What's your opinion on EE2 Condensers?

[Flenix]

Hey guys.

We've just banned condensers from our server, and its apparently not the most popular of moves. So, I was wandering - what's your opinions? I'm looking mostly at other server admins here, but players can give their thoughts too (I'd appreciate if you say whether you're a localhost admin, dedi admin or player, so I just get an idea of who you are )

Before you post, hear my reasoning for disliking them. Bear in mind I'm thinking LONG HAUL here, frankly the people who only play a server for a week I don't care about, I care about the lasting player base who keep coming back.

OK, so you join a survival minecraft server, the legit kind where the /give command is completely disabled even for admins. You look around, get a feel for what kind of server it is, and you find a nice place. Now, you have two options:

Option 1: Spend a few in-game days mining, maybe get a quarry going. Gather all your resources, then start working on your house. You want a nice big wall around your house, so you make a second quarry or go mining to get enough cobblestone. In the process, you get a nice open underground area which you'll later use as storage or a dungeon.

Option 2: Spend maybe 10 minutes mining to get enough for a condenser. Whack it in your shack, and generate everything you ever need for the rest of the game using a collector. You decide you want a 50 high cobblestone wall? A few bits of Nikolite (which we all know is easy to get) and you've got yourself a few full inventories of cobble and you're on your way.

Option 2 is much quicker, easier and might at first seem tempting. But think about it - What do you do in this game called MINECRAFT? You mine, and you craft. Structures are always more impressive when built legit, because the people took the time and put effort into it. So, surely Option 1 will give you a lot more time playing the game to reach your goal, and in the end will feel much more satisfying!

So at the end of it all, my question really comes down to this; What's the point?! If you want to build quickly, play a creative server where you can also fly and not take damage. If you still want the survival feel, play a non-legit survival where you have access to /give.

What's your opinion? Do you think that every Tekkit server should always have condensers available, or would you embrace the idea of for once playing a server where you have all other awesome stuff, just you know people have got it fair and square.

Also, I'm not saying that I removed all of EE, it was only the condenser and transmutation tablet. People can still make the jewelry etc. I'm also not saying "all servers should ban EE", I'm just saying my server did and I can't understand why every player dislikes the idea. Is the entire player base at this neck of the woods just obsessed with getting as much stuff as they can as fast as they can?

One last note: People flaming, trolling, or being a general idiot, I'll just ignore. I want your opinions, and I've given mine - if you can't give a decent reason why all servers should use condensers, then don't post it :)

[nedned2k]

In my opinion, the condenser is a wonderful idea that has been implemented less-than-perfectly. being able to turn useless things into useful things is the basis of EE, and for that I love it, but condensers, combined with collectors, will always lead to far too many resources for the work that has been done.

I suppose the reason most players prefer "survival" using the hell out of EE over creative mode is that they have the satisfaction of saying they earned it. Sure, they spent 10% of the time it would take otherwise, but they spent that time, nonetheless.

As far as banning the condenser, it depends on the community of the server. If there are a lot of people abusing EE, then it should be banned, otherwise, why fix a working system?

As a suggestion, you could, perhaps, have another world where all of EE is allowed, to show how destructive it is in the wrong hands, and so you only need to show them the way to explain why they are banned on the normal world, rather than spending an hour explaining to someone who doesn't want to listen.

[Flenix]

As far as banning the condenser, it depends on the community of the server. If there are a lot of people abusing EE, then it should be banned, otherwise, why fix a working system?

Most players seem to want to abuse it. Ideally, I'd love more players like me who dislike it, but I wouldn't know where to promote for them. Seems like the general tekkit community want that "earned" it scenario you described.

As a suggestion, you could, perhaps, have another world where all of EE is allowed, to show how destructive it is in the wrong hands, and so you only need to show them the way to explain why they are banned on the normal world, rather than spending an hour explaining to someone who doesn't want to listen.

I like this idea actually. It means the kids will shut up, but I have to block them from the economy somehow, as we're trying to use BOSEconomy at the moment. I'm sure I can do it with a multiworld config :)

[theprolo]

Personally, I think removing condensers, collectors, DM/RM furnaces and relays is a good idea, to prevent dupes and the general bad stuff of EE.

The Transmutation Tablet, in my opinion, is the part of EE that went right. It's what EE is about, but it's not free, it's not dupetastic and it's not automated. Changing your crap into better crap is what EE is meant to do, and that's what the tablet does, nothing more, which is why I like it.

[Flenix]

Personally, I think removing condensers, collectors, DM/RM furnaces and relays is a good idea, to prevent dupes and the general bad stuff of EE.

The Transmutation Tablet, in my opinion, is the part of EE that went right. It's what EE is about, but it's not free, it's not dupetastic and it's not automated. Changing your crap into better crap is what EE is meant to do, and that's what the tablet does, nothing more, which is why I like it.

How come? Maybe I'm missing something, but I thought that condenser was effectively a slightly less powerful transmutation tablet but with a chest attached? :P

[theprolo]

You can automate the Condensor, you can use power flowers to create free stuff with a Condensor, and you can dupe the Condensor easily. Most of the negative effects(changing stuff to better stuff depending on your opinion aside) are diminished, if not removed entirely, by replacing the Condensor with the tablet.

[Silent]

You can automate the Condensor, you can use power flowers to create free stuff with a Condensor, and you can dupe the Condensor easily. Most of the negative effects(changing stuff to better stuff depending on your opinion aside) are diminished, if not removed entirely, by replacing the Condensor with the tablet.

The table also has dupe problems

[Teraku]

Condenser is reasonably okay. But I think the tablet is less OP. Condensers on their own, without Collectors are perfectly fine.

Personally, I think removing condensers, collectors, DM/RM furnaces and relays is a good idea, to prevent dupes and the general bad stuff of EE.

The Transmutation Tablet, in my opinion, is the part of EE that went right. It's what EE is about, but it's not free, it's not dupetastic and it's not automated. Changing your crap into better crap is what EE is meant to do, and that's what the tablet does, nothing more, which is why I like it.

Pretty much all of this. I hope they keep this system in EE3.

[Kommunističeskiĭ]

I can't wait for EE3 to come in and get rid of the "have EE or I no play" mentality that a large part of the Tekkit player base shares.

[chef109]

The reason they most likely renamed the game and made it it's own game was because they couldn't say that "it's MINEcraft, where's the mining?" The condenser is pretty much the root of the modpack itself. It helps with general survival and complex machinery such as different factorys. Really it would make it a ton harder to play without the condenser.

[theprolo]

It's certainly not the "root" of the modpack, since most players using public servers don't have access to it. It WOULD make it harder to play without the Condensor, and that's why a lot of people dislike it. I personally like the idea of being able to transmute stuff, but some people just abuse it. They think it's a great idea to spend next to no time making a blazerator, become a god and destroy the fun of playing Minecraft. It's fun to use, but only in moderation - and restraint seems to be a concept which too many people seem unable to grasp.

[Nod narb]

I've always played on servers that usually have most (if not all) of EE disabled. The only use I see for condensers (besides an easy diamond maker for EE's equipment and the occasional redpower computer) is as a trash compactor of dirt into stones. It's the collectors you have to disable. Their only use is for klin stars which I find even more useless than just carrying around glowstone dust. I say to each their own, but covalance dust and repair talismans are always nice to have. I've always wondered if someone had the idea to make a mod that does similar things; repairs items using dusts, stuff like that. Course once we update to 1.4 though, the anvil will fix that :D

[iamnotinsane]

I don't really know what others think, but mining gets boring, if your on your own just digging for ages I'd get bored, once you have the initial gear to make a condenser and have materials to condense you have mined to the extent that it's not going to be fun any more, the sooner you can get onto making advanced machines the more fun tekkit gets and the condenser cuts out the "meh" phase, so it keeps people playing knowing that 70% of their time will be spent it a cave.

[Nod narb]

I don't really know what others think, but mining gets boring, if your on your own just digging for ages I'd get bored, once you have the initial gear to make a condenser and have materials to condense you have mined to the extent that it's not going to be fun any more, the sooner you can get onto making advanced machines the more fun tekkit gets and the condenser cuts out the "meh" phase, so it keeps people playing knowing that 70% of their time will be spent it a cave.

but what about that rush you get not knowing if the next corner has a dungeon or a creeper behind it? The rush of dropping your newly found ores into a macerator that connects to bluetric furnaces!?

[theprolo]

I generally like tablets because they're about as close to the true purpose as you can go without people just abusing them. They can transmute stuff, but they can't collect free energy. In my opinion, that's what EE should be - Stuff to other stuff, not nothing to diamonds.

[nedned2k]

Personally, I think EE should be nothing to useless stuff, and useless stuff to slightly useful stuff, and so on. Also, I think the ability to automate this process should be extremely difficult to the point that it's almost easier to just do it manually yourself.

[Nod narb]

I generally like tablets because they're about as close to the true purpose as you can go without people just abusing them. They can transmute stuff, but they can't collect free energy. In my opinion, that's what EE should be - Stuff to other stuff, not nothing to diamonds.

see that's why I liked the thaumic 2 creation thingy, the one that clones objects; it took away for making strong objects!

[nedned2k]

it took away for making strong objects!

I believe your sentence structure is a bit off and confusing.

[Flenix]

Woah, I wasn't expecting quite such a huge reaction

I can't wait for EE3 to come in and get rid of the "have EE or I no play" mentality that a large part of the Tekkit player base shares.

This. This is the most true thing I've read today... I could understand if maybe half the player base were like it, but pretty much ALL the players we are getting share that same feeling. I've just put on all adverts now that we're a "Legit Survival Server" and "Condensers are banned" is clearly stated, so hopefully we'll get more relevant players

The reason they most likely renamed the game and made it it's own game was because they couldn't say that "it's MINEcraft, where's the mining?" The condenser is pretty much the root of the modpack itself. It helps with general survival and complex machinery such as different factorys. Really it would make it a ton harder to play without the condenser.

No one renamed the game. Tekkit is a launcher for Minecraft , nothing more. You still need a minecraft login, which is still checked against Mojang's servers. it still says Minecraft on the title screen All Tekkit is is a convenient launcher.

The only people who currently can claim a rename is the Spout team, who have remade the entire server from scratch to allow a decent modding API and use a totally different game engine.

I don't really know what others think, but mining gets boring, if your on your own just digging for ages I'd get bored, once you have the initial gear to make a condenser and have materials to condense you have mined to the extent that it's not going to be fun any more, the sooner you can get onto making advanced machines the more fun tekkit gets and the condenser cuts out the "meh" phase, so it keeps people playing knowing that 70% of their time will be spent it a cave.

This is why we use an economy. Some people like the mining - it's my favourite part of the game and Tekkit makes it so much more fun. Players like myself then set up an "ores shop" where other players simply buy their ores with in-game money. They still get it quick and easy, but at a higher cost. That money could have been used to expand their land claim or buy a class upgrade.

TL;DR the people who like mining sell things to the people who don't, so everyone is happy.

Personally, I think EE should be nothing to useless stuff, and useless stuff to slightly useful stuff, and so on. Also, I think the ability to automate this process should be extremely difficult to the point that it's almost easier to just do it manually yourself.

I agree. It should be more complex than setting up a full sorting machine for example, which can get very complicated if you're doing any more than storing

It'd be great if we could modify our numbers, and change what can become what. In reality, turning 8000 cobble into one diamond? That's fine with me. 1 diamond into 8k cobble? That's what I hate.

[Somark28]

I think you should just get rid of all emc:collectors, condensers, and tablets. That way players will actually spend a long long time working towards the awesome EE stuff, and stay with the server

[Teraku]

I think you should just get rid of all emc:collectors, condensers, and tablets. That way players will actually spend a long long time working towards the awesome EE stuff, and stay with the server

And without Collectors, Condensers and Tablets, that leaves...what exactly? I think they did the Tablet right, and that it should return in EE3.

[Nod narb]

I think you should just get rid of all emc:collectors, condensers, and tablets. That way players will actually spend a long long time working towards the awesome EE stuff, and stay with the server

I only disagree to tablets, they make things a little bit easier but not by much; helps with all the crappy dirt you get.

[Somark28]

And without Collectors, Condensers and Tablets, that leaves...what exactly? I think they did the Tablet right, and that it should return in EE3.

It leaves players to work really hard, and stay with the server

I only disagree to tablets, they make things a little bit easier but not by much; helps with all the crappy dirt you get.

Yeah might be, but there is that dupe glitch.

[Nod narb]

Yeah might be, but there is that dupe glitch.

Ah yes, the dreaded dupe glitch. One that will eventually be PATCHED. Unlike the Computercraft programing. I actually had no computer craft on a server I played a lot on once because it turned out someone had hacked it using only computercraft. Banned all the admins and had to reset the server. Nasty stuff.

[micecd]

Here's the deal with the those who whine about EE on your server, and all others who log in to every other server that doesn't have EE;

They are 12 year olds that don't know what Tekkit is. It's not a Minecraft game where all of the items are set in stone. They can't understand what a mod-pack is. Without knowing what that is, they don't understand what it means for a server to not have items in a certain set. All they know is you disabled a crapload of items, and they only know how to use those items only.

When I joined modded servers back in march before tekkit, I understood what it meant to add more items to the game, and experience it. I even had a field day with EE, but this is something you can't keep the kids crying from because they don't know that the condenser belongs to a mod's item list, and it's not Tekkit anyway. It's just an alias for, "A bunch of awesome items to enhance your experience".

Just ignore them, they'll find another server, but here's the thing, the top server in the open server list doesn't contain EE does it? Hell no.

I do agree though, some of the items are useful.

Tangent #1

When I play on my favorite servers, and I'm not using any part of EE, I am generally having fun constructing bases with computers, or factories...

However, when I do use EE, I'm obsessed with getting to the next level, and I have to make alchemy bags, I have to make rings, I have to make volcanite amulets, I have to make a condenser, I have to make a collector setup that contains 122 cores (I have done that btw....twice)

Do you know what it's like to make 300 diamonds a second? It's amazing for 5 minutes, then you lag, and then you get bored. Or vice versa depending on how much caffeine you ingested for the day.

Tangent #2

The game is about reaching endgame items? No it's not. It's about playing with blocks. It's also about making cool things, and friends. It's also about sharing ideas etc.

I play, and continue to play because it draws me in to create, and there's really no other rule but to do so, and "survive". But the synergy between EE2, and the rest of the mods in the pack is just downright rediculous, there's no synergy between any of the mods and that one, which drives me nuts.

Tangent #3

To those players who do whine, Get over it and go to the next server. Ask me for a good server, because I know one that's only removed the top top top tier EE2 items, you'll be happy there for like 10 minutes....and then have to leave for your bedtime....Children.