Spacetoad stepping down as Buildcraft's developer. :o

[hindos]

I've been on the forums for a bit and... wow ur right. It's filled with trolls, ungrateful noobs, hacks, forum-breaking updates, and useless repeat arguments. Anyone know where there is a better community we can hang out in, one with more respect for modders? My main problem is , whether I like it or not, I'm forced to used the forums to contact modders for permissions, and I don't feel like stealing mods no matter how horrible,judgmental, or unfair a mod-maker is. However, once we're done with that and start making our own mods we're outta there.

[killerx09]

Just a question here, a you against modders using Ad-fly, or against the minecraft community?

[hindos]

Just a question here, a you against modders using Ad-fly, or against the minecraft community?

It's very clear he's against the minecraft community... : . I'm unsure how he feels about ad-fly though...

[MechaCrash]

Ad-Fly is the worst thing I have ever seen happen to a modding community. I don't think it's a coincidence that people suddenly get a hair up their ass about OH NO MY COPYRIGHT around the time that there's a service that gives them a fraction of a penny per click.

I never saw this shit with Quake, or Doom, or Half-Life, or Morrowind, or Oblivion, or Neverwinter Nights, or...you get the idea.

Ad-Fly does not do a very good job of screening their ads either, and if I keep NoScript running to make sure none of their ads give me cancer, I can't actually proceed to the hidden MediaFire link. And that's even assuming the shitty thing points at the right file in the first place, more than once I've manually tried updating mods only to find that AdFly is linking to something a version or two behind.

Also the MCF community is dogshit. They seem to think that not wanting to spend a couple of hours fucking around with BlockIDs and conflicts and dependencies and redundancies to get everything going means you're somehow unworthy of playing with any mods. Well, fuck them in the eye, if my choices are to spend a couple of hours fucking with my .jar files, rearranging BlockIDs, reconfiguring the files, digging through forums to figure out why Forestry is crashing, getting the suggested release candidate of Forge, and then finding out it causes Industrialcraft to shit the bed and make everything crash when I take damage so I have to roll it all back and start over (and then restart my world when I find a world-generation option I forget to tweak) and have to go through this every time Minecraft updates, or making a few insecure modders with a shaky grasp on copyright sit in the corner and pout? I'll just take Technic.

[hindos]

Ad-Fly is the worst thing I have ever seen happen to a modding community. I don't think it's a coincidence that people suddenly get a hair up their ass about OH NO MY COPYRIGHT around the time that there's a service that gives them a fraction of a penny per click.

I never saw this shit with Quake, or Doom, or Half-Life, or Morrowind, or Oblivion, or Neverwinter Nights, or...you get the idea.

Ad-Fly does not do a very good job of screening their ads either, and if I keep NoScript running to make sure none of their ads give me cancer, I can't actually proceed to the hidden MediaFire link. And that's even assuming the shitty thing points at the right file in the first place, more than once I've manually tried updating mods only to find that AdFly is linking to something a version or two behind.

Also the MCF community is dogshit. They seem to think that not wanting to spend a couple of hours fucking around with BlockIDs and conflicts and dependencies and redundancies to get everything going means you're somehow unworthy of playing with any mods. Well, fuck them in the eye, if my choices are to spend a couple of hours fucking with my .jar files, rearranging BlockIDs, reconfiguring the files, digging through forums to figure out why Forestry is crashing, getting the suggested release candidate of Forge, and then finding out it causes Industrialcraft to shit the bed and make everything crash when I take damage so I have to roll it all back and start over (and then restart my world when I find a world-generation option I forget to tweak) and have to go through this every time Minecraft updates, or making a few insecure modders with a shaky grasp on copyright sit in the corner and pout? I'll just take Technic.

Nicely , and some what cussingly : , said. Adfly has definetly torn apart the community... if you need money so bad have donations :)

[linkthegamer]

Nicely , and some what cussingly : , said. Adfly has definetly torn apart the community... if you need money so bad have donations

That would be nice but people see donations as an occasional flow of money and see ad.fly or adcraft as a steady inflow of cash (though it is more of a trickle). I can maybe see that helping small mods just starting off but big mods could live off donations. I can't remember if I already mentioned it or It was one of the post I didn't actually end up posting but it has been mentioned that ad.fly could lead to misuse like releasing version with bugs so people will return to get the bug-free ones and such. Plus a small amount of people can be huge dickbags and do a ad.fly link to adcraft that links back to the ad.fly link and tell n00bs "oh it is a glitch in the system, just go through it for about 3 minutes." and basically form a hamster wheel of page-views to generate cash.

[Wudzerivovneach]

One could probably make several loops like that using services of that sort, have bots navigate through them, and actually suck the services dry and gain quite a bit of cash depending upon how fast the limits of the systems, bots, and so on would let it go. Though that's a horrible thing to do in general, and surely illegal for at least one reason and easily detected even if someone were to not care about the moral idea of it. Good luck using whatever money you might gain from a jailhouse.

Of course, if one could program bots to do that, they'd probably have a lot better opportunities, even if only accessing MMO servers with somewhat more advanced ones, collecting resources, selling them off, and selling the in-game currency for real-world cash. I'm sure everyone's seen spam about "WoW gold" or maybe "RuneScape gold" at one point. And, well, actually legal ones as well, like working in an IT department.

[sneezing panda]

Right, so lemme get this right so far:

Anti-Technic: FlowerChild, Sir Sengir, Spacetoad, CovertJaguar

Pro-Technic: Eloraam, Albaka, Azanor? (Last time i checked, he had that disclaimer telling Kake not to take his mod.) Krapht

Anyone I missed so far?

I'm 99.999% sure FlowerChild is just apposed to ModPacks in general.

[Wudzerivovneach]

FlowerChild is opposed to anyone "stealing" his (her?) mod in general, I'd think. Even going so far as to warn against reposting the exact post on the Minecraft forums elsewhere, if memory serves. That's free advertisement in the minds of most.

[The Merchant of Menace]

I'm 99.999% sure FlowerChild is just apposed to ModsPacks in general.

[killerx09]

That reminds me, with SpaceToad stepping down, does that mean Better then Buildcraft is dead?

[linkthegamer]

FlowerChild is opposed to anyone "stealing" his (her?) mod in general, I'd think. Even going so far as to warn against reposting the exact post on the Minecraft forums elsewhere, if memory serves. That's free advertisement in the minds of most.

From some interview I watched while probated from here I believe FC is a he. I think he is just kind of a control freak (the person behind millinare used to be) and wants everyone to go right through his MCF post. Also he seems to be strongly opinionated about stuff and likely doesn't want a Modpack "dictating" what mods he has to work in combination with (he seems to just like to add whatever he wants). Plus he has openly admitted he is a hothead telling the user who told him turntables were too powerful that "They didn't know what they were talking about" or something because he was so infatuated with the possibilities that after he cooled down he realized the user was right and ended up apologizing. Also BTW is pretty much now known as the incompatible with most everything (except buildcraft) mod.

[Wudzerivovneach]

I imagine it would be relatively easy to get many major mods far more compatible with each other at default if people just took the initiative to work together and all other such "hippie-dippie" things. Maybe not entirely, but likely down to "copy and paste into .jar, change one or two small conflicts to your liking, play." As opposed to "Copy and paste the two or more different sets of files into .jar, try to play, realize one overwrote the other and Minecraft now crashes and burns on startup, re-install and fiddle for weeks or give up and play one or the other, or vanilla."

[killerx09]

For those who want a laugh at flowerchild for a bit

http://gamegenus.blogspot.com/2011/11/flowerchild-withdraws-from-minecraft.html

Some choice quotes here.

"FlowerChild quickly gets to the heart of the matter:

-I can't stand working with Eloraam.

I have nothing but respect for SpaceToad, but Eloraam's ever increasing trend of ripping-off functionality from other major Forge mods, and dominating the development of what was supposed to be a communal API to suit her own development agenda, turning it into this bloated mass that only she's able to maintain, is just not something I have any desire to collaborate with."

"Gilberreke wrote:

It is a technical thing too, a lot of recent Forge edits have become largely pervasive to the game and compatibility with other mods, just for the sake of having complex RedPower features.

^^^^ This ^^^^

......, which also leads to her being the only person that knows how the whole thing works, and whom is capable of maintaining it.

We got into big arguments about that when the Forge first came together, but I eventually conceded, which in retrospect, was a huge mistake."

"she's using tile entities for everything and hardly consuming block ids as a result. That's cool and all, and it was a very smart move given the trade-offs she's willing to make, but is that better?" (Personal comment: Duh)

"So after the lengthy series of personal attacks on Eloraam over a number of posts, we finally learn the real reason behind his withdrawal from Forge: it's about 'coming out "on top" of the Minecraft mod scene.'"

"His claim to be uninterested in profits might be more credible if his mod was open source. But it's not."

"So while he's unwilling to have Better Than Wolves be reliant on Minecraft Forge, he intends to implement his own API so that other mods can be dependent on his."

[Wudzerivovneach]

"First Minecraftia, then the world! Muwahahaha!"

What goes on between the ears of some people? I'd be inclined to think people with such plots have nothing at all in the specified space, but then I hear the specifics and see that clearly it's very much there and very complex. Just not sane or logical at all. This "villainous plot" of FlowerChild's isn't even a good idea in terms of possibility for success. This would never work. It's also massive hypocrisy.

[vibur]

That quote is wrong, besides if you look back i was reading this thread from the beginning

I wasn't referring to just this thread. I was referring to the fact that this has been discussed to death several times already. Like Kaker said, if it bothers you that much, don't use it.

Anyway stop bearing down on my typos man, my keyboard is badly damaged from being used so much and that's kinda douchey of you to use my typos as a way of saying 'I'm better then you because I can spell properly'...

I'm not saying I'm better than you because I can spell properly. If what you have to say isn't important enough to you to warrant a quick checking over before you click post, then you shouldn't expect anyone else to put any effort into reading it.

[KakerMix]

Just a question here, a you against modders using Ad-fly, or against the minecraft community?

I am against adf.ly specifically. This is why its use (and using click-for-money link redirect anythings like it) are banned on the Technic forums. Its a shit way to make pennies. I don't claim to know all the reasons why people use it, but I have a feeling that its kids not old enough to get something like Adsense going (since adf.ly doesn't check anything in their TOS at all) and, uh, laziness I guess. Adf.ly is bad for lots of reasons, but they don't screen their ads, they run dishonest ones with buttons and things meant to trick you into clicking on them. Mediafire broke adf.ly links on purpose because its a shit site.

Beyond the technical reasons why its shit, I do think its bad for the community yes. Egos are one thing, tie in adf.ly pennies into it and you get a whole other monster.

[Maiden]

Assuming ad.fly (and ad.craft) were legit sites that were 100% user convenient and all that bullshit that they clearly are not, they are bad for the community.

First, it lets little kids think they can make money, and whenever someone first gets their first paycheck, they're going to spend it all, as the saying goes, on hookers and blow, and deeply resent anything that makes it seem like they'll get less money. It is the nature of money itself.

Second, you get $3-5 per 1000 clicks. In order to get any appreciable amount (for example, you need 20,000 clicks to make $100 with the best rate advertised) you need massive amounts of downloads.

Third, the official unofficial forums are ran by Curse, a network notorious for terrible communities, mainly because their idea of moderating is to give the most popular people mod statue and ignore the place.

When you combine all three of these together, you get a modding community so entitled they will throw massive shit-fits because they lost $10 because their mod was put in a modpack.

[The Merchant of Menace]

When you combine all three of these together, you get a modding community so entitled they will throw massive shit-fits because they lost $10 because their mod was put in a modpack.

At the same time as sending a $50 donation from the creator of that modpack back.

[sneezing panda]

For those who want a laugh at flowerchild for a bit

http://gamegenus.blogspot.com/2011/11/flowerchild-withdraws-from-minecraft.html

Some choice quotes here.

The best part is if you are hardly using block ID's you can have more items/blocks. FlowerChild is an idiot...

[sneezing panda]

I am against adf.ly specifically. This is why its use (and using click-for-money link redirect anythings like it) are banned on the Technic forums. Its a shit way to make pennies. I don't claim to know all the reasons why people use it, but I have a feeling that its kids not old enough to get something like Adsense going (since adf.ly doesn't check anything in their TOS at all) and, uh, laziness I guess. Adf.ly is bad for lots of reasons, but they don't screen their ads, they run dishonest ones with buttons and things meant to trick you into clicking on them. Mediafire broke adf.ly links on purpose because its a shit site.

Beyond the technical reasons why its shit, I do think its bad for the community yes. Egos are one thing, tie in adf.ly pennies into it and you get a whole other monster.

There is a greasemonkey script somewhere, i have it, just gotta look for it, that automatically redirects you to the download page by looking in the source code for the link and just going to it. Bypassing everything. I only use adf.ly since I got on it when it first started. The problem with people on the MC forums is they use the long ads instead of the short ones. they could get more clicks and ergo more money if they used the shorter ones.

EDIT: I found one here, https://userscripts.org/scripts/show/89322 . It works well enough for adf.ly, doesn't even show their link, just goes straight to it.

[linkthegamer]

There is a greasemonkey script somewhere, i have it, just gotta look for it, that automatically redirects you to the download page by looking in the source code for the link and just going to it. Bypassing everything. I only use adf.ly since I got on it when it first started. The problem with people on the MC forums is they use the long ads instead of the short ones. they could get more clicks and ergo more money if they used the shorter ones.

EDIT: I found one here, https://userscripts.org/scripts/show/89322 . I dunno if it works well but I assume it does, it's not the one I have though.

You should have edited in to your previous post, you can simply scroll down from the post reply screen and select another post to quote. Double posting is bad, but at least it was new info and not an edit.

I agree that I don't get that Block ID argument FC made. Also as someone mentioned from the choice quotes in the blog, not open sourcing the code does not mean you plan to profit from it, just like open source the Doom3 code (but not the other parts) did not mean Doom3 was now free. Also it would be highly hypocritical of FC to make his own API that other have to use to function with BTW as he got on Shockah for the Aether requiring ShockahPI basically saying "it was a move to make it where mods that wanted to support the aether had to be built on ShockahPI so his API would become the norm." If FC really seems to have said Fudge All to worrying about his compatibility and thinks BTW is best played as a standalone or with BC. But I really don't know, i think i messed with BTW once briefly and haven't been following up on development.

[sneezing panda]

You should have edited in to your previous post, you can simply scroll down from the post reply screen and select another post to quote. Double posting is bad, but at least it was new info and not an edit.

I agree that I don't get that Block ID argument FC made. Also as someone mentioned from the choice quotes in the blog, not open sourcing the code does not mean you plan to profit from it, just like open source the Doom3 code (but not the other parts) did not mean Doom3 was now free. Also it would be highly hypocritical of FC to make his own API that other have to use to function with BTW as he got on Shockah for the Aether requiring ShockahPI basically saying "it was a move to make it where mods that wanted to support the aether had to be built on ShockahPI so his API would become the norm." If FC really seems to have said Fudge All to worrying about his compatibility and thinks BTW is best played as a standalone or with BC. But I really don't know, i think i messed with BTW once briefly and haven't been following up on development.

Oh, well I learned how to do that today on here lol; and I think some of the bigger mods use their own API just because it is easier for them to incorporate it into their other mods that are bigger. Not to mention there can be hooks that other API's don't have.

[linkthegamer]

Oh, well I learned how to do that today on here lol; and I think some of the bigger mods use their own API just because it is easier for them to incorporate it into their other mods that are bigger. Not to mention there can be hooks that other API's don't have.

I agree that he might have his own API to run BTW on, but I don't think he is going to release it and say, "Use this if you want to have your mod work with mine". He seems to just like to keep BTW's stuff to himself from what i have heard and read.

[Cheap Shot]

I agree that he might have his own API to run BTW on, but I don't think he is going to release it and say, "Use this if you want to have your mod work with mine". He seems to just like to keep BTW's stuff to himself from what i have heard and read.

Perhaps but technically that's what he'd be doing anyway. Except instead of "use this if you want your mod to work with mine." He'd be saying "There's only one way to make your mod work with mine and you can't have it." I'm not sure which is worse. Probably the latter since it means BTW's stays isolated and we don't have to care about it.

Balls to it though, it doesn't matter. BTW's sucks and FC is a complete idiot. No sugarcoating. Straight facts.