Why was the Condenser removed?

[Aurrin]

You have a valid point, but a problem comes in when players decide to be the explorative type and still use, or rather abuse, EE2. Which forces other explorative-type players who would otherwise not use EE2 to use it if they wish to remain competitive.

Yeah, as I said, there is still a real conflict there that needs to be addressed. The question is how to best solve it. I don't have a good answer for that just yet (though I reserve the right to think up one!), but I'm hoping that maybe if I can get people to understand where others are coming from, then we can move past the shouting matches that accomplish nothing.

I would, however, submit that if they're using EE2 to 'get ahead', then they're not as explorative as they may think. Ultimately, it's not just a spectrum of play styles, it's a space, and off to the side (down a few pegs and left a bit) of that spectrum are players who enjoy competing with other players regardless of field. Down many more pegs are players who enjoy causing other players distress. I simplified the point mainly to exclude people who are determined to be irritants and concentrate on more legitimate concerns between players who are really interested in having a good game.

[RutibexRut]

Creative players tend to find EE an essential compromise that allows them to still have some of the more game-like aspects early on while quickly culminating in the gameplay that they find more interesting. Getting resources is a grind that becomes frustrating as it takes away their time while giving back ultimately very little. Taking away EE artificially stunts the scope and size of their creations, and causes resentment toward the people who seem to be championing the limiting of their creative potential, hence the perception of kill-joys.

Yes, this get's my point exactly. Thank you!

Sure getting resources can be a grind, but if there isn't some bit of work involved, isn't it just creative mode?

It is to some degree when you max out, but there is a good 10-15 hours of gameplay there before you do. I like that 10-15 hours.

Mostly what I really appreciate is EE2 stepped on all the toes of the other mods. It warped the progression of everything so that you could advance quickly and get to the fun parts. You can bypass large portions of the boring grind in say IC2 or RP2 with EE2 and it's not cheating, just sticking to the power curve of EE2.

[Portablejim]

How about a mod that would allow you to instantly spawn in items, with the following limitations:

• It will only allow items you have taught it.
  
• Only certain items can be taught (like the list of EE2 transmutable items).
  

Would a mod like that be a nice replacement?

Maybe the inital stage of not having enough resources should still be present. How about if items can only be spawned at a certain rate, upgradeable with different items?

[miniboxer]

Yes, this get's my point exactly. Thank you!

It is to some degree when you max out, but there is a good 10-15 hours of gameplay there before you do. I like that 10-15 hours.

Mostly what I really appreciate is EE2 stepped on all the toes of the other mods. It warped the progression of everything so that you could advance quickly and get to the fun parts. You can bypass large portions of the boring grind in say IC2 or RP2 with EE2 and it's not cheating, just sticking to the power curve of EE2.

10-15 hours. That is an insignificant ammount of time compared to what I spend on a SSP technic world before deleting it. I have often poured 100-150 hours into worlds. Except here is the key part: NONE OF THIS WAS A GRIND. I was having fun the whole way. I was making cool builds, improving my base, and expanding into more mystcraft ages. I eventually got bored, due to the pretty much infinite quantity of resources I had then.

Are...you...fucking...kidding...me. I must resist turning on caps lock for this, but it doesn't "bypass everything to get to the good parts" It bypasses everything. Nothing has a point anymore. None of these mods have a "boring grind" stage you are talking about. You simply are too thick and absolutely retarded to understand how to play mods so that you aren't a dumbass sitting there bored while waiting for "ALL MY COAL TO TURN TO COAL COKE, CAUSE I CAN'T DO ANYTHING ELSE UNTIL THEN." And yet you continue to complain instead of taking action. You bitch and whine about how terrible it is that EE2 is gone, and about how easy it would be to update, and that they are intentionally hiding the source so we can't update it, AND THEN YOU SIT HERE AND DO FUCKING NOTHING. Update it yourself if you want it that badly, asshole.

Good day to you sir,

go fuck yourself.

[RutibexRut]

10-15 hours. That is an insignificant ammount of time compared to what I spend on a SSP technic world before deleting it. I have often poured 100-150 hours into worlds. Except here is the key part: NONE OF THIS WAS A GRIND. I was having fun the whole way. I was making cool builds, improving my base, and expanding into more mystcraft ages. I eventually got bored, due to the pretty much infinite quantity of resources I had then.

Are...you...fucking...kidding...me. I must resist turning on caps lock for this, but it doesn't "bypass everything to get to the good parts" It bypasses everything. Nothing has a point anymore. None of these mods have a "boring grind" stage you are talking about. You simply are too thick and absolutely retarded to understand how to play mods so that you aren't a dumbass sitting there bored while waiting for "ALL MY COAL TO TURN TO COAL COKE, CAUSE I CAN'T DO ANYTHING ELSE UNTIL THEN." And yet you continue to complain instead of taking action. You bitch and whine about how terrible it is that EE2 is gone, and about how easy it would be to update, and that they are intentionally hiding the source so we can't update it, AND THEN YOU SIT HERE AND DO FUCKING NOTHING. Update it yourself if you want it that badly, asshole.

Good day to you sir,

go fuck yourself.

Actually I did do something about it, and I imagine it took me longer than it would have taken a programmer to update EE2:

http://forums.technicpack.net/threads/plus-block-way-better-than-feed-the-beast.35019/

Maybe you don't understand this but I personally would find 100 hours on the same world boring. There is this funny thing where people have different personalities and preferences. I doesn't mean one persons preferences are superior to an others. Crazy I know!

[Teraku]

How about a mod that would allow you to instantly spawn in items, with the following limitations:

• It will only allow items you have taught it.
  
• Only certain items can be taught (like the list of EE2 transmutable items).
  

Would a mod like that be a nice replacement?

Maybe the inital stage of not having enough resources should still be present. How about if items can only be spawned at a certain rate, upgradeable with different items?

Yeah, that's basically where EE3 is heading. The Transmutation Tablet IS coming back. One of the best aspects of EE2, IMO.

EE2 was just too OP. Why make any IC2 item at all when you can just pull stuff out of your ass? Why Macerate when you can duplicate? Sure, I enjoyed the playstyle every now and then, for the 6 hours it lasted. I can see why people like it, but don't make such a huge mess over it.

And Rutibex, please. Just stop. You keep saying that "Pahimar could've easily released the EE2 source". He could not. EE2 is not Pahimar's mod. He probably doesn't have the source, and if he did, he couldn't release it because it's not his mod. This is why he's making EE3. He was able to make it open-source.

The original creator of EE2 probably couldn't all that easily release EE2's source too. He wasn't the only modder involved. There were lots of smaller modders involved, and it would be wrong to release the source without their permission. You're acting like Pahimar hated EE2 so much he "silenced" everyone who wanted it back.

Everything has been said about the matter. I advise you to drop the argument Rutibex, before you do something incredibly stupid and only dig yourself into a mess further.

[RutibexRut]

Yeah, that's basically where EE3 is heading. The Transmutation Tablet IS coming back. One of the best aspects of EE2, IMO.

And Rutibex, please. Just stop. You keep saying that "Pahimar could've easily released the EE2 source". He could not. EE2 is not Pahimar's mod. He probably doesn't have the source, and if he did, he couldn't release it because it's not his mod. This is why he's making EE3. He was able to make it open-source.

The original creator of EE2 probably couldn't all that easily release EE2's source too. He wasn't the only modder involved. There were lots of smaller modders involved, and it would be wrong to release the source without their permission. You're acting like Pahimar hated EE2 so much he "silenced" everyone who wanted it back.

Everything has been said about the matter. I advise you to drop the argument Rutibex, before you do something incredibly stupid and only dig yourself into a mess further.

Xenophobe is actively modding again. All it would take on his part is to say "anyone who wants to actually maintain EE2 please PM me" and it would happen. They are actively "silencing" people, or at least they are communicating their desire for people to be silenced to their fans and their fans are doing it for them. Like right here!

I don't know why you feel the need to threaten me, I'm not being rude or overly aggressive. My conduct has been golden compared to the posting styles of some of the people defending EE3 here.

[Teraku]

Xenophobe is actively modding again. All it would take on his part is to say "anyone who wants to actually maintain EE2 please PM me" and it would happen. They are actively "silencing" people, or at least they are communicating their desire for people to be silenced to their fans and their fans are doing it for them. Like right here!

I don't know why you feel the need to threaten me, I'm not being rude or overly aggressive. My conduct has been golden compared to the posting styles of some of the people defending EE3 here.

Wait, what? You seriously think EE2 is now something people silence others over?

This is exactly the mess I described.

And if all it takes is one PM, then go ahead and PM him yourself.

But if you actually read my post, the source isn't going to be released because a lot of modders chipped in with their code, trusting that it wouldn't just be released to the public 1-2-3.

[RutibexRut]

Wait, what? You seriously think EE2 is now something people silence others over?

Yes that is exactly what I think! Here you go; these are only examples from this thread if I went to the EE3 thread I could bring back hundreds more examples:

I advise you to drop the argument Rutibex,

No. Just no. Please stop this useless trolling now. If this isn't just plain trolling, I don't know what is...

Stfu. End of discussion.

seriously, just stop talking.

please shut the hell up about it.

Seriously, you made your point, stop spamming it everywhere.

So please stop spamming every thread about how much you want EE2 back.

people whining about EE2 and people telling those whiners to stfu.

[Portablejim]

Yeah, that's basically where EE3 is heading. The Transmutation Tablet IS coming back. One of the best aspects of EE2, IMO.

I was more thinking of a block to emulate a Condenser + Collector flower, which would function (with upgraded collectors) like a duplicator.

[theprolo]

Yes that is exactly what I think! Here you go; these are only examples from this thread if I went to the EE3 thread I could bring back hundreds more examples:

That's probably because they're are getting a bit tired of you whining over the same point over and over again at and about people who can do nothing about it. Collectors/condensers are gone, and nothing you say here will make any difference about it. That is why people are trying to silence you - because you're starting to sound like a whining kid. No offence, but seriously, if you care about EE2 that much, why are you sat here whining when nobody here can do anything about it? Go take it up with Pahimar if you truly care that much.

You're still going to be able to transmute stuff, which is something you don't seem to have got your head around. The transmutation tablet will be coming back. You'll still be able to transmute your crap, and turn it into diamonds. It just won't be automated unless you make a big crafting table setup. I say that you don't seem to have got your head around it because it makes nearly all your points void. "OMG I WONT BE ABLE TO TURN ALL THIS USELESS CRAP INTO DIAMONDS" or "BUT I NEED IRON AND HAVE GOLD, I WON'T BE ABLE TO TRANSMUTE IT" really doesn't work. You can actually do both of those with the minium stone, and future functionality will expand on that.

Remember, it's still equivalent exchange, just still in alpha. Quit complaining unless you get a valid point.

[RutibexRut]

You're still going to be able to transmute stuff, which is something you don't seem to have got your head around. The transmutation tablet will be coming back. You'll still be able to transmute your crap, and turn it into diamonds. It just won't be automated unless you make a big crafting table setup. I say that you don't seem to have got your head around it because it makes nearly all your points void. "OMG I WONT BE ABLE TO TURN ALL THIS USELESS CRAP INTO DIAMONDS" or "BUT I NEED IRON AND HAVE GOLD, I WON'T BE ABLE TO TRANSMUTE IT" really doesn't work. You can actually do both of those with the minium stone, and future functionality will expand on that.

Remember, it's still equivalent exchange, just still in alpha. Quit complaining unless you get a valid point.

You aren't even addressing any of my points! You are just addressing the complaints that generally get posted. I have a problem with the specific things being removed because that is what I use EE2 for. I use Condensers for lots of things I find to tedious to automate fully (not everything though! Just stuff I don't find fun). I use the Destruction Catalyst to make mining worth while once I've reached a certain automation point. I use Redmatter Tools for the same purpose. I use Energy Collectors to be able to ramp up production without lagging everything. They cost the same as a Quarry and produce roughly the same but I can run dozens of Collectors without lagging my world to hell.

How are these issues going to be addressed by EE3?

[Azeryn]

You aren't even addressing any of my points!

Did you even read what you've wrote in this thread? You have yet to make 1 point that needed addressing. All it was was whining. Either way. NOT tekkit lite related, go whine in the EE forums about EE2...

I use Condensers for lots of things I find to tedious to automate fully (not everything though! Just stuff I don't find fun). I use the Destruction Catalyst to make mining worth while once I've reached a certain automation point. I use Redmatter Tools for the same purpose. I use Energy Collectors to be able to ramp up production without lagging everything. They cost the same as a Quarry and produce roughly the same but I can run dozens of Collectors without lagging my world to hell.

First off, this is the FIRST time you have even attempted to make a point by giving examples of how you use things. Not bad. Only took you 30 posts of whining first.

Secondly, if you think that all those things you just listed will not exist in some form and you just can't flat out do them, then I suggest you log out of the forum for a bit and do some research on EE3.

How are these issues going to be addressed by EE3?

And all those issues plus more are being addressed in EE3. If only there was a place where people talk about EE3 and you can find out everything in it, its goals as a mod, and how it will improve over EE2... oh wait, there it. http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1540010-equivalent-exchange-3-pre1f/

tl;dr

- collectors gone

- redmatter tools gone

- condensors gone

- EE2 was OP, only misinformed people think otherwise

- EE3 will fix OP-ness of mod.

- EE3 still in alpha

- the things removed in EE3 will be replaced in other ways.

- There's nothing you can do about EE2 being phased out for EE3, so stfu about it now.

[RutibexRut]

First off, this is the FIRST time you have even attempted to make a point by giving examples of how you use things. Not bad. Only took you 30 posts of whining first.

tl;dr

- collectors gone

- redmatter tools gone

- condensors gone

- EE2 was OP, only misinformed people think otherwise

- EE3 will fix OP-ness of mod.

- EE3 still in alpha

- the things removed in EE3 will be replaced in other ways.

- There's nothing you can do about EE2 being phased out for EE3, so stfu about it now.

This is what I am talking about. You can see how EE3 will not fill the same niche that EE2 fills for me. I like EE2 because I like to play fast games of modded Minecraft. It's sheer power forces all of the other mods on to it's advancement curve. Now it is being brought into the same advancement curve as IC2 and everything else. EE3 is pointless to me, it isn't going to do what I want by the stated design goals. I know stuff is coming back but I also know it is going to be "balanced" in the same line as IC2 stuff. I don't know if you have ever crafted a Gravity Suit or MFSU but that is not my idea of a good time.

[Teraku]

This is what I am talking about. You can see how EE3 will not fill the same niche that EE2 fills for me. I like EE2 because I like to play fast games of modded Minecraft. It's sheer power forces all of the other mods on to it's advancement curve. Now it is being brought into the same advancement curve as IC2 and everything else. EE3 is pointless to me, it isn't going to do what I want by the stated design goals. I know stuff is coming back but I also know it is going to be "balanced" in the same line as IC2 stuff. I don't know if you have ever crafted a Gravity Suit or MFSU but that is not my idea of a good time.

It's called "progress". Stuff changes, and good stuff will disappear in favor of better stuff. Condenser was OP, and is going to be replaced by Transmutation and EMC being able to flow through certain tubes or pipes.

If you want to emulate EE2 gameplay, then I suggest you use NEI to give yourself 2 Mass Fabricators and 4 HV Solar Arrays right at the start of the game. Same principle.

Or take up forge modding yourself and make an EE3 addon which adds the Condenser back.

Yes that is exactly what I think! Here you go; these are only examples from this thread if I went to the EE3 thread I could bring back hundreds more examples:

So first you say that the EE devs are silencing you, and now you suddenly give examples of people telling you to stop whining? Way to jump to a completely different line of thought for no apparent reason.

[Seanbeag]

This is what I am talking about. You can see how EE3 will not fill the same niche that EE2 fills for me. I like EE2 because I like to play fast games of modded Minecraft. It's sheer power forces all of the other mods on to it's advancement curve. Now it is being brought into the same advancement curve as IC2 and everything else. EE3 is pointless to me, it isn't going to do what I want by the stated design goals. I know stuff is coming back but I also know it is going to be "balanced" in the same line as IC2 stuff. I don't know if you have ever crafted a Gravity Suit or MFSU but that is not my idea of a good time.

Why do you even play the modpacks then? Why not just stick to Minecraft modded with EE2 so you can amass your diamonds and fly around like a boss?

[RutibexRut]

Why do you even play the modpacks then? Why not just stick to Minecraft modded with EE2 so you can amass your diamonds and fly around like a boss?

Because there are a lot of new mods and features for old mods in 1.4.6. I like playing with new toys.

So first you say that the EE devs are silencing you, and now you suddenly give examples of people telling you to stop whining? Way to jump to a completely different line of thought for no apparent reason.

No I said that they foster a culture around their mod that encourages their fans to silence people who prefer EE2 (like you are doing right now, and the people in the EE3 thread are doing):

Can I/someone I know update EE2 for you?

EE2 is a closed source mod, and as such only x3n0ph0b3 (the original author) can grant people the right to maintain/update it. Only myself and x3n0ph0b3 can update EE2, and neither of us are going to do so at this time (and this is unlikely to change in the future). EE3 was meant to be a clean break from EE2.

Don't post any EE2/3 related discussion here, - I won't respond to non-Reliquary questions in this thread.

[Seanbeag]

Because there are a lot of new mods and features for old mods in 1.4.6. I like playing with new toys.

But from the sounds of it you just skip most of the content using EE.

[RutibexRut]

But from the sounds of it you just skip most of the content using EE.

I watch 100's of hours of Direwolf20 videos; that satisfies a lot of my desires to do the boring grindy parts. It feels like I've already done a lot of the content so I prefer to only play with the parts I find most interesting.

I guess You could say that's kind of how I like to play too. When Direwolf does something tedious/time consuming he cuts the video. Those cuts are where I would put EE2. I like my game to be the interesting parts.

[Seanbeag]

I watch 100's of hours of Direwolf20 videos; that satisfies a lot of my desires to do the boring grindy parts. It feels like I've already done a lot of the content so I prefer to only play with the parts I find most interesting.

I guess You could say that's kind of how I like to play too. When Direwolf does something tedious/time consuming he cuts the video. Those cuts are where I would put EE2. I like my game to be the interesting parts.

So what do you exactly do besides hoard diamonds and emc? If you just like setting up factories why not use creative? It's basically the same thing.

Also why are you complaining here? The Tekkit devs have no say in the matter.

[RutibexRut]

So what do you exactly do besides hoard diamonds and emc? If you just like setting up factories why not use creative? It's basically the same thing.

Also why are you complaining here? The Tekkit devs have no say in the matter.

I like building factories and automated systems. Creative isn't as fun. I know you and others don't feel the same way, but can you at least acknowledge that to me there is a big functional difference between EE2 and Creative mode.

I keep posting here because people keep responding to me

[Seanbeag]

I like building factories and automated systems. Creative isn't as fun. I know you and others don't feel the same way, but can you at least acknowledge that to me there is a big functional difference between EE2 and Creative mode.

I keep posting here because people keep responding to me

Not really much difference between creative and EE2. Flying ring and unlimited EMC means the only difference is sometimes you have to do a small bit of crafting, but not much.

[RutibexRut]

Not really much difference between creative and EE2. Flying ring and unlimited EMC means the only difference is sometimes you have to do a small bit of crafting, but not much.

You never have "unlimited" EMC. You may have a lot you may have billions but it is still a finite number. The blocks and items in Creative have no value at all. A Diamond Block is the same as a Dirt Block, there is no difference. There is also the fact the EE2 only lets you replicate basic materials; mod items and crafted stuff requires some doing. Not so with creative.

Of course this is only the top end. The beginning of EE2 is not like Creative mode at all.

[Azeryn]

You never have "unlimited" EMC.

When you make more than you can spend, you might as well.

My farm I had: A chest for each basic raw material that you could think of. All hooked up to condensors and sorting machine and crap. Anytime you take any amount of material from that chest, it would automatically refill back to full in a second or 2. I could take out 20 stacks of copper bars, and within 5 seconds or so, it would be completely full. I had this set up for EACH material that you could possibly use. All the time having chests filled with RM Furnaces just to be able to store all my EMC that I was producing. At that point I was producing about 4-5 Red Matter a second, from absolutely nothing. They were all free.

So ya. Infinite EMC. All that was done within 4-5 hours of gameplay starting from scratch.

At that point there was nothing left to do. I automated every material I would need. Anytime I would need to make a component, I would also add it to the automation process for next time. So 5 hours in, and there was nothing left to do really except build huge structures. For that, I would just run to the nearest chest of blocks and take what I want and not have to worry about farming mats. Pretty sure that's exactly like creative...

[Seanbeag]

You never have "unlimited" EMC. You may have a lot you may have billions but it is still a finite number. The blocks and items in Creative have no value at all. A Diamond Block is the same as a Dirt Block, there is no difference. There is also the fact the EE2 only lets you replicate basic materials; mod items and crafted stuff requires some doing. Not so with creative.

Of course this is only the top end. The beginning of EE2 is not like Creative mode at all.

Now you are just fooling youself