[1.6.x/1.5.x] Redstone In Motion (Redpower Frames) 2.3.0.0 (October 8)

[lukeb28]

There are only so many faces to a block and there are people like me who like the option of higher complexity for less materials even if I have a plethora of materials.

Really though, if you intended most things to be cheap then by all means your way is simpler, I was just thinking my idea as an additional option.

Slow elegance as opposed to fast brute force.

[jakj]

Upgrading the drive lets you put batteries further away. Upgrading your batteries lets you store more power in less space. Upgrading your carriages lets you need less power in the first place.

It's all about allowing you to invest limited resources into whatever suits your needs architecturally.

One min-tier battery will be sufficient for "babby's first carriage" and will be quite early-game, iron and Redstone tier. When you want to start on a tunnel bore or portcullis or airship, you'll have the stuff needed to do it compactly.

[dwwojcik]

So would a regular carriage movement would require a small amount of power with no cooldown, but a cross-dimension translocations would drain several high-end capacitors? As I imagine it there wouldn't be an actual hard-limit cooldown, you'd just have to wait for the energy to build back up to the required level for the movement. So if you wanted to slide a few blocks after translocating and you still had a bit of power left you wouldn't have to wait.

[jakj]

So would a regular carriage movement would require a small amount of power with no cooldown, but a cross-dimension translocations would drain several high-end capacitors? As I imagine it there wouldn't be an actual hard-limit cooldown, you'd just have to wait for the energy to build back up to the required level for the movement. So if you wanted to slide a few blocks after translocating and you still had a bit of power left you wouldn't have to wait.

Yes. The only actual "cooldown" is if you run out of power. Roughly, one lowest-tier capacitor, one lowest-tier drive, and the minimum number of lowest-tier carriages to actually build your thing, will be able to function but not really be able to do a huge amount and will be a rather small thing, but will not require anything more difficult than iron and redstone; A max-tier drive, all max-tier carriages, and a craptonne of max-tier capacitors, will let you put a translocator across six dimensions in continuous mode without ever taking a pause.

Note that there is some extra inherent balance in this: A template carriage is only the one carriage, because the ones used to make the pattern won't count, so that means if the template carriage is low-tier, it will not really help much with reducing the burden because most of the blocks will be outside its effective range, so by its nature anything more than a couple blocks in the pattern will *require* a higher-tier drive. The more powerful carriages (platform and support, most notably) will also have a greater burden. Translocation will be much more expensive than translation, the cost rising either geometrically or exponentially with distance, with an added cost if it is transdimensional.

(Nobody's asked this yet, which I'm hoping is because you're all smart enough to assume this, but I may as well remind everyone anyway: Yes, this will all be optional, and in fact will not be the default: You'll go in your config and do something like "hardmode=true" to turn it on. And the config file will have all the coefficients available for you to tweak, though the formulae will be fixed.)

[dwwojcik]

Is the hard mode optional?

Yes.

Ok.

translation

That's the word I was looking for.

[Ysharma]

All hail the creatine rapist or something!

I managed to recreate all my old ssp frame stuff with this. Awesome implementation, and with the multiple types of motors things get much easier to do

[jakj]

Survey time #2:

I'm trying to lay out the general materials for the tiers. I've decided after all to not use mod metals and things, and just stick to vanilla materials, and roughly these are the tiers (in no particular order):

Carriages: wood, stone, iron, gold, lapis, obsidian, diamond, emerald, nether quartz, end stone

Drives and Capacitors: iron, gold, diamond, emerald, nether quartz

Iron is obviously lowest, because it's the easiest to get out of all of them, and end stone is obviously highest, because it (in vanilla) requires travelling to the End and you can't get out of there without dying or beating the dragon. And obviously obsidian is lower than nether quartz, because you (in vanilla) need a portal to get to the Nether.

But what about the rest of it? Lapis is harder to find than gold, but lapis comes in greater quantities. Emerald is harder to find than diamond, but you can trade with villagers for it. Nether quartz requires travelling to the nether, which in vanilla requires diamonds, but is massively-plentiful once you're in the nether and can even be harvested naked with one pick, and there are techniques to let you into the nether without actual diamonds (lava mould, mixing water and lava cells, igneous extruder, using a lowest-tier carriage and drive to move existing blocks of obsidian into desired shape).

Initial idea of these in order:

Carriages: wood, stone, iron, obsidian, nether quartz, gold, lapis, diamond, emerald, end stone

Drives and Capacitors: iron, nether quartz, gold, diamond, emerald

Feedback?

[Lethosos]

Bonzer. That'll work well.

[Decorous-Badelynge]

Survey time #2:

Initial idea of these in order:

Carriages: wood, stone, iron, obsidian, nether quartz, gold, lapis, diamond, emerald, end stone

Drives and Capacitors: iron, nether quartz, gold, diamond, emerald

Feedback?

I like most of it, but for me at least, I would just rush the hell out of the end dragon and then use end stone forever. Once you get there it is very easy to mine. The end dragon isn't all that hard to kill either, one bow and a couple stacks of arrows, or an infinity enchant, and you should be able to take him down. I would possibly get rid of end stone as an option entirely.

[jakj]

I like most of it, but for me at least, I would just rush the hell out of the end dragon and then use end stone forever. Once you get there it is very easy to mine. The end dragon isn't all that hard to kill either, one bow and a couple stacks of arrows, or an infinity enchant, and you should be able to take him down. I would possibly get rid of end stone as an option entirely.

You have to progress through the tiers incrementally; You can't just directly craft the topmost tier. Also note that there is no end-stone drive or capacitor, and that higher carriages have a higher burden even as they more-strongly reduce the burden of what they carry, so trying to use an all-endstone carriage with quartz or gold drives likely won't work out so well.

[Sirloin]

Hi guys, I read earlier in this thread that this mod officially does not work on MCPC+ servers. I just did a very quick test with Redstone in Motion v1.5.2 with a MCPC+ server and things seemed to be working, at least I got some carriages moving without crashing the server. So I just wanted to ask quickly if that stance had been changed. Sorry in advance if I have missed an announcement somewhere.

[dwwojcik]

Yes, I belive it works now, but I don't blame you for not reading all 60 pages.

[jakj]

Hi guys, I read earlier in this thread that this mod officially does not work on MCPC+ servers. I just did a very quick test with Redstone in Motion v1.5.2 with a MCPC+ server and things seemed to be working, at least I got some carriages moving without crashing the server. So I just wanted to ask quickly if that stance had been changed. Sorry in advance if I have missed an announcement somewhere.

Would have been faster to open the changelog and search for the string "mcpc". Support was added in 1.1.1.0.

[Decorous-Badelynge]

You have to progress through the tiers incrementally; You can't just directly craft the topmost tier. Also note that there is no end-stone drive or capacitor, and that higher carriages have a higher burden even as they more-strongly reduce the burden of what they carry, so trying to use an all-endstone carriage with quartz or gold drives likely won't work out so well.

Ah got it, what you have planned seems good then.

[Sirloin]

Would have been faster to open the changelog and search for the string "mcpc". Support was added in 1.1.1.0.

Excellent.

[TheBytemaster]

So, if you would be as kind as to enlighten me, non-"hard mode" this mod will function exactly as it does now?

If not, may I suggest that special "creative-mode-tier", (IE; current functionality), carriages be available for creative mode use? (No crafting recipe?)

[jakj]

By default, the mod will remain exactly as it is now. To register hard mode recipes and functions, the config option must be switched to true. If the config option is later switched back to false, all blocks will retain their upgrades and such, but will no longer use them and all will act as their normal mode equivalents do now.

If you don't and will never care about hard mode, when you next update, you will not be affected in any way.

[TheBytemaster]

By default, the mod will remain exactly as it is now. To register hard mode recipes and functions, the config option must be switched to true. If the config option is later switched back to false, all blocks will retain their upgrades and such, but will no longer use them and all will act as their normal mode equivalents do now.

If you don't and will never care about hard mode, when you next update, you will not be affected in any way.

So if you don't enable hardmode, the items for the different teirs of launchers won't even show up?

Wow, that's pretty slick.

[dwwojcik]

So if you don't enable hardmode, the items for the different teirs of launchers won't even show up?

Wow, that's pretty slick.

My guess is it's a simple if statement.

if ( whateverwayofcheckingconfigs )

{

    hardModeStuff()

}

Of course, just a guess. My java skills are not up there.

[TheBytemaster]

My guess is it's a simple if statement.

if ( whateverwayofcheckingconfigs )

{

    hardModeStuff()

}

Of course, just a guess. My java skills are not up there.

Still, I've never seen configs used that broadly before, even thought there are plenty of places where it would be applicable and appreciated. Even less for Opt-in configs.

*coughgregtechsputtercough*

Anyways, I remember you mentioning obsidian/other things not being able to move anymore.. perhaps higher tiers could do so?

Another question, will each block "cost" the same to move? As in, having the same weight?

Perhaps, "heavy" blocks that are otherwise immovable, (IE, obsidian or other piston-immovable things.), should have an increased cost?

[jakj]

It'sa simple if statement that simply doesn't register crafting recipes if not in hard mode. Config files are so stupid-easy to use that I can say with certainty that anyone not using them extensively is arrogant, lazy, or incompetent, depending.

Hardness will affect block burden for vanilla, but there's no way to do it for mod blocks if they don't use the standard Minecraft functions. I'll probably just cap it for mod blocks and let it be good enough.

[Nebbie]

This might make it in FTB, actually. Their current packs are pretty much frozen for 1.5.2 while they're waiting on the 1.6.2 mods to reach stable releases, and it's on their suggested 1.6 mods list and hasn't been officially rejected. It just needs a big push (like getting Dire to at least spotlight it even if he won't actually make a new DireUFO with it) I think.

As for the the tiers, End stone is much less difficult to get when you can use Mystcraft to skirt the End exiting issue. Emerald's hit or miss on being easy or hard. Obsidian being lower than Diamond is puzzling, considering you put Obsidian before Nether Quartz because of needing Obsidian to get to the nether, since you need Diamond to get Obsidian.

It also seems like there's too many tiers of carriages. Ten is a bit ridiculous. Perhaps carriages could be limited to structurally strong things (Wood, Stone, Iron, Obsidian, Nether Quartz, End Stone) while Drives and Capacitors go through more "tech-like" minerals (I would list them, but it's the same list of materials you came up with in the same order).

[jakj]

I stand a strong chance of having pissed off even direwolf with my recent support of heph, but I haven't discussed it with him so I don't know.

As for lots of carriage types, primarily it will be for compact designs, especially templates where there's only one carriage block

[Lethosos]

Everyone was taken in by Heph, so don't stress over it. Just ask him and see. At the very least, you asked politely, and if he tells you to go away, hey, Dire's an idiot for turning you down.

[Nebbie]

... As for lots of carriage types, primarily it will be for compact designs, especially templates where there's only one carriage block

I'm not sure I understand. Why would ten tiers make for more compact designs? I think that even a three-tier could easily deal with compactness.