then I'd have called it flame-bait.

While i usually side against them, i can see why they'd want to take that post down. It may not have violated the rules, but a moderator usually has to do more than enforce the letter of the law. We also have to try to enforce the public good, which at MCF, partially because of their size, and partially other reasons, means putting the kibosh on flamewars.

I suppose you're right. But the conversations and debates were mostly staying very civil and interesting, which is why I am taking a stand against it. Not to mention the serious lack of any reasoning or explanation is bugging me to no end.

[Lothos]

yeah dude, you aint going to get anywhere with that thread like that.

[Sylais]

yeah dude, you aint going to get anywhere with that thread like that.

I really dont know if you're referring to the thread I made above or the thread I made on the Minecraft Forums. Some more details would be appreciated.

I'd also like to bring another point to this issue...

_Myst automatically deletes the thread without warning, then gives me an infraction that explains absolutely nothing.

...Yet there is currently another moderator, AND a forum admin that posted on that thread. Without taking it down. This only furthers my belief that _Myst is an FTB fanboy.

[Leestons]

You're not going to get anywhere on the Minecraft forums anyway, unless your post is worshipping Mojang and kissing Notch's arse, you will just be swarmed by the 12 year old brats who used mommy's credit card to buy Minecraft that make up the community there.

Welcome to the Technic forums Sylais.

[Jay?]

I really dont know if you're referring to the thread I made above or the thread I made on the Minecraft Forums. Some more details would be appreciated.

I'd also like to bring another point to this issue...

_Myst automatically deletes the thread without warning, then gives me an infraction that explains absolutely nothing.

...Yet there is currently another moderator, AND a forum admin that posted on that thread. Without taking it down. This only furthers my belief that _Myst is an FTB fanboy.

Okay, so, that's a thing that you just need to deal with. Moderators all have different personalities and styles. One mod or admin may post or even support that topic, but that doesn't actually lend it legitimacy. I know that from your end, it looks like it should, but it doesn't.

[Sylais]

You're not going to get anywhere on the Minecraft forums anyway, unless your post is worshipping Mojang and kissing Notch's arse, you will just be swarmed by the 12 year old brats who used mommy's credit card to buy Minecraft that make up the community there.

Welcome to the Technic forums Sylais.

Yeah I've noticed, but I had figured it would have been worth a shot. I mostly posted there because I assumed it was outside Slowpoke's range of authority. There was, however, some very intelligent conversations that were very enjoyable for the short time the thread was up, surprisingly.

And thank you for the welcome =).

...You know, I find it REALLY funny that, given FTB's public reputation vs. Tekkit's public reputation, I have not received a warmer welcome on any other forum to date. Goes to show that you should never listen to the hype. I'm really glad I came here, thank you guys.

Okay, so, that's a thing that you just need to deal with. Moderators all have different personalities and styles. One mod or admin may post or even support that topic, but that doesn't actually lend it legitimacy. I know that from your end, it looks like it should, but it doesn't.

I gotta hope, man. Maybe the presence of another mod and admin will make _Myst back off. Never know...

[JademusSreg]

It would appear the FTB folks are in the process of addressing the (hilarious) issue.

[racingpro]

Yeah. That's one of the main reasons I still use the Technic Launcher. Even if theirs might have more fancy bits on it, this one works and doesn't do anything silly. Just the mods do (ie: three torches in the top row make a waterproof switch pipe). But that can be fixed through different means. It's a shame that people are subjected to these things.

And yes, welcome to a place where you won't be hated on unnecessarily, until you do something wrong. We just want to play the mods like everyone else.

[Cheap Shot]

If you feel it's a legit issue and nowhere else will let you discuss it openly then feel free to stay here. Of course the ground rules will apply. Stick to facts and logic. Emotional bandwaggoning is frowned upon. If you really have those "screenshots" (besides the MCF emails. We already know the curse mod staff is "mostly" terrible.) etc then post them because right now it's just you saying people were assholes to you. I'm not saying I don't believe you, because it honestly sounds about right from what I know, but you'll need "proof" or there is no point in discussing it.

[JademusSreg]

Less interested in assholery, more interested in malfeasance. If Sylais had elaborated on the FTB misconduct barely mentioned in the third paragraph and cut all the irrelevant shenanigans (which is to say everything else), it would have made a better impression.

To put it differently, making tactless public statements, like those that take cheap shots [unavoidable pun] against Slowpoke or whoever on FTB, impairs your credibility. Not that you should self-censor; instead, be clear about your purpose. You can communicate cogently and make a point, or you can air your grievances, but don't do both in the same conversation.

[blurry]

As several people have allready mentioned, it's not hard to see why your post was removed from ftb forums. Your whole issue seems a bit "paranoid", like the minor bugs so far with the launcher is some sort of a masterplan by slowpoke.

I said I'd explain why the word "team" was in quotations. Simply put, they aren't a team. Their coordination and cooperation among them is an absolute disgrace. Their entire teamspeak is in disarray. There is absolutely no communication between any of them.

Here's an example of why you propably won't be taken too serious.

[V00doocat]

Ultimately we all have a say in the overall issues by voting with your feet.

None of us with the exception of creators of forums / launchers / mods etc have any god given rights to use services or post our opinions.

We are gusts on the forums we choose to post on.

That said we all have a right to be treated with respect if we follow the rules and guidelines laid out by individual services.

As pointed out no one is surprised at threads being deleted over at MCF. They unlike other sites are not established because of the love of the game.

I do sympathise because if you read and listen to the propaganda out there FTB is a heavenly place of mutual respect and cooperation.

However, you said yourself you had listened to slowpokes streams. That alone should tell you how he operates and give some insight into his character and elevated opinion of himself.

As for him telling you to F - off although not particularly pleasant I come back to my original point.

Anyone posting there (or here) is a guest and has the option to vote with their feet. No one has any rights to be heard or given a platform.

If you strike up enough personal convos with anyone they will eventually tell you to get lost.

But, like I said I do sympathise that you had to find out the hard way the difference between the carefully cared for public image and the reality of slowpoke are two different things.

Ever noticed how someone else is given the job of posting bad news for example ? Or how he posted a thinly veiled hate tekkit post and said it was there for reference so he could point people to it when asked why he hated tekkit. When that post didn't have the desired effect and people began to have a rational discussion about the whole subject he locked it. But if you listen to the propaganda he doesn't get involved in moderating the forums :/

He made a career out of hate, if one day that hate fades away and people get sick of hearing it then he will be in the same situation as everyone else. Where hard work and dedication will be the only option left to make his product different or better than anything else on offer.

A lot of people will recognise the issues you posted. But not so many will be surprised or shocked. While we all hold views and opinions we are all here mostly because of the love of modded MC. The circus that is the of the politics of the community is just a sideshow.

Welcome to the forum. And if I may offer a bit of advice. (take it or leave it.)

On any forum telling a moderator that you will continue to do what they asked you not to by any means at your disposal never goes down well and is ALWAYS taken as provocation.

The rights and wrongs of their moderation are secondary. Much in the same way the law in any land and any law enforcers should be respected, and if you come across an unjust law or corrupt official you try to change or report it, not ignore it or carry on breaking that law. Doing the later normally results in jail time.

[The_DarthMoogle]

FTB is starting to turn from joke to scary. "Staff" being able to access any server, this bull with passwords.

This is eerily reminiscent of MCBans.

[freakachu]

while I'm all for laughing at FTB when they do something stupid (which is often), you should probably offer a bit more evidence for most of your claims OP. as it stands the only complaint you've got backed up is "they screw shit up in serious ways regularly" which is held up by the OPS.txt thing, the password leaks, and the other things you mentioned.

the "team" thing is just you saying stuff, slowpoke being a toolbox is pretty true but you don't offer any reasons for it other than "he said a bad word to me ='[" and "he got drunk one time on stream and said 'fuck technic'". only one of those really counts and even then it's not exactly a smoking gun if you get my meaning. you are lacking specifics basically is what I'm saying.

lastly, what exactly do you hope to accomplish by posting this? as much as I dislike the slowpoke, what's the point here other than to try and say that he's a tool? I mean, is that it?

[ErusPrime]

yanno, the ops.txt thing was a forgiveable and understandable mistake. You build a test world and forget a few things when you get it ready for live. I'm having trouble figuring out how something could cause a password to be output in plain text as an accident. In good development practices, even the computer doesn't know your password because everything is encrypted all the time.

[Lothos]

Essentially my point was like freak said. what is your desired end goal here with this thread/thought? anywhere you plan to bring it up that is.

[Annon]

I'm having trouble figuring out how something could cause a password to be output in plain text as an accident. In good development practices, even the computer doesn't know your password because everything is encrypted all the time.

Well all minecraft launchers do exactly that because authenticating to minecraft.net requires a plain text password, here is the code from technics own launcher using the plain text password exactly as feed the beast does:

public static String[] doLogin(String user, String pass, JProgressBar progress) throws BadLoginException, MCNetworkException, OutdatedMCLauncherException, UnsupportedEncodingException, MinecraftUserNotPremiumException, AccountMigratedException {

 

String parameters = "user=" + URLEncoder.encode(user, "UTF-8") + "&password=" + URLEncoder.encode(pass, "UTF-8") + "&version=" + 13;

 

String result = PlatformUtils.excutePost("https://login.minecraft.net/", parameters, progress);

As you can see the login string is created using the plain text password which is then sent to mojang to see if the login is valid, the only difference here is the FTB Launcher prints out everything it does to the console so if the login failed (because minecraft.net was down) then the password would be visible in the error, it was clearly a mistake but was quickly rectified as a updated launcher was pushed and all the pastebin's containing the password were taken down.

[freakachu]

the password is also sent over a secure SSL connection, note the "https" in that url. unless you're arguing that the client has the password as a plain string at all ever, which would be rather odd.

MC isn't the most secure thing ever, far from it, but don't attempt to downplay how huge printing the passwords out in the error log is/was. there's miles of difference there.

[Annon]

the password is also sent over a secure SSL connection, note the "https" in that url. unless you're arguing that the client has the password as a plain string at all ever, which would be rather odd. MC isn't the most secure thing ever, far from it, but don't attempt to downplay how huge printing the passwords out in the error log is/was. there's miles of difference there.

I was responding to the post above that I quoted:

In good development practices, even the computer doesn't know your password because everything is encrypted all the time.

I was simply explaining to him how this isn't possible due to how mojang require passwords for login in plain text and therefore why it was available as such, as I said FTB fixed the issue and removed the passwords from where users had posted them as well as made a post informing users of the issue, there is no more that could be done in my opinion.

[freakachu]

I was simply explaining to him how this isn't possible due to how mojang require passwords for login in plain text and therefore why it was available as such, as I said FTB fixed the issue and removed the passwords from where users had posted them as well as made a post informing users of the issue, there is no more that could be done in my opinion.

well, aside from not printing out login/password info to the console in the first place anyway.

[SimpleGuy]

Mojang could just as easily require a login based on a SHA-3 hashing scheme where the application layer uses the username + password combination to generate a unique credential (if Mojang just wanted to encrypt vs hash they could just as easily use something like the AES). It is an industry standard, no passwords are kept by the program and none are transmitted directly over the network (as only the hash generated is transmitted).

But of course that requires good programming practice and familiarity with cryptographic algorithms (the latter Mojang definitely doesn't have, the former is debatable).

Back on topic, OP I'm sorry to hear your experiences with Slowpoke have been less than pleasant and that his team has been letting your expectations down. However, it's one thing to say "my expectations were let down" and use a bunch of "I" statements to express your dissatisfaction, and a totally different thing to make claims that the other person/group is a bunch of mindless monkeys smacking a keyboard:

I said I'd explain why the word "team" was in quotations. Simply put, they aren't a team. Their coordination and cooperation among them is an absolute disgrace. Their entire teamspeak is in disarray. There is absolutely no communication between any of them.

As for their so called "developers" ... What have they developed? A website? It's a single page. A grade 9 student can do that, yet he has nearly 10 people on his "Web Dev Team." The forums were either bought, or donated. Even the launcher itself is based heavily off of MultiMC.

First paragraph: This especially hits close to home around here, because similar statements have been targeted at the Technic Team with people acting like they know how the Technic Team operates. Teamspeak and IRC are not the only forms of communication. In short, just because you have hung out with some of them in some modes of communication doesn't necessarily mean you're privy to all communication (unless, of course you can provide proof)

Second paragraph: Interactive web pages are a pain to code (it feels like herding goats trying to make CSS3 and HTML5 and whatever ECMAscript version being used work together) so mentioning a ninth grader versus ten people on a web dev team seems like a personal attack, which isn't doing you nor your argument any good.

No proof is provided for your "bought or donated" clause. In general, forum software has been written and no one is going to waste their time re-writing the same software from scratch.

The MultiMC statement has either been dispelled or verified before (can't remember which) but it still stands that they've put forth some developmental effort that does not always manifest visually to the user.

In short, I can see why your thread was deleted. I really wanted to lock this thread, but as it's brought about a (so far) positive discussion on whats-ok and what-is-not-ok to say I'm leaving this untouched.

[slektomper]

nice post simpleguy, yeah, the MultiMC claims were dispelled by one of the FTB launcher devs, when he said that it was built with compatibility in mind, rather than trying to steal it, and that forkk had actually started the project (info here)

its rather nice to see the level of hostility at a low recently, with members of the technic forums becoming members of the FTB forums. Hopefully this could be the start of some form of truce between the two, but i really cant see that happening any time soon.

I also agree that Mojang should have used a MUCH better way of checking credentials, but, i guess its just another thing that they shouldve done, but didnt. like giving up on the game and handing it over to the modders.