Forcefields are worthless

[Flax]

Tired of getting griefed, got myself a zapping forcefield o-doom after testing in SP that it's impervious to items that can bypass edit protection.

Complete waste of time.

First time I return to find my forcefield house intact, but otherwise robbed (or destroyed. not sure) of the most valuable stuff. There's a nether portal in it now. Fortunately still have a contingency supply elsewhere, decide to setup where netherportals can't reach.

So I set up above the nether bedrock far in the nether-sky, where I'm pretty sure you can't get a netherportal if you tried. Rebuild using up my contingency reconstruction kit, and it's robbed/destroyed in the 8 hours I'm away again. No netherportal, but someone got in. "I'm an idiot", I realize, "They can glitch their way up like I did to get above nether bedrock, right into my base". Well, there went the last of everything.

Forcefield #1 was set up with collectors producing excess infinite lava cells for geothermal, and the nether-sky base was powered by an excess of wind generators. The forcefields never turned off, I made sure of that.

So yeah, lesson learned. Forcefields just make you a more obvious target, and are completely worthless for protective value. At least they themselves are impervious, even if the blocks inside can have edit protection bypassed with buggy tekkit items :/

IIRC, reading about recent MFFS updates, forcefields now damage things inside the shield, rather than just whatever touches it. Or at least that it had a re-write regarding field security. That new feature would be appreciated in tekkit, though I'm sure top tier armor might negate that and make forcefields worthless again.

edit: someone is going to say "personal safes", yeah yeah. EMC flowers don't produce anything in a safe, nor do machines process anything while in storage.

[joe5]

modular force fields are very useful if used correctly. If you are going to use them as an anti greafing measure ensure that your fields are always at least four layers thick with a gap of air one block thick between each layer. however, it is also important to remember that modular force fields in the addition that we are using are not designed to combat other players. It is possible to create player proof systems however, doing so is exceedingly difficult and I would caution you against declaring the mod useless until you have spent at least 10 to 15 hours experimenting with various setups. That said, I would also caution you against getting your hopes up about those new updates. As those updates are only being made to the version of the mod written by the original creator and not the version used by tekkit which is maintained by immbis.

Also, if you are going to build a force field system should be greife proof remember that you can always create your own portal and then cover it with an iris system similar to that used in Stargate sg1. Fact, properly set up it is possible to create a base which is not only invulnerable to other players but invulnerable to players in creative as well. If you have any questions about how to reinforce your current system or design a new one I would be happy to answer. Thought will not post the method of entry my countermeasures are designed to prevent. Since that might jeopardize the security of less sophisticated force field systems.

good luck

[Dodge34]

Just build your base where no one would ever think of building it, underwater bases are classic perhaps, but what if you hide yourself underwater then underground with a hidden base under your main underwater base, also a trick is to hide your stuff too, not all at the same place, so if griefers found some of your stuff, you still have something left somewhere to start over. I'll admit that some of the videos on youtube made me quite worried about hiding chests, there's are some shaddy hacked clients that can find them they will appear in red in their client, no matter where you hide them, some of theses nasty hackers should be whipped with a mouse for their creative work to help griefers.

[Flax]

Yeah I've tried all the "where no one would think to look" places, including above The Nether and under The End, under oceans etc. It will ALWAYS be found by someone flying along with X-ray. There is ALWAYS someone with Xray.

I just want to be able to log off and sleep without my EMC flowers vanishing. Seriously.

Fact, properly set up it is possible to create a base which is not only invulnerable to other players but invulnerable to players in creative as well. If you have any questions about how to reinforce your current system or design a new one I would be happy to answer. Thought will not post the method of entry my countermeasures are designed to prevent. Since that might jeopardize the security of less sophisticated force field systems.

That's what I'd like is something not even people in creative mode could penetrate. I've met more than one mod/admin that abuses creative mode. Though it sounds like you're saying there's more than nether portals and glitching upwards to get through a forcefield?

jeopardize the security of less sophisticated force field systems.

Too late.

How about a guide on impenetrable forcefields?

[Dodge34]

It won't help to show every griefers how to penetrate forcefields, there should be a way to have private guides that are restricted to some of us that would be helpful but again, some day a griefer will be granted access to that by following the guidelines and such for so long that we will grant him access and 2-3 hrs later, he will grief on a server, I've checked some griefing videos on youtube and some teams don't even know how to use their EE tools properly (lucky for the server owners at least) most of them seems to be between 10 to 15 yrs old, probably spoiled teens that have everything they want and have nothing else to do but destroy the hard work of others just to piss them off because they wouldn't be able to learn how to build great things. they can't listen for more than 5 minutes (would say they are at the level of a 5yrs old on maturity level for most of the ones I've seen)

[Weylin]

how well would it work to have a million chests scattered throughout the ground with a world editing tool?

[OmegaJasam]

Two ways of bypassing already mentioned on this forum.

1 - stop the power generation (usualy by blotting out the sun)

2 - frames to move the forefeild blocks away.

I think from below with a good eniough pick e.t.c. you can fly through them.

You could probably make a safeish one if you forecfeilded the entire area which would allow for a valid nether portal on both sides.

[joe5]

1: only possible if the defender has not planned for a siege.

2: the outer layer of your field grid should be on a timer. this is expensive but if you face a serrious threat it is worth it.

please do not post ways to penetrate force fields in the open forum, it only encourages greifing. I realize that you are simmply reposting previously mentioned methods but the less we mention them the more greifers will have to work to find them.

that aproch does not work because of the manner in which ender portals work. far better to build an iris enabled gate that you can monitor (and if you are in a bad mood you can make the iris combat enabled and berry a few tesla coils in the wall).

are you going to attempt another force field enabled base? if so I will be happy to correspond with you over how to secure it.

[Flax]

are you going to attempt another force field enabled base? if so I will be happy to correspond with you over how to secure it.

No, I've quit. Lost like many millions of EMC in flowers alone, days of work in machines etc, and last of my stuff was stolen already, don't feel like rebuilding everything again again again. It WOULD be nice however to know how to build a properly invincible forcefield irregardless.

not in the open forum

Then where?

It would also be nice if the tekkit version of MFFS was updated too so that defense wasn't so convoluted.

[joe5]

it is not simply a matter of updating the version.tekkit needs to switch from the version which was taken over by another modder to the original version which is being maintained by the original author. This version has many systems which are specifically aimed at SMP protection.

There is a thread addressing the possibility of adding a more sophisticated version to the mod pack. perhaps if you could post your belief that adding the more sophisticated version be beneficial in that thread it would help to draw attention to that possibility and hopefully put it on the radar screens of the people who maintain the pack.

I am a little bit leery of writing a guide because doing so would mean that everyone who wishes to use force fields for protection would have to use the most sophisticated defense systems possible. One unfortunate side effect of writing a guide about fixing the vulnerabilities in force fields is that it draws attention to those vulnerabilities. I will say that the vast majority of the easy force field glitches can be fixed by using layered fields with gaps in between and the outer field on a time.

though, if exploitation of force field vulnerabilities is really as common as you say then perhaps it is time for a comprehensive guide regardless of the risks to less powerful systems.

for now If you wish to PM me with specific questions or would like help creating defensive setups I would be happy to address the specific challenges you face.

[Sp0nge]

Two ways of bypassing already mentioned on this forum.

1 - stop the power generation (usualy by blotting out the sun)

2 - frames to move the forefeild blocks away.

I think from below with a good eniough pick e.t.c. you can fly through them.

You could probably make a safeish one if you forecfeilded the entire area which would allow for a valid nether portal on both sides.

3 - Enderpearls? Not tested that myselfe, but some say you can just use them to teleport inside fields made by MFFS

[Dodge34]

I know I'M a little off topic here, What ???, you can teleport using ender pearls, didn't know that, if its true that means I'm playing Minecraft since february 20 without knowing that ender pearls could do that, awesome thing to know, was sure they were only used to find the end with a recipe.

[OmegaJasam]

Yeah, you can throw them and teleport to where they land (with some minor falling damage.)

Heck, I think that was in before the end.

[Dodge34]

We learn new things every day, hell I know a lot about Tekkit and still didn't know that in Vanilla Minecraft we could teleport using Ender Pearls, I wonder what else I don't know about Vanilla Minecraft, I consider myself a Minecraft junky here, even if I started to play on 1.2.x (not beta or alpha here, the real 1.2.x (think it was 1.2.3 but could have been 1.2.4) I had a brief hacked experience with a cracked client on 1.1 then when I realised how cool the game was, I had to buy it straight away.

[danidas]

We learn new things every day, hell I know a lot about Tekkit and still didn't know that in Vanilla Minecraft we could teleport using Ender Pearls, I wonder what else I don't know about Vanilla Minecraft, I consider myself a Minecraft junky here, even if I started to play on 1.2.x (not beta or alpha here, the real 1.2.x (think it was 1.2.3 but could have been 1.2.4) I had a brief hacked experience with a cracked client on 1.1 then when I realised how cool the game was, I had to buy it straight away.

You would be amazed at all the amazing things that you can do with Vanilla Minecraft. I watch a lot of lets plays of it on youtube when bored and you can learn a lot.

For example with the enchanting system you can make tools and armor that is as good or better than a lot of the mod items.

For tools it is always good to have a good pickaxe with fortune on it as it will double and triple the diamonds, redstone, coal, and any other resource from any block that doesn't drop a block directly.

Another good tool enchant is silk touch as it allows you to pick up blocks that would not normally drop a block. Like harvesting diamond ore blocks to save for later as well as even harvesting glass blocks with out breaking them.

For armor a fully enchanted suit of diamond armor can have up to 96% damage reduction which is better than a nanosuit as well as even gem armor from EE. Grant it the gem armor has a array of other effects to increase your survivability and is cooler.

As for force fields and anti greifer tricks, their simply is no way to defeat them as they will always find a way. All you can do is ensure that your not a target or that their are plenty of easier targets. Making a complex force field system only draws attention to you as you most have something worth protecting. Which will also drives them to find ways to break it open as when you tell someone that they cannot do it, it only makes them want to do it more.

Best thing to do is play on a white listed server or a small server with family and friends.

[Flax]

You know what, on second thought, I'm going to take a break from MC/tekkit for awhile anyway.

though, if exploitation of force field vulnerabilities is really as common as you say then perhaps it is time for a comprehensive guide regardless of the risks to less powerful systems.

for now If you wish to PM me with specific questions or would like help creating defensive setups I would be happy to address the specific challenges you face.

It is that common I think. I literally couldn't leave it alone long enough to sleep without it being breached on a server that never has no more than 20 players on average at any time.

I think there needs to be both a guide on proper usage of the current MFFS. Any existing poor MFFS setups you think that will compromise are probably going to get griefed irregardless. Once they're found it's only a matter of time.

I also still think the tekkit MFFS mod needs an update regarding simplification of security and fixing security issues with anything from the other mods within tekkit that can bypass them.

[Insulus]

tried the enderpearl thing, its kind of neat i suppose but combine it with the "w" key and you can go anywhere you want in the current version of tekkit. until they update i would just hide butt-loads of chests, or personal safes =D, at various heights with butt-tons of cobble, dirt, whatever to make their lives a bleeding nightmare and hope they don't find the one with the bootie. on a side note, i don't know if its just my texture pack but the black hole chests have some alpha blending issues that make them visible through blocks at distances of about 15m+. leads me to believe your x-rayers are just modding their texpacks to do the same for items they are looking for

of course all this talk about greifing makes me think of the old saying "if you can't beat them, join them", of course in this case i mean make your own server and boot the hackers, not become one.

[gavjenks]

Forcefields SHOULDNT be invulnerable. If you want "invulnerable" then you should be playing on a server with plugins designed to do that, like worldguard (and with the various major mods all set to use fakeplayers that respect worldguard).

Vanilla tekkit is not supposed to give you 100% secure areas. It's a survival and a pvp modpack, by itself. Forcefields, just like armor and weapons and everything else in the game, have benefits and weaknesses, and they encourage clever people to do better. That is a GOOD thing.

[gavjenks]

As for very strong (though not invulnerable, I don't think there is such a thing) force field setups, a very brief guide:

1) Make it 3 thick. And all 3 layers should be projecting onto empty air, not existing blocks.

2) Make the outermost AND innermost layer camouflaged and the outer one blended convincingly with local stone or materials. (obscurity is the best security)

3) Make the second layer pulsing.

4) In the innermost layer or just behind it, set up an inexpensive extraordinarily high voltage electric fence to kill almost anybody who doesn't expect it, and to discourage them from trying again due to massive resource losses trying to get in. make sure that this fence is far enough back that people with things like destruction catalysts won't break it from the outside casually.

5) Build all of your force field blocks and the redstone that controls them out of things like copper ore and machine blocks and RedPower gates, which can't be broken by block breakers.

6) scatter a few wireless jammers around the inside of your base, set to turn on when you leave. These are very quick at killing unarmored people who may be trying to get in and snoop around without risking expensive equipment. Combined with the electric fence it makes it potentially not very profitable to get in, even if they can.

7) Don't leave any 4 block tall areas of air inside that netherportals could be made in.

8) Build near bedrock to remove the possibility for some kinds of glitches.

Alternatively, what I've found to currently work best for me:

Consider the possibility of building a NON-shielded base out of glass way up in the sky near y=250 or so. Preferably right over a ravine or something to hide any odd shadows or minimap stuff. Bonus points for building it in a snowy biome, and placing all your machines in vertical columns with snow on top (so a whole column only casts one block shadow and is invisible on minimap!)

This sort of base works very well, and is actually highly resistant even to people using X-ray mod. Why? Because nobody likes to look up. Even if you read this and know that some people are way up high, it is annoying and inefficient to swing your head up and down constantly, since most people still build underground and that's where most of the money is at.

That, + people won't see your base from far away, either because the chunks haven't loaded until the angle is uncomfortably high, or because the distance fog kicks in.

Alternative #2: the classic, time tested way to avoid X-rayers... build your expensive stuff like flowers and reactors at Z=21,000, X=15,700... Then store things you want to retrieve in ender chests, and have them sent over in response to complex, impossible-to-crack codes and delivery systems to your more practical bases, where you can instantly store them in personal safes.

Example of an impossible-to-crack delivery system:

Ender chest at your near-spawn base, empty. Anything you place in it gets sucked up by transposers at your middle-of-nowhere base and sent through item detectors before being recycled. In order to open the connection, you have to send he correct sequence of items (the ones that your far away item detectors are looking for) in order, like a combination lock but invisible and with ender chests.

So the password might be something like: sapling, sapling, rose, log.

When you get the right combo, the remote base pumps everything, for example, that your flowers have collected since the last time you checked (or UU matter, or filled lapotrons, or whatever), into a second ender chest, so that you can pick them up and put them in your safe.

And if you have EE on your server, then you have NO EXCUSE for not building tens of thousands of blocks from spawn. The void ring + rending gale rings together allow you to easily travel 100 blocks per second for virtually no cost. Meaning you can travel 100,000 blocks in 20 minutes....

Alternative #3) Make a very simple base, all of the materials for which can be stored in an ender chest. Then program a turtle to be able to assemble it on command, or disassamble it. Then just carry the chest and the turtle around with you, and you basically therefore carry your base around with you. Not very helpful if you want offline flowers, etc., but useful if you want basic machines and work bench setups and simple mob defenses for crafting things when you want to, on demand, with no chance of offline griefing.

[stringburka]

"Forcefields do not make me completely immune to griefing so they are worthless"

Eh... No. If you want complete griefing immunity, it's better to go look for server plugins, though ruining griefers are good at getting past that too.

They're not designed to completely protect against those that want to destroy your base by gaming the system. They're designed to provide protection from an in-game perspective. If you play on a "griefing allowed but bug exploitation is not" server, they do a great job at reducing the amount of griefing you're subject to. They don't make you immune, but it's far harder to get through a properly set up forcefield system than to get through a common stone wall.

If you have 15 minutes to find out there are griefers instead of 15 seconds, then they're not worthless.

[stringburka]

Alternative #3) Make a very simple base, all of the materials for which can be stored in an ender chest. Then program a turtle to be able to assemble it on command, or disassamble it. Then just carry the chest and the turtle around with you, and you basically therefore carry your base around with you. Not very helpful if you want offline flowers, etc., but useful if you want basic machines and work bench setups and simple mob defenses for crafting things when you want to, on demand, with no chance of offline griefing.

This sounds really cool. A very nice thing to build in survival too. Having a travelling trunk with both the turtles and the materials would be awesome!

[sayhisam1]

I recently figured out a rather simple way to track anyone who breaks into your base. It has not been tested in multiplayer, so I am not sure how well it will work, but it is worth a try, as it is relatively cheap.

Basically, wire up a pressure plate to a piston, and above the piston put a preset tracker.

If the intruders don't notice the tracker, its as simple as following the signal from the tracker.

Hope this helps.

[gavjenks]

I've never been able to place a tracker on somebody without them seeing it easily. Even with them cooperating to allow me to place it on them from the optimal angle... They're fairly useless except for annoying people. I wish they were invisible or something.

Also triangulators crash server, so...

Also, few people would hear a piston go off while they walk down a hallway and then think nothing of it =P

[stringburka]

If you can get them to trigger that pressure plate, why not simply link it to like 80 nukes? And a portable hole with a bag of holding while you're at it?

[Insulus]

while i do believe that force-fields should not be in the invul category they still should not be so weak that one night of enderman hunting can render them null and void.

maybe an expensive piece of equipment could be used to put a small hole in it somewhere. but to just be able to walk through it and warp to safety in about a second is i bit ridiculous. someone without any armor could make it through a good number of automated gauntlets before any real harm is done.