I miss Industrial Craft...

[Shoe]

There was something wrong with them. They were place & forget without a lot of effort, apart from investing resources.

Out of curiosity, did you consider the nuclear reactors to have the same problem? They may have been multi-block, but after a lot of investment and setup they provided huge amounts of power for something as simple as swapping uranium cells in and out once every 3 hours or so.

[UnholyD]

Out of curiosity, did you consider the nuclear reactors to have the same problem? They may have been multi-block, but after a lot of investment and setup they provided huge amounts of power for something as simple as swapping uranium cells in and out once every 3 hours or so.

Unless you wanted a high yield reactor. That meant having to make sure it got shut off every so often to make sure it didn't go off.

[theprolo]

People will always spam free energy if they can, so it's not really that surprising if they create a tonne of solar panels rather than moving on. Just look at the people complaining that redstone engines don't work with conductive pipes anymore, despite the fact that they produce something like 0.01MJ/t - far too little for ANY machine to use.

The thing people consider was wrong with them was that they were fire-and-forget free energy. In a single compact block or a huge farm, they were still free energy with no risks involved. That's the cause of any hate for them, and many people are hoping for some alternatives in mods such as TE and MFR which include some sort of effort or maintenance, just so it's not 100% free effortless energy. Personally, I'm not to bothered with them - if people want free power, and others want interesting power, it's a matter of opinion. However, I'd still welcome something to balance then free energy forever for nothing thing with Solars, no matter how small.

[UnholyD]

Any self-sustaining power-grid is going to be constructed from a few blocks that are place and forget. That's a completely irrational argument. Either you have maintenance-free power in the game, or you don't. It doesn't matter if it's one block, two, or ten. It had a high resource cost and a high time cost to create, which is really all you can add in the balance department.

So, if you weren't just tired of the content, what reason is there to say something was wrong with them?

Copy Pasta textures?

[Teraku]

Like I explained before, it was a single block which gave unlimited amounts of free energy once you placed it, and the entire game started revolving around them. That's the main problem: No one bothered to make nuclear reactors for energy anymore because Solar Arrays were a much better alternative. Why spend any effort on any other energy source when Solar energy was so much better? The game became a race for Solar Arrays.

Pumps and Magmatic Engine setups right now require quite some effort to set up correctly, and lava eventually runs out. For nuclear reactors, you needed a good setup, you needed uranium. And for Mark V reactors, lots of planning.

Out of curiosity, did you consider the nuclear reactors to have the same problem? They may have been multi-block, but after a lot of investment and setup they provided huge amounts of power for something as simple as swapping uranium cells in and out once every 3 hours or so.

You needed to actually have the uranium, and effective reactors required lots of planning, good Redstone timing, and Thermal Monitors didn't hurt either. Besides, they were only accessible and viable somewhere around end-game. Solar Panels and LV Arrays are available pretty early, and as soon as you get a Mass Fabricator, you'll get into a loop. Kinda like an EE2 loop, but a bit more limited and slower to start up.

If there's nothing wrong at all with place & forget energy sources, then Redstone Engines wouldn't have been nerfed, either.

[Aurrin]

The thing people consider was wrong with them was that they were fire-and-forget free energy. In a single compact block or a huge farm, they were still free energy with no risks involved. That's the cause of any hate for them, and many people are hoping for some alternatives in mods such as TE and MFR which include some sort of effort or maintenance, just so it's not 100% free effortless energy.

Because God forbid that we make energy production automated in a technical modpack?

[theprolo]

Because God forbid that we make energy production automated in a technical modpack?

Because god forbid Tekkit becomes a free-stuff-everywhere cakewalk.

You need to give a little to get a little.

[Aurrin]

If there's nothing wrong at all with place & forget energy sources, then Redstone Engines wouldn't have been nerfed, either.

They shouldn't have been. The only reason they were was people whining that others weren't playing the game the 'right' way.

Seriously, do you realize just how far into "Stop having fun!" territory that is?

[UnholyD]

All aside, I like a few "set it and forget it" power sources. Not a lot mind you. I still had a Nuclear Reactor even when I could have mad a MILLION Solar Panels. Just to power the little things though. I didn't need my Furnace or Macerator hooked up to Nuclear Power. That's just MADNESS.

[theprolo]

Seriously, do you realize just how far into "Stop having fun!" territory that is?

Not very. It's more "Stop complaining that your machines barely do anything because you're trying to power a quarry with 0.01MJ/t!" stuff. In the long run, it's making it more fun for people, not less, by saving them the frustration of not being able to do anything because they didn't realise how low the power output of a redstone engine is.

[Shoe]

Unless you wanted a high yield reactor. That meant having to make sure it got shut off every so often to make sure it didn't go off.

The Nuclear Control Pack and wireless redstone were my best friends for things like that!

Why spend any effort on any other energy source when Solar energy was so much better? The game became a race for Solar Arrays.

I guess this depends on what you play the game for. I can entirely see what you're saying, but on the server I ran this didn't bother many people: power was a means to an end, and an infinite power block meant they could spend more time exploring and building than tinkering with a machine they made ages ago. Personally I always made a beeline for nuclear because I thought it was more fun, but also because I knew that at the end of that effort if I just wanted to get on with a building project I wouldn't need to even consider whether or not I'd have the necessary power.

Tekkit only has two difficulty settings: creative and survival. There's no "grind" slider, and I guess you and I would just be at different ends of that if there was one. You think there's a problem with place and forget energy, I'm not so bothered. At the end of the day you've just got to play it the way you prefer.

[UnholyD]

They shouldn't have been. The only reason they were was people whining that others weren't playing the game the 'right' way.

Seriously, do you realize just how far into "Stop having fun!" territory that is?

I agree with that sentiment. People complained that Redstone Engines were way too OP even though they produced almost no power and required Hundreds to make any dent into powering anything. That's a lot of Redstone when you think about it. What else were you going to use it for? Redstone Torches?

Reminds me of the 1.5 pre-release Bonemeal is too OP arguments.

[Aurrin]

Not very. It's more "Stop complaining that your machines barely do anything because you're trying to power a quarry with 0.01MJ/t!" stuff. In the long run, it's making it more fun for people, not less, by saving them the frustration of not being able to do anything because they didn't realise how low the power output of a redstone engine is.

Maybe for redstone engines, though I'd advocate just letting nature take it's course, with a dallop of "Build a real engine, n00b!" for the ones who are too whiny about it. But the same argument doesn't apply so much to solar panels, especially after the compact arrays came into being.

[UnholyD]

I guess this depends on what you play the game for. I can entirely see what you're saying, but on the server I ran this didn't bother many people: power was a means to an end, and an infinite power block meant they could spend more time exploring and building than tinkering with a machine they made ages ago. Personally I always made a beeline for nuclear because I thought it was more fun, but also because I knew that at the end of that effort if I just wanted to get on with a building project I wouldn't need to even consider whether or not I'd have the necessary power.

Tekkit only has two difficulty settings: creative and survival. There's no "grind" slider, and I guess you and I would just be at different ends of that if there was one. You think there's a problem with place and forget energy, I'm not so bothered. At the end of the day you've just got to play it the way you prefer.

I pretty much agree with that one. Set it and forget it is great if you want to get back to the cool stuff. Monotony and tedium is good in small doses, and completely necessary, but sometimes you just want to blow up a mountain with a Nuke without worrying how you're going to get the power to accomplish such a feat. Also, without having to switch to Creative.

[Aurrin]

I pretty much agree with that one. Set it and forget it is great if you want to get back to the cool stuff. Monotony and tedium is good in small doses, and completely necessary, but sometimes you just want to blow up a mountain with a Nuke without worrying how you're going to get the power to accomplish such a feat. Also, without having to switch to Creative.

Especially since creative mode effectively doesn't exist for multiplayer.

Yes, technically it does, but have you ever heard of a server that allowed it for regular players? Aside from maybe VoxelBox?

[UnholyD]

Especially since creative mode effectively doesn't exist for multiplayer.

Yes, technically it does, but have you ever heard of a server that allowed it for regular players? Aside from maybe VoxelBox?

True dat brother.

[Shoe]

I didn't need my Furnace or Macerator hooked up to Nuclear Power. That's just MADNESS.

You haven't lived. I never did get around to hooking my basic machines up to 512EU/t, but the speed they did things at 128EU/t with as many overclocker upgrades as they'd take was beautiful.

[theprolo]

There are plenty of easy, sustainable and powerful methods of generating power in Tekkit - just look at biofuel. I don't think power should be a constant attention thing which requires ages of your time to just maintain - that's stupid and pointless. A multi block system to provide fuel, on the other hand, is a great idea. It just takes a little more effort than "place one block. Done." to get free, infinite power now. You don't need to worry about power any more with a well set up magmatic engine plant than you do with a solar array.

[Aurrin]

You haven't lived. I never did get around to hooking my basic machines up to 512EU/t, but the speed they did things at 128EU/t with as many overclocker upgrades as they'd take was beautiful.

One of my favorite creations was a 32-cell pulsed-fission reactor. Each reactor had four chambers filled entirely with uranium cells, and I used a digital thermometer on each one to regulate the temperature with a feedback loop, an EE2 condenser setup to keep them fueled up, three sets of redpower tubes to distribute the uranium, the cooling ice blocks, and dispose of waste, and a computercraft controller to monitor the health of the system.

It was beautiful, and could keep a bank of MFSUs filled easily, providing an entire server-city with power.

I even made a CC lighted sign for the power plant.

[UnholyD]

There are plenty of easy, sustainable and powerful methods of generating power in Tekkit - just look at biofuel. I don't think power should be a constant attention thing which requires ages of your time to just maintain - that's stupid and pointless. A multi block system to provide fuel, on the other hand, is a great idea. It just takes a little more effort than "place one block. Done." to get free, infinite power now. You don't need to worry about power any more with a well set up magmatic engine plant than you do with a solar array.

True, but I like to think you could do the "green energy" thing better with Solar than you could Biofuel or Lava.

Now that I think about it, I never did create a Jetpack and use Biofuel to power it. I always used the Electric one. And I didn't grab much Lava from the Nether to power anything either. Hmm...

[UnholyD]

One of my favorite creations was a 32-cell pulsed-fission reactor. Each reactor had four chambers filled entirely with uranium cells, and I used a digital thermometer on each one to regulate the temperature with a feedback loop, an EE2 condenser setup to keep them fueled up, three sets of redpower tubes to distribute the uranium, the cooling ice blocks, and dispose of waste, and a computercraft controller to monitor the health of the system.

It was beautiful, and could keep a bank of MFSUs filled easily, providing an entire server-city with power.

I even made a CC lighted sign for the power plant.

Now try doing all that with Buildcraft power. This was stated rhetorically.

[theprolo]

Now try doing all that with Buildcraft power. This was stated rhetorically.

In all fairness, you haven't been able to do that in IC2 either since 1.2.5 - for more than just the reason of missing EE2. The technic team have their eyes on a replacement nuclear reactor mod though, which looks promising.

[UnholyD]

You haven't lived. I never did get around to hooking my basic machines up to 512EU/t, but the speed they did things at 128EU/t with as many overclocker upgrades as they'd take was beautiful.

I tended to fill many a Batbox, MFE, or MFSU on just Solar Power. Though I didn't have any overly elaborate mining setups that required a massive amount of continuous power to Macerate or Smelt anything. I tended to do most of the mining by hand. With a Drill or Laser.

Now that I think about it, punching stone with a mechanical hand is much less cool that shooting a laser at it. POWER TOOLS ARE LAME COMPARED TO MINING LASERS!!!

[UnholyD]

In all fairness, you haven't been able to do that in IC2 either since 1.2.5 - for more than just the reason of missing EE2. The technic team have their eyes on a replacement nuclear reactor mod though, which looks promising.

I hear all of this and keep thinking. Either it's going to produce Buildcraft MJ which would make it a Buildcraft Engine (think on what THAT would look like) or it's going to produce Joules in the like of Universal Electricity devices which means that Voltz will eventually merge with Tekkit.

[theprolo]

AFAIK it's Buildcraft.

And no, not all Buildcraft producers are engines. Look at Biofuel (again). It's just the preferred style of Buildcraft and it's addons.