Asshole not happy with our job performance. This close to firing us! Oh no!

[ErusPrime]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

Everything I have asked you to fix are very minor configuration tweaks or very small code changes that are not going to take more than a tiny fraction of the time that has already gone into the pack.

you are a self righteous, entitled, ass clown.

put your own goddamn seat in your free fucking car and stop whining.

any changes I've wanted to make to the configuration files, I've done myself or other users have done and posted for the rest of us.

The nerve of some of these users is astounding. Why don't you try to recreate the technic pack yourself. There's an entire team dedicated to making sure we're getting the most up to date mods and that they are as bug free as they can be.

[Cheap Shot]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

[freakachu]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

man, why do I always miss the good threads?

[jakj]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

Bonus points to CheapShot for oldschool Mac font.

[gummby8]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

You don't seem to be able to grasp the complexity of these "simple fixes" you're touting. They would have to find them, collect them, put them in, test them, change them when testing reveals they're only half-fixes or the problem is more complex than that, and assume they do finally get every last little thing ironed out somehow............and then a mod updates! And the mod update fucks things up again! Yay, rinse-and-repeat time.

It's called a pull request. Someone fixes a bug you are too busy to deal with. All you have to do is test teh validity of the fix, and impliment it. Pretty much every dev on bukkit does it. Thats the beauty of a community. The tekkit devs could impliment the fixes and spend a day testing their validity. And then release a patched client bug free!

Or someone here could write a walkthrough of every bug and the 4 hours of patching and config writing that is needed simply to get Tekkit to work with basic plugins, like towny or worldguard.

I find it absolutly rediculous that the block place bug is still present months after release, that literaly makes protection plugins such as towny or worldguard useless. If bukkit had such a problem they would have it patched within a few hours of the bug being confirmed. Tekkit? "Oh build perm plugins are broken? Meh fix it yourself. We just put the mods in this cool looking package for you."

[perpetualgamer]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

Can you please label the subject "Whiny Kid whines again: Blah" because I almost missed this gem, thanks guys

I was just barely Whiny, and i'm sorry.

[sct]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

It's called a pull request. Someone fixes a bug you are too busy to deal with. All you have to do is test teh validity of the fix, and impliment it. Pretty much every dev on bukkit does it. Thats the beauty of a community. The tekkit devs could impliment the fixes and spend a day testing their validity. And then release a patched client bug free!

Or someone here could write a walkthrough of every bug and the 4 hours of patching and config writing that is needed simply to get Tekkit to work with basic plugins, like towny or worldguard.

I find it absolutly rediculous that the block place bug is still present months after release, that literaly makes protection plugins such as towny or worldguard useless. If bukkit had such a problem they would have it patched within a few hours of the bug being confirmed. Tekkit? "Oh build perm plugins are broken? Meh fix it yourself. We just put the mods in this cool looking package for you."

I dont think you really have any idea what you are talking about either. Tekkit is a pack of mods. What you are suggesting is a git repository with all the source code of all of these mods. Keeping that up to date and merging pull requests would just be stupid.

[Shalashalska]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

One big thing I found was that you guys didn't even test to make sure that the mods worked in the slightest. Computercraft DID NOT WORK at all, because somebody decided not to test, and find that all you have to do to fix it is to rename one folder.

[ErusPrime]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

One big thing I found was that you guys didn't even test to make sure that the mods worked in the slightest. Computercraft DID NOT WORK at all, because somebody decided not to test, and find that all you have to do to fix it is to rename one folder.

The OP was banned for being a jackass. why would you join in the jackassery?

[ewokz]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

I'm not too sure how why you think he's being a jackass, his post raised a good point, minus the rage of the banned member your referring to.

Simple testing would have unearthed the computercraft problem, though I imagine its just something the Technic crew will keep in mind in future.

[ErusPrime]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

I'm not too sure how why you think he's being a jackass, his post raised a good point, minus the rage of the banned member your referring to.

Simple testing would have unearthed the computercraft problem, though I imagine its just something the Technic crew will keep in mind in future.

It's a modpack. There's a lot of work that goes into making sure all the mods will at least let the game start let alone configuring absolutely everything. This is why they added bug boards. If you find a bug and a fix, post it in the appropriate forum. Don't get mad at them for doing work you didn't want to do in the first place.

[DoodTheDud]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

I'm not too sure how why you think he's being a jackass, his post raised a good point, minus the rage of the banned member your referring to.

Simple testing would have unearthed the computercraft problem, though I imagine its just something the Technic crew will keep in mind in future.

I googled "Computercraft error" and had the problem fixed on my server in 30 seconds. And I'm not exactly a tech genius. I'm really not seeing why this is so inexcusable.

[ewokz]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

@ErusPrime I wouldn't consider a mod functioning as a problem with "configuration" its a far larger issue than that. Configuration is obviously something to be done by users to make the pack function how they would like. It's not wrong to want the technic pack to include functioning mods advertised on the homepage.

Computer craft not working at release clearly shows that not enough testing was done to ensure the mods in the pack functioned; like I've said though the technic crew have probably taken this into account with the newer releases.

Could you please explain how I'm acting "mad" by the way? I believe I'm putting my posts in the most neutral and rational way possible.

@DoodTheDud neither me or Shalashalska said it was inexcusable, just that it was an issue with the pack that could have been easily caught before release, nothing more nothing less.

[DoodTheDud]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

@ErusPrime I wouldn't consider a mod functioning as a problem with "configuration" its a far larger issue than that. Configuration is obviously something to be done by users to make the pack function how they would like. It's not wrong to want the technic pack to include functioning mods advertised on the homepage.

Computer craft not working at release clearly shows that not enough testing was done to ensure the mods in the pack functioned; like I've said though the technic crew have probably taken this into account with the newer releases.

Could you please explain how I'm acting "mad" by the way? I believe I'm putting my posts in the most neutral and rational way possible.

@DoodTheDud neither me or Shalashalska said it was inexcusable, just that it was an issue with the pack that could have been easily caught before release, nothing more nothing less.

And remembering to bring wood or food with me on minecraft adventures is easy too, but I still fuck it up on a nearly daily basis. People make mistakes. THey think about big things and forget little ones. I dunno, I don't feel like it's really a valid issue if you just need to change 1 file by a few letters in the server directory. Small price to play for such a handy and easily-installed modpack.

I'd be more concerned about the blockplace thing, but I've never used world-protection mods. I run a server for a few friends and whitelist it. Heh.

[DatOneGuy]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

So having read this, some of the points are quite valid but it seems the entire thread including moderators simply ignored this because a single point was 'condescending' (and not really that much so).

Could these things not be actually addressed?

In attempting to change a lot of the things like this I have found digging through that there are indeed quite a lot of problems, literally having played on Tekkit for a week I've found several huge balance issues myself.

These obviously can be worked on with time, and hopefully will be, OPs point is quite valid.

Now I can understand, having read these pages and several others on the forums why the OPs simply banned him instead of addressing this problem, but that doesn't solve anything, that is naught but a temporary fix. If the actual website was clear enough (without having to dive into the forums which don't exactly seem friendly compared to most forums in terms of layout) it would address all these problems and the many many more as well as have links to guides or guides themselves readily available to help you deal with specifically modifying your server to 'fix' these many issues.

[SimpleGuy]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

So how exactly does the team balance it for every server out there? Would you balance it with EE in mind? Because many servers have it disabled. Do you just "turn off" water strainers for everybody, despite some smaller servers using a few them? (Fuck them, let them do the work so long as I get my way easier!) Do you go in and gear the pack for the Roleplayers, the EE-Creative people, the Tekkit-Hardcore people, the WorldGuard people, the Faction people, the <insert non-Technic plugin addons here> people? What about MCMMO, do we just get rid of the ChopTree mod because it makes wood chopping skills pointless?

That's the difference between a shitty server and a good server, in that each server administrator does their own balancing. The Technic Team gives you the canvas, and good server operators will paint the Mona Lisa with it. The bad ones will leave EE and Crafting Table II enabled.

The Technic Team hasn't and will never tell anyone how to play the pack (Technic or Tekkit). And as such doesn't balance it for anyone.

[ErusPrime]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

So how exactly does the team balance it for every server out there? Would you balance it with EE in mind? Because many servers have it disabled. Do you just "turn off" water strainers for everybody, despite some smaller servers using a few them? (Fuck them, let them do the work so long as I get my way easier!) Do you go in and gear the pack for the Roleplayers, the EE-Creative people, the Tekkit-Hardcore people, the WorldGuard people, the Faction people, the <insert non-Technic plugin addons here> people? What about MCMMO, do we just get rid of the ChopTree mod because it makes wood chopping skills pointless?

That's the difference between a shitty server and a good server, in that each server administrator does their own balancing. The Technic Team gives you the canvas, and good server operators will paint the Mona Lisa with it. The bad ones will leave EE and Crafting Table II enabled.

The Technic Team hasn't and will never tell anyone how to play the pack (Technic or Tekkit). And as such doesn't balance it for anyone.

[jakj]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

I think there's a bit of a disconnect here, because some people are talking about bugs/errors, and some people are talking about tweaks/balancing. That said, I don't think anything productive is going on in this discussion anyway.

[DatOneGuy]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

So how exactly does the team balance it for every server out there? Would you balance it with EE in mind? Because many servers have it disabled. Do you just "turn off" water strainers for everybody, despite some smaller servers using a few them? (Fuck them, let them do the work so long as I get my way easier!) Do you go in and gear the pack for the Roleplayers, the EE-Creative people, the Tekkit-Hardcore people, the WorldGuard people, the Faction people, the <insert non-Technic plugin addons here> people? What about MCMMO, do we just get rid of the ChopTree mod because it makes wood chopping skills pointless?

That's the difference between a shitty server and a good server, in that each server administrator does their own balancing. The Technic Team gives you the canvas, and good server operators will paint the Mona Lisa with it. The bad ones will leave EE and Crafting Table II enabled.

The Technic Team hasn't and will never tell anyone how to play the pack (Technic or Tekkit). And as such doesn't balance it for anyone.

You do two very simple things:

1)You remove as many bugs as possible, I understand this isn't always possible, I understand there is difficulty here, and I understand that this is never 100% complete either.

2)You balance with it in mind that people will use it as 'default', for those that disconnect, that isn't exactly the spirit of the pack is it? I admit I haven't played long, so I can't say what the actual spirit of it is, but in other words you go with a 'total package' in mind. Attempting to leave the options for people who would want to disable EE to do so and also keep some sort of balance themselves, however making any balance changes specific to the 'Overall'.

3)'Fuck them' is the exact attitude that should be avoided, while you may not make money on this, it is appreciated and I'm sure people donate as well (although not as many as you would hope, as is usually the case)

I believe the main disconnect here from my understanding is the servers I've played on and server runners I've spoken with seem to simply see "tekkit is good" and start with that, but by itself, default, out of the pack which is what they seem to be looking for, it's kinda shitty, not in a 'oh man they could have done better' but in a 'wow I can break this easy', now this isn't a problem with tekkit at all, it's a problem with people's expectations of what it is I guess.

I don't see the page in Tekkit saying "Hey you can also add some add-ons too, here's a good link on how to do that', it just mainly lists what add-ons are there, that's it.

You guys do a great job in what you do, I understand that, do that many people just run tekkit/technic and toss up other mods as opposed to just adding the mods, and if so is it that important to set up those mods? If they are already modding it, those are the kinds of people who would know what to edit to get rid of and what to keep if they were adding things like mcMMO or whatever it is.

If I knew how to edit mods or if that was possible I'd try to fix most of the things I think are broken myself, as the mods within Tekkit are all really good, but just have some adjusting to fix things, however I don't know how to, and my attempts to learn have been in vain, searching several forums and asking as well as doing a lot of reading on the subjects.

TL;DR - Whatever your target audience is, dismissing other groups who came to expect something and get something else probably is not the best idea, helping them along is. If I came on these forums and saw this as one of the first threads I would think very poorly of the community in general (indeed as I did), so considering your response is a good idea. Making your actual intent and target audience clear is also a good idea in the future if you are going to target one thing instead of another.

I think there's a bit of a disconnect here, because some people are talking about bugs/errors, and some people are talking about tweaks/balancing. That said, I don't think anything productive is going on in this discussion anyway.

Both bugs/errors and tweaks/balancing both fall under the same umbrella however in overall major problems. Identifying them as each would usually help a conversation for an outsider but isn't necessary if everyone is following on, as even a newcomer(as my self) is apt to do, there is no problem. Speaking of them both in tandem also has it's benefits as they can effect each other as far as short term solutions come into play.

[SimpleGuy]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

You do two very simple things:

1)You remove as many bugs as possible, I understand this isn't always possible, I understand there is difficulty here, and I understand that this is never 100% complete either.

2)You balance with it in mind that people will use it as 'default', for those that disconnect, that isn't exactly the spirit of the pack is it? I admit I haven't played long, so I can't say what the actual spirit of it is, but in other words you go with a 'total package' in mind. Attempting to leave the options for people who would want to disable EE to do so and also keep some sort of balance themselves, however making any balance changes specific to the 'Overall'.

3)'Fuck them' is the exact attitude that should be avoided, while you may not make money on this, it is appreciated and I'm sure people donate as well (although not as many as you would hope, as is usually the case)

That's the thing, we're not going to promote some sort of "default" play. We don't have "Official Tekkit" servers for this very reason (among others). We don't try to unify everyone that plays the pack into one mindset. Thus there is no balancing for the "overall". Like I mentioned before, the main purpose of the Tekkit part of the launcher is so servers don't need a 20-30 step guide on how to download certain mods, where to put them in your client, what config you need to edit, etc. It's a canvas, allowing server admins to say to its members "Get the launcher and press play" instead, while they edit backend stuff as they want. And we're not about to draw a line and say "This is default, sorry your oil buckets have negative energy returns now because our Marketing dept. said that would help us get the Greenpeace demographic." By not making a "default", we don't say "fuck them" to any one group, because who wants to be left out of the cool tree fort club?

I don't see the page in Tekkit saying "Hey you can also add some add-ons too' date=' here's a good link on how to do that', it just mainly lists what add-ons are there, that's it.[/quote']

That's the point of the community. Make it yourself, and share. The Technic Team isn't the "Technic and Everything Else Is Supported Too" Team, they're taking separate mods and making it compatible with each other and for easy launcher delivery. Community members fill in the gaps elsewhere. The glory is, the Technic Team gets to keep doing their awesome thing, people like me and Jay? and freakachu and Ragnar keep idiots and pirates out so the rest of us can have a great experience here without :diamond::diamond::diamond::diamond: and actually share content.

[Njordin]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

Just disable the collectors and everything is fine : )

[The Merchant of Menace]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

3)'Fuck them' is the exact attitude that should be avoided, while you may not make money on this, it is appreciated and I'm sure people donate as well (although not as many as you would hope, as is usually the case)

Minor point, the Technic team don't take donations, they pay for all the Technic hosting out of their own pockets.

[Captain Man]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

I think this thread derailed into Drama Valley, but I can't blame anyone. Here's the ways I see it, the key bindings can be fixed in less than a minute and the user can modify them the way they want to. If Team Technic Squad Force United did it for you, I'd bet most people would change it around anyways cause they don't want ctrl to be zoom or something like that. Next, any issue you have with a particular mod being "OP" to another is silly if you are a server admin, just disable that block or something. Any issue you have with a block that causes lag is silly too if you're blaming Technic Rangers Universe, Inc. because they didn't make that block cause the lag! Just because a user made fix exists doesn't mean it should be brought into the actual game because you prefer it. Others may loathe it or prefer to have their options open.

[Nphyx]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

One thing I don't understand. If the problems mentioned are "super easy fixes", why not just STFU and fix them instead of throwing a tantrum about how someone didn't do it for you? @.@

As far as server-side config issues, if you're so damn lazy you can't be bothered to configure a server before opening it up to the public you do *not* need to be running a server. There are a *ton* of things you need to do behind the scenes on a server as an admin with or without tekkit - setting up backups, updates, mapping tools, configuring privileges for your staff and players, potentially doing map editing, etc. There is no such thing as an "out of the box" server. Even a vanilla server doesn't roll itself. If you can't be buggered to change some numbers in a config file as a part of that eff off and give up on running a server right now.

[gummby8]

Re: Next Go-Around, please configure the pack better for balance and gameplay

Yes I agree that there is some configuring needed for a server to function. But I should never have to unpack a jar and replace class files because the monster spawn tile is borked. Or do the same because the block place event isn't working.

THOSE sort of bugs should get fixed within a day or confirming that the bug exists