Unpleasant News For The Future Of Tekkit

[jakj]

How? In the future, Forge and Bukkit may be unresolvably incompatible, leaving a Bukkit modpack of Forge mods near-impossible.

Frustrating announcement: unless I can get some cooperation from bukkit, forgebukkit is dead. A 40-60 hour 1.4.2 merge awaits.. Sod that.

Frustrating announcement: unless I can get some cooperation from bukkit, forgebukkit is dead. A 40-60 hour 1.4.2 merge awaits.. Sod that.

— voxcpw (@voxcpw) November 1, 2012

Also, yes this means the old tekkit server is dead as well...

Also, yes this means the old tekkit server is dead as well...

— voxcpw (@voxcpw) November 1, 2012

[Xylord]

How? In the future, Forge and Bukkit may be unresolvably incompatible, leaving a Bukkit modpack of Forge mods near-impossible.

Uh, this is displeasing. Who do we have to /SARCASM/"thank"/SARCASM/ for this?

[jakj]

Uh, this is displeasing. Who do we have to /SARCASM/"thank"/SARCASM/ for this?

You have the Bukkit team to thank for it. Some choice quotations:

minecraftcpw ‏@minecraftcpw

@Ashfire908 @CraftBukkit Given they've told me to FOAD in no uncertain terms in the past, I'm very skeptical. Hence my announcement

minecraftcpw ‏@minecraftcpw

@Ashfire908 @CraftBukkit @jkazos yup. choose. forge or bukkit. I know which choice I'm making. Bukkit can't compete. Forge is still alive.

minecraftcpw ‏@minecraftcpw

@Ashfire908 @CraftBukkit @jkazos all bukkit plugins should be portable to forge.Come on over! We listen over here- just ask nicely

minecraftcpw ‏@minecraftcpw

@D4rK_CooL @EvilSeph one of his minions already declined my request. I hold no hope of a change of heart...

[disconsented]

Well that sucks.

[ErusPrime]

dude. +1 for insular.

vocabularies is sexy.

also, I hope forge comes out on top for this one. I think they've done more for creating a better MC community than bukkit. There's still some silos and bridges to be crossed but I really feel they're working towards mods becoming easily accessible, easily updated, and easier to manage.

[Omicron]

If only Mojang didn't keep pushing back the modding API over and over and over. Originally it was planned for "directly after v1.0". Unfortunately v1.0 is now a year ago, and they haven't even started on the API yet...

Even though I doubt the official API will provide all the hooks that modders need, it would definitely reduce the workload of those people developing the community APIs, and reduce the frequencies of silly incompatibilities.

[okamikk]

If only Mojang didn't keep pushing back the modding API over and over and over. Originally it was planned for "directly after v1.0". Unfortunately v1.0 is now a year ago, and they haven't even started on the API yet...

Even though I doubt the official API will provide all the hooks that modders need, it would definitely reduce the workload of those people developing the community APIs, and reduce the frequencies of silly incompatibilities.

yeah, good luck with that little dream world of yours... if you wish to continue this exchange of words, do it in PM's

[Omicron]

...huh? *confused*

The words look like English, but I have no idea what the heck you're on about or what it has to do with what I said. Are you sure you quoted the correct post?

[gavjenks]

I don't think this is anything to be HORRIBLY concerned about.

Bukkit is not actually needed for any of the tekkit mods. It's there for convenience for large servers with lots of strangers they dont trust, since bukkit is the place to go for things like worldguard, etc.

However, bukkit plugins never really worked all that well in tekkit anyway (very hard to block all the destructive crap from wreaking havoc and still let people use more than 20% of the modpack). Also, it is entirely possible that Forge will begin to include more serverside coding hooks soon, so that people will be able to code basic server management plugins IN FORGE itself. Thus, tekkit could just abandon bukkit, keep all the same client mods, and people could do rudimentary server management with forge server plugins.

I assume that that would be plenty good enough to allow us tokeep up with MC updates, and bide our time until a Mojang API comes out, to truly unlock the potential again for very powerful client and server mods. But that sort of thing is in no way required to make things work still.

It would be nice, however, if the tekkit team were to put out a forge-only version ASAP though, in light of this news (RP and a couple other essentials aren't up to 1.3.2 yet, sadly, but after that yes)

[Lothos]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the majority of the bukkit team brought on board over a year ago now into mojang with the hope/intent of improving the smp side of the house?

and yes, given a simple either/or between forge or bukkit, forge wins every time IMO.

[TK381]

Now before I get my head bit off, I want to say something. I truly don't know if tekkit is going to be ANYTHING like this version of tekkit in the next update, I have a feeling it is going to be a rough transistion over. If it all goes horribly wrong I may just stay on 1.2.5, so now forge and bukkit are not compatible anymore, this really sucks :C

[The_DarthMoogle]

That's a slightly convoluted decision, and stinks of 'cop-out'.

It's not exactly 'either/or' in terms of functionality; Bukkit or Forge can't 'win' anything.

So why was it considered a waste of time to continue compatibility for two widely used and great systems?

Is there not a suitable replacement for either/or?

[ampayne2]

I don't think this is anything to be HORRIBLY concerned about.

Bukkit is not actually needed for any of the tekkit mods. It's there for convenience for large servers with lots of strangers they dont trust, since bukkit is the place to go for things like worldguard, etc.

That's exactly why I AM horribly concerned...

[gavjenks]

That's a slightly convoluted decision, and stinks of 'cop-out'.

It's not exactly 'either/or' in terms of functionality; Bukkit or Forge can't 'win' anything.

So why was it considered a waste of time to continue compatibility for two widely used and great systems?

Is there not a suitable replacement for either/or?

Apparently, due to something that changed in 1.3, and due to the bukkit people not having open source code or having the staff or motivation to work together with Forge, it would take literally almost 100 hours of work for every single MC update to make the forgebukkit build that is needed to port things over.

The people who used to do it just said "Sod this" and decided not to waste 100 hours of their time every update anymore.

Thus, without the ability to easily port things from one API to the other, forge and bukkit are now basically isolated, and they modify some of the same class files, so they are incompatible.

Thus, it IS an either/or choice from here on out, it looks like. And Bukkit or Forge can indeed "win" something: users. They will both want as many users as possible. So Forge now has a motive to expand its serverside capabilities to allow forge-based competitors for things like worldguard and worldedit and so forth, in order to attempt to provide the only full server AND client mod platform.

Hopefully, this increased motivation will speed up people working on things like that, and there will be workable, forge-only server management plugins in the somewhat near future.

[thevortex]

indeed, and there is already work towards bukkit-like replacements, for example Dries007 is working on SimpleCore, which provides basic locking, region creation/protection, and other usefull commands(/home , /warp , /tpa etc) so really, if bukkit is unwilling to work together with forge, there are other options, it just may take us some time to get there 100%

[andrewdonshik]

In my opinion, if Forge gets a quote on quote "plugins" system, they'll win out in the end, as shown by bukkit's non-cooperation. Also, all we would really need is a spoutcraft-esque system so we won't need a Mojang API.

[ampayne2]

If it does get a plugin system, I will actively code plugins for my server and anyone who wants them, since there will be such a big demand.

[andrewdonshik]

If it does get a plugin system, I will actively code plugins for my server and anyone who wants them, since there will be such a big demand.

Yes. Yes please. Also, wouldn't that solve block event routing problems/the need for a fakeplayer?

[thevortex]

it has the plugin system, replace the word plugin with the word mod, you can create mods which are server side only and require no client side component, the issue here is an easy to use API, and that is what Forge will hopefully be bringing us soon, you could create your 'plugins' for forge now, it just requires a lot of extra work. See Dries007 github here https://github.com/dries007/

[andrewdonshik]

it has the plugin system, replace the word plugin with the word mod, you can create mods which are server side only and require no client side component, the issue here is an easy to use API, and that is what Forge will hopefully be bringing us soon, you could create your 'plugins' for forge now, it just requires a lot of extra work. See Dries007 github here https://github.com/dries007/

I am so getting that when I get home.

[thevortex]

there are a few aspects he is still working on(or was last night anyways, they may have been finalized by now) but overall this holds good promise for a future without bukkits xD

[andrewdonshik]

Pretty much. As of now, I refuse to use bukkit, apart from the current tekkit release.

[disconsented]

Thinking about it, this could actually be a positive change. With forge we may be able to do more than if we continued to use bukkit. Hell we might even get to the point where mods are automaticly downloaded and synced with a server.

[bwillb]

Between the bukkit people that now work at Mojang, and the talented people working on Forge, surely we can just cut the current bukkit remains out of the equation, yes? I mean, a lot of the bukkit plugins people love weren't even originally created for bukkit, right?

[poryy]

Thinking about it, this could actually be a positive change. With forge we may be able to do more than if we continued to use bukkit. Hell we might even get to the point where mods are automaticly downloaded and synced with a server.

Or the community singularity. That is when the community can mod minecraft through a mod maker put out by mojang and automatically install mods on their server that autoinstall on other peoples .minecrafts when they join.