Why was the Condenser removed?

[Lothos]

the problem with EE isn't with whether person A uses it or not, it when person B uses it person A is forced to in order to remain competitive. This is Tekkit Lite after all which means you are playing for SMP and like it or not you have to use all the OP tools that the next guy uses.

[Teraku]

Condenser is part of EE2, which is only for MC 1.2.5. Tekkit Lite uses EE3 for Minecraft 1.4.6. EE3 is nowhere near finished yet.

The most OP thing about EE2 were the collectors. After that, the Condensers which were just SLIGHTLY too easy. The Transmutation Tablet was okay, though.

The nano and quantum armour got a fairly large nerf in an IC2 update (e.g. you cannot swim in lava with nano any more without being hurt and seriously depleting the charge - about 30 seconds to deplete all my health and all the charge on the armour).

That was compensated with the Hazmat Suit, which literally allows you to swim in lava or stand in fire while neither your health nor your suit takes any damage whatsoever, only the "knockback" view shake every 3 seconds due to the (zero) damage being dealt.

[Maxis010]

Condenser is part of EE2, which is only for MC 1.2.5. Tekkit Lite uses EE3 for Minecraft 1.4.6. EE3 is nowhere near finished yet.

The most OP thing about EE2 were the collectors. After that, the Condensers which were just SLIGHTLY too easy. The Transmutation Tablet was okay, though.

That was compensated with the Hazmat Suit, which literally allows you to swim in lava or stand in fire while neither your health nor your suit takes any damage whatsoever, only the "knockback" view shake every 3 seconds due to the (zero) damage being dealt.

Only until the suit durability hits 64, after that it's business as usual

I know for swimming in water air cans can be used to provide infinite air, not sure about the rest

[miniboxer]

I really wish they had not nerfed EE3, for one simple fact: the people that complain about EE2 being overpowered never used it! Why the hell should I care what their opinions are? I liked EE2 and I wish it was ported, it's existence never stopped anyone from not using it.

<snipped obnoxious advert>

That is such an invalid argument it isn't even funny. The reason why people who said it was OP didn't use it because it was OP.

General reply: The condenser was the most overpowered part, it was where all of the absurd infinite EMC glitches were. A macertor-blazerod loop produced insane ammounts of EMC, way more than any power flower. Everything in that mod was overpowered, save for a couple of the rings. The transmutation tablet was overpowered too, considering that you can convert anything to anything, at no cost.

[RutibexRut]

That is such an invalid argument it isn't even funny. The reason why people who said it was OP didn't use it because it was OP.

So why do you care if other people use it? No one is making you. Do you have less fun if other people enjoy over powered mods?

[miniboxer]

So why do you care if other people use it? No one is making you. Do you have less fun if other people enjoy over powered mods?

yes, because then it wrecks server economies, and people who use it will destroy the entire world just ot get more emc if they have to. It just is overpowered and full of bugs and exploits. Not to mention the tools and rings and the like ignore protections, so somebody can greif your entire base, even if it is protected by factions or towny or even spawn protections. It isn't even overpowered, it is inherently broken.

[theprolo]

Effectively, removing all the OP stuff adds a mod for the majority of Tekkit users, so for most people we are in fact gaining something by switching to EE3, not losing it.

[Teraku]

Only until the suit durability hits 64, after that it's business as usual

I know for swimming in water air cans can be used to provide infinite air, not sure about the rest

The thing is, the Hazmat Suit doesn't get damaged since it provides 3 seconds of fire resistance, every 3 seconds. You take a damage "tick", but it doesn't actually damage the Hazmat suit.

[RutibexRut]

yes, because then it wrecks server economies, and people who use it will destroy the entire world just ot get more emc if they have to. It just is overpowered and full of bugs and exploits. Not to mention the tools and rings and the like ignore protections, so somebody can greif your entire base, even if it is protected by factions or towny or even spawn protections. It isn't even overpowered, it is inherently broken.

Well I don't play Minecraft like an MMO, I don't really give a fig about virtual economies or grinding more blocks than the guy next door. I just want to have some fun, and EE2 was really fun. Playing modded Minecraft feels so small and slow now; I don't want to have put a million hours into my single player game to get anywhere just so some poop sockers on a multiplayer server can feel good about having more diamond blocks than the newbs.

[Jeverage]

That is such an invalid argument it isn't even funny. The reason why people who said it was OP didn't use it because it was OP.

General reply: The condenser was the most overpowered part, it was where all of the absurd infinite EMC glitches were. A macertor-blazerod loop produced insane ammounts of EMC, way more than any power flower. Everything in that mod was overpowered, save for a couple of the rings. The transmutation tablet was overpowered too, considering that you can convert anything to anything, at no cost.

So have it disabled by default, or avoid servers that use it, but speaking hypothetically there's no reason to eliminate it entirely even for people who want to opt in to it. I understand that EE2 hasn't been updated past 1.2.5 anyway, so that's another issue.

I run a very small server for a handful of friends who I trust not to abuse the power. I'd love to move to Tekkit Lite, but for the moment a large part of the way we play the game simply isn't there. Technical issues aside, that's a problem. If it was disabled by default and I could go in as an admin and say "Allow Condensers," it would be fine.** Mods like this are about enabling more to be possible, not less. Who are you to dictate what should and shouldn't be possible on my server?

**I understand that, at this moment, condensers are unavailable because EE2 isn't updated and EE3 doesn't have any functional equivalent. This is more of a hypothetical argument about whether condensers should be gone entirely.

[RutibexRut]

So have it disabled by default, or avoid servers that use it, but speaking hypothetically there's no reason to eliminate it entirely even for people who want to opt in to it. I understand that EE2 hasn't been updated past 1.2.5 anyway, so that's another issue.

I run a very small server for a handful of friends who I trust not to abuse the power. I'd love to move to Tekkit Lite, but for the moment a large part of the way we play the game simply isn't there. Technical issues aside, that's a problem. If it was disabled by default and I could go in as an admin and say "Allow Condensers," it would be fine.** Mods like this are about enabling more to be possible, not less. Who are you to dictate what should and shouldn't be possible on my server?

**I understand that, at this moment, condensers are unavailable because EE2 isn't updated and EE3 doesn't have any functional equivalent. This is more of a hypothetical argument about whether condensers should be gone entirely.

They don't want the powerful EE items to be optional or even exist. They know it's really popular and most servers would run with them enabled if given the option.

[Maxis010]

They don't want the powerful EE items to be optional or even exist. They know it's really popular and most servers would run with them enabled if given the option.

They being?

I didn't like the OPness of some of the tools but I still kept EE2 in full for those that did want it, the only exceptions were server busters (Items that broke one or more aspects of my server) and the collector because one of the few rules I had was true equivalence, IE no spawning tools or generating free EMC

Just my 2 cents, and a sign that it's not a black and white situation, there is a gray area which people like me reside in

[RutibexRut]

I'm not saying EE2 was great for servers, I'm just saying that's why options exist. They could have kept EE2 functionally intact (and worked on NEW content instead of remaking everything) and simply added some options. Maybe a config list of EMC values (which whould be extra handy for adding new mod items), and one that lets you edit how much Collectors produce, or how fast Condensers break stuff down.

All it needed was tweaks and config files, then servers could ban/balance whatever they wanted I could have kept my game of gradual god mod. But no, the new features list of EE reads like an obituary

• Red Matter has been removed. It was a cosmetic tier only to give people something to aim for after Dark Matter. Dark Matter is now the top tier tech in EE3.
  
• Collectors have been removed. A different method for passive EMC generation will be introduced in the future.
  
• Condensers have been removed. A suitable replacement with new mechanics will be added in the future.
  
• The Destruction Catalyst/Hyperkinetic Lens have been removed. Their functionality still exists in the Dark Matter tools.
  
• The EMC system will remain, but it will be changed to accomodate new and more interesting mechanics.
  
• There will be a method to move EMC around in "wires."
  
• More configuration options will be available to both players and server admins.
  
• EE3 will feature an API, which is not complete at this time.
  
• A transmutation system similiar to the Transmutation Tablet will exist, but is not ready to be disclosed at this time.

• 
  

The only stuff on this list is "All of the fun parts that you used this mod for have been removed, and you'll have to build yet another type of wire" Fun times! Why should I want to play this?

[Azeryn]

They don't want the powerful EE items to be optional or even exist. They know it's really popular and most servers would run with them enabled if given the option.

"they" being the creator of EE. It was HIS decision to resign EE from the ground up. EE2 didn't turn out like he planned. If you don't like it, then why don't you go bitch on his forums about it. There's nothing that can be done about it here.

And no. Most servers would not run it if it was an option. WIth EE2 around, almost every server out there had it disabled, or most of the crap banned. What's the point in a multiplayer mod that either no one uses or almost all the items are banned?

Again, that's not just my opinion on the mod, that's the creator's opinion, and probably most of everyone's opinion that uses the mod.

"I'm not saying EE2 was great for servers, I'm just saying that's why options exist. "

You're right. Options do exist. And almost every server out there choose the option to NOT use EE2, so yes, obvisouly there was a balancing problem. If you think otherwise, do some damn research and you'll see for yourself how many people/servers did NOT use EE2.

[Lothos]

I can guarantee you that on the servers that have it enabled, people were forced to rely upon it out of necessity to compete with the rest of the server.

Not to mention, just because YOU want to use EE for your OWN fun...doesn't give you the right to destroy a servers economy either.

[RutibexRut]

The creator is a douche for not releasing the source for EE2. He knows damn well that someone would update it and no one would give a toot about EE3 and it's extra grinding for less powerful items.

[Azeryn]

The creator is a douche for not releasing the source for EE2. He knows damn well that someone would update it and no one would give a toot about EE3 and it's extra grinding for less powerful items.

BTW, I love how you're so butthurt over the loss of EE2 and going on about having options and crap...

Yet, you're the one spamming in like 20 different threads about your mod pack that you put together. You know, the one where you CHOSE the OPTION to use EE3 in it... You could have easily chose to play with minecraft 1.2.5 and EE2 still. I guess you just kinda proved a point, when people have the option, they'll stick with the non OP option.

[Portablejim]

The creator is a douche for not releasing the source for EE2. He knows damn well that someone would update it and no one would give a toot about EE3 and it's extra grinding for less powerful items.

Please note that the current dev of EE3 is NOT the creator of EE2, only the maintainer. Xenophobe is the creator of EE2 and they have said that they cannot release the source code for EE2. It may be because other people contributed to the code under the knowledge that it was not open source, so it would be wrong to release their code when they have not given consent.

Pahmiar wanted the mod open source, so he went about creating EE3. He also does not want almost every server to have "NO EE3" signs on them.

[RutibexRut]

BTW, I love how you're so butthurt over the loss of EE2 and going on about having options and crap...

Yet, you're the one spamming in like 20 different threads about your mod pack that you put together. You know, the one where you CHOSE the OPTION to use EE3 in it... You could have easily chose to play with minecraft 1.2.5 and EE2 still. I guess you just kinda proved a point, when people have the option, they'll stick with the non OP option.

If EE2 was available I would have put that in too. My pack is all about having as many options as possible. It has Tubestuff which has Blackhole chests and Duplicators which are far more broken than EE. I actually like the classic PS crafting recipes (so I can make transmutation logistics autocrafting systems) and have added them back in to 1.2.5 when I played that.

It was a tipping point, everything else has so many cool features I couldn't not upgrade.

Pahmiar wanted the mod open source, so he went about creating EE3. He also does not want almost every server to have "NO EE3" signs on them.

This is what bothers me, my favorite mod is being gutted for the sake of it being too popular! Why can't people just use config options? Why does EE2s mere existence threaten server admins?

[Portablejim]

If EE2 was available I would have put that in too. My pack is all about having as many options as possible. It has Tubestuff which has Blackhole chests and Duplicators which are far more broken than EE. I actually like the classic PS crafting recipes (so I can make transmutation logistics autocrafting systems) and have added them back in to 1.2.5 when I played that.

It was a tipping point, everything else has so many cool features I couldn't not upgrade.

The duplication is an admin item and has no crafting recipe.

Intended for things like admin-built dungeons where you want to never run out of reward items.

[Jeverage]

I can guarantee you that on the servers that have it enabled, people were forced to rely upon it out of necessity to compete with the rest of the server.

Not to mention, just because YOU want to use EE for your OWN fun...doesn't give you the right to destroy a servers economy either.

Who is saying that? All I see here is people arguing in favor of choice. I want EE for my OWN fun, yes, and I would not try to have my OWN fun on someone else's server. I would do it on my own server.

[xanthan]

Perhaps it was removed because it and other EE2 items became crutches that people too lazy to just go out and get the items or make a chunk fucker to mine it for them to use instead of working. Free resources are not a good thing on a server.

[Azeryn]

3 pages in this thread, and not one reason to why EE2 should have just been updated and kept in besides "it was fun", "Why the hell should I care what their opinions are?"

/sigh... amazing discussion. 50 reasons stated as to the issues caused by EE2. 0 reasons for it to stay...

[RutibexRut]

The duplication is an admin item and has no crafting recipe.

It does in Plus Block! You can buy one for 33 Diamond Blocks; basically "you win, have fun".

Perhaps it was removed because it and other EE2 items became crutches that people too lazy to just go out and get the items or make a chunk fucker to mine it for them to use instead of working. Free resources are not a good thing on a server.

Why do you care if other people have lots of resources? Does it bother you that everyone gets to have fun without knowing how to make fiddly machines? Minecraft is infinite, even on a server you can just go somewhere else and not interact with them if you don't want.

3 pages in this thread, and not one reason to why EE2 should have just been updated and kept in besides "it was fun"

We wouldn't want to have fun in our games now would we?

[Jeverage]

3 pages in this thread, and not one reason to why EE2 should have just been updated and kept in besides "it was fun", "Why the hell should I care what their opinions are?"

/sigh... amazing discussion. 50 reasons stated as to the issues caused by EE2. 0 reasons for it to stay...

I like how you had to make up quotes to make yourself sound more reasonable.

Nobody's saying "Everyone should just use EE2 because it's what I like and you're all wrong."

What people are actually saying is "I like EE2, I understand that other's don't, why not allow for both options so everyone's happy?"