The state of "Atomic Science" in Tekkit 1.2.7b...

[jakalth]

Right now.  The mod, Atomic Science, is mostly broken.

 

I have done some testing of the mod, including trying to update the mod and generating fresh config files.  But as it stands, nothing can be done to fix what is truely broken about the mod.

 

1: Turbines produce close to 30x the amount of power they are supposed to produce.  This can be fixed, partially, in the config file by lowering the turbine output coefficient to 0.03, from the 4.5 it is currently at.

 

2: Turbines use far too much steam to generate power.  Even adjusting the steam ratio has no effect on this...

 

3: The electromagnets do not heat up when exposed to plasma the same way they used to.  This means the water around them is not converted to steam properly so the turbines will not recieve the steam needed to operate.

 

4: Plasma generation is a bit random and no longer acts like a fluid.  This means flood type reactors are currently not viable...  Even the 4 torus design I have does not function any more.

 

Due to these problems, fusion reactors are currently unusable in the modpack, unless the turbines are left in their current overpowered state.

 

I do not know yet what effect the turbine issues have on fission reactors, but I can only guess they are also effected badly...

[TonyVS]

I can confirm, I have been updating Atomic science on my own and the issue is currently getting worse. in Atomic-Science-1.1.0.53-core the turbines do not spin at all, will not merge to large turbine properly and no power what so ever is being generated.

I have a post on the atomic science forums as we speak.

 

https://bitbucket.org/calclavia/atomic-science/issue/253/non-working-turbines

[HeatHunter]

the steam turbines of the MFR-mod are working fine for me (didn't test what produces more RF/t, 9 steam turbines, or a big turbine of AS)

[jakalth]

We're just talking atomic science turbines here HeatHunter.  But it's good to hear that the MFR ones are working well at least.  Too bad pipeing steam out of a reactor doesn't work right or we could use those and/or the steam dynamos for power.

[HeatHunter]

I had to puffer the steam through portable tanks, otherwise my reaction in the fusion reactor broke down :/

[jakalth]

Some more trial and error, figured out the issue with the turbines.  The total amount of steam they require to spin is nearly unattainable.  Found out it is possible to get a turbine running at full speed using a tesseract, but the input tesseract needs to have 6 input connections just to get a single small turbine running full speed.

 

The output tesseract needs to have the turbine sitting directly on top of it.  Unrealistic method to power turbines, but gives some interesting numbers.

 

small turbine uses 1800+ mb/tick just to spin at full speed.  using just 5 inputs @ 360mb/tick each, that's 1800mb/tick.  the turbine was running at 93% output.  so my guess is about 1900mb/tick needed per small turbine.  fluiducts can only transfer 360mb/tick per connection and can only make 1 connection too a small turbine.

 

Large turbine requires 6 input tesseracts with a total of 35 fluiduct connections.  That's potentially 12,600mb/tick!!!  less steam used for it's size, but still a completely unrealistic method is required to pipe steam to it...  Doing some calculations I found the number to be closer to 11,200mb/tick.  but still...  also, the output of a large turbine is about 5.34 times that of a small turbine, but it uses 5.86 time the steam...  so they are actually less efficient...

 

did some further testing, the reactor setup I had was capable of powering 285 steam dynamos, outputting 22,800RF/tick and using 11,400mb/tick of steam.  so basicly, the whole reactor is required just to power one large turbine, plus 5 steam dynamos.  meaning the large turbine would need to output a total of 22,400RF/tick just to be ballanced...  still completely broken imo...

Edited March 10, 2014 by jakalth

[TonyVS]

that would definitely explain why mine are not even spinning.....damn

[jakalth]

The balance point for my reactor seems to be 6 small turbines, each with their own tesseract, and 5 steam dynamos.  they all seem to be able to run on the same channel so the tesseracts can transfer an insane amount of steam through a single connection. O_o

 

This is all a bit of an estimation since I can't accurately measure steam usage other then watching how much steam is in the fluiducts at any given time and compair them.  But it seems to be pretty close.

 

most accurate guess:

Large turbine = ~11,200mb/tick of steam needed, each

Small turbine = ~1870mb/tick of steam needed, each

 

a tesseract can send steam strait into a turbine so it is possible to pipe steam to remote turbines.  But, if you balance the output of the turbines to how much steam they use, then each small turbine needs to produce about 3,740RF/tick.  Meaning you could potentially produce more power by just placing the turbines directly over the water in your reactor.  But, since they will be running inconsistantly if placed over the water instead of pipeing, your power output will be unpredictable and change often...

[rogueclon946]

The balance point for my reactor seems to be 6 small turbines, each with their own tesseract, and 5 steam dynamos.  they all seem to be able to run on the same channel so the tesseracts can transfer an insane amount of steam through a single connection. O_o

 

This is all a bit of an estimation since I can't accurately measure steam usage other then watching how much steam is in the fluiducts at any given time and compair them.  But it seems to be pretty close.

 

most accurate guess:

Large turbine = ~11,200mb/tick of steam needed, each

Small turbine = ~1870mb/tick of steam needed, each

 

a tesseract can send steam strait into a turbine so it is possible to pipe steam to remote turbines.  But, if you balance the output of the turbines to how much steam they use, then each small turbine needs to produce about 3,740RF/tick.  Meaning you could potentially produce more power by just placing the turbines directly over the water in your reactor.  But, since they will be running inconsistantly if placed over the water instead of pipeing, your power output will be unpredictable and change often...

Small turbines for me maxed out at like 3997 rf/tick placed directly over water source blocks producing steam. It's interesting how being right over the water is enough to spin it up as long as plasma is actually near the electromagnet, but nothing is fast enough to pump steam into a turbine without multiple connections... What about tesseracts right over a steam funnel?

[jakalth]

Tesseract right over a steam funnel.  you know what? I'll have to try that out.

 

the turbines over water act differently then turbines being piped in steam.  I don't think they actually request the same amount of steam that way and/or they just look at what percentage of steam output the water has.  this is just a guess though.

 

:edit: ok, tesseract over a steam funnel does not work.  seems the funnel has to have the steam pumped out of it, or have a turbine over it.  Ok, I goofed on the tesseract test.  it does transfer steam, but the turbine on the other end barely does more then idle.  so it's unable to send enough to run a turbine.

 

also, when piping steam into a turbine, I could only max the small turbine out at 3672RF/tick compaired to placing the turbine directly over water and getting 3995RF/tick.  so yeah, there are different physics going on when the turbine is directly over water.

Edited March 11, 2014 by jakalth

[Stone Rhino]

@Jakalith:

The mod author was pressured by the community to increase the output of his mod to keep on par with other mods of similar complexity. Most notably is Big Reactors can produce massive amounts of power at an absurd fraction of the cost.

 

Also please keep in mind that this mod is originally designed for its own "universal" power system. There is going to be some sort of conversion adjustments between Joules (Not BC's MJ) and RF.

[TonyVS]

It was already a perpetual free energy machine, what the hell do people want? it was fine the way it was, sheesh

[johnny walker]

I thought the large non-spinning turbines was a bug, honestly, and it started prior to 1.2.7b.

 

At any rate, I've got three liquiduct connections to each of my four turbines supplying steam from a fusion reactor that is boiling 8 blocks of water.  Each block of water has a steam funnel above it, with a liquiduct connected to it to pull the steam out using a redstone signal (pneumatic servos set to ignore redstone in my case).  This causes the four turbines to visibly spin.

 

Each turbine then connects to its own resonant energy cell, each of which accepts 10,000 rf/t as input and outputs 2,500 rf/tick.  These four cells feed into a single resonant cell that provides power to all of my machines (6 laser drills, each with one precharger that provides more than 1 wk/second on each drill, ME system with 10 drives, autocrafting stuff etc, 2 pulverizers, 2 induction furnaces, two redstone furnaces, galacticraft stuff that doesn't run often).  The single energy cell is receiving 10,000 and sending 10,000 on every cycle - I believe this to be correct because it sites at only 10000 stored energy constantly, while my four other cells feeding it all sit at 50M/50M and never dip below that.

 

I'm only posting this because it seems like it is producing plenty of power through my four large turbines, but I don't know what the output range really is on those turbines and I suck at converting power units.  Food for thought, I guess.

Edited March 12, 2014 by johnny walker

[Shawn Mullins]

It was already a perpetual free energy machine, what the hell do people want? it was fine the way it was, sheesh

 

 

Yeah I agree it was fine as it was. Using only one fission reactor  -->steam funnels-->liquiducts-->5 large turbines I was making enough power off of a single fissil rod to fill 3 resonant energy cells, 1 hardened energy cell, 1 leadstone energy cell,and power a BC quarry, 1 pulverizer and 1 redstone furnace no problem. There was no need to increase anything. If they wanted more power they could have just built the other reactor.

[jakalth]

@Stone Rhino

 

And now the community hopefully sees what happens when they force a change that is not in the best interests of the mod.  It pretty much ruins a mod that was/is a pretty well designed mod.

 

The change from MJ to only outputting Joules, by default, was something I did not know about.  But considering the issues other mods have been having with MJ, I can understand why.

 

About making it more powerful, well, it was already far more powerful then most people understood.  It just required a bit of trial and error to find builds that could fully use what atomic science was capable of doing.  Even a simple fission reactor setup could potentially output enough power to run several mass fabricators from IC2, 1-2 MFR laser drills, or even an mffs energy field so large it required chunk loaders just to allow it to generate the entire field...

 

but, you can't please everyone...  that's why sometimes you have to just put your foot down and just do what you want reguardless.

[TonyVS]

Yeah I agree it was fine as it was. Using only one fission reactor  -->steam funnels-->liquiducts-->5 large turbines I was making enough power off of a single fissil rod to fill 3 resonant energy cells, 1 hardened energy cell, 1 leadstone energy cell,and power a BC quarry, 1 pulverizer and 1 redstone furnace no problem. There was no need to increase anything. If they wanted more power they could have just built the other reactor.

 

I had 4 running fusion reactors with 196 large turbines supplying power for the whole server and now I have NOTHING. I have some bioreactors to keep my own stuff online but damn. put it back the way it was. so what if big reactors is op. it is safety scissors for minecraft anyway. let the noobs have their easy stuff and put ours back.

[badkruka]

hmmm never got in depth with atomic science but from where Im standing it seems way to op. I have put the small turbines directly over the 3*3 heated water and upgraded it to one big turbine and I got alot of power. When I used TE's multimeter on the in conduit going into the Resonant Energy Cell got avarage 10.000RF/tic. So I downgraded the big turbine into 9 smalls and just connected one turbine and see it produces 3995 RF/tic. One 3*3 - the fission reactor block and the thermometer block gives me 7 small working turbines from one fission reactor producing 3995*7=27.965RF/tic. That are insanly much power from one reactor. When the 2 controll rods comes upp I loose 2 more turbines but still its alot of power.

Edited March 14, 2014 by badkruka

[badkruka]

When I first put a steam funnel and then a small turbine it only produces 100 RF/tic.

[crusaderkvw]

so currently, the only way of producing some real power is by making for example big big yellorium reactors.... man.... even i know(just starting with tekkit) that i would prefer to do some more research and then build me one hell of a fusion reactor etc.

[badkruka]

so currently, the only way of producing some real power is by making for example big big yellorium reactors.... man.... even i know(just starting with tekkit) that i would prefer to do some more research and then build me one hell of a fusion reactor etc.

One small turbine producing 3995 RF/tic isn't enough?

[badkruka]

Don't know how this mod is ment to work but it seems that steam funnel are the one that is broken in this mod. Remove the steam funnel and put small turbines directrly over the water and you will have alot of power from this mod again.

[jakalth]

True there badkruka.  Both fusion and fission reactors produce steam the same.  But with the fusion reactor setup, watch the plasma generation once.  Something is not quite fluid about how the plasma is generated/moves...  Unlike the fission reactor, fusion doesn't run consistantly, but still seems to produce a large amount of power.

 

Turbine output used to be around 22 and 1/2 RF/tick before the complainers convinced calclavia to modify the mod.  Now they output about 3995 RF/tick each.  also large turbines are far less efficient then their component small turbines now.

 

The atomic science mod used to be about building large complex reactors to squeeze every little drop of power you could out of the steam produced.  Now, you can't really go large, it no longer works on the large scale it used too...

 

Oh, and to see how completely broken the mod is now, upgrade your fission reactor from a 3x3 too a 5x5 of turbines and water.  you'll get more then double to power output from the single fission reactor core.

[Kotja]

Is it worth it?

With pumping lava from nether you reach max. voltage using 125 magmatic dynamos (3*3*32 conduit in the middle, dynamos on sides fluiduducts in two corners) and you use max voltage only in energetic infuser

[jakalth]

yes and no.  Yes for the fun of making a reactor, and for the massive potential output of up to 80,000RF/tick.  No, cause the changes have made the mod balance broken and it's even less predictable then it used to be.

 

It still works, I guess...  but it no longer is as much fun to work with due to no longer being able to make complex reactor setups...

[badkruka]

 Yeah power isn't an issue anymore in tekkit. The only one worth building is a bioplant but if you wanna go big it get so extreamly heave on the client and also some on the server. Since our server brokedown and the problem was Minefactory related I dont dare startup my big biopark again since I don't know what part if MF that caused it.

Now I don't know what to build to generate alot of power and not go silly like a gasillion dynamo park so for now I'm probably gonna build a fission power plant and mix in turtle and what else I can find out to put in use to autmate it some challenging way.