I miss Industrial Craft...

[UnholyD]

First off: I don't care if you flame me or not, I have a few things I'd like to put out there. Mainly just a few of my opinions and some (insightful?) commentary from my perspective.

I personally like Industrial Craft. Always have. It was one of the few Core mods to the original Technic series which helped evolve it into what it is today. I like having wires running around and the overall simplicity of the entire mod. It didn't add too many new resources (Tin and Copper). It was based around working with itself and Vanilla to give you the Technical Shizzle Wizzle you all wanted but knew you'd never get with Vanilla. It has Solar Power which you almost never see in the other mods. It was relatively simple to set up and use and didn't feel too OP until you got to the point where you were digging massive holes and turning everything into Scrap to get UU. It adds farms and brewing which is something to be said over Vanilla farming. Nuclear Power is just plain cool in my opinion. Maceration was simple and didn't require much to get it started initially and was always a practical option. And to top everything off, you can add upgrades to, like, EVERYTHING. Overclockers as far as the eye could see, Battery upgrades, and Transformers.

As far as other mods go, they are just trying to pick up the slack that IC on it's own managed to keep for as long as anyone can remember. Modular Power Suits are quite nifty indeed but they just don't have the same feel, especially considering the massive power costs they have. Forestry, in general, the original creator didn't want any of Forestry in the Technic bundle so badly that malicious code was inserted leading to the creator to choose between being a sniveling little baby about a mod bundle (that was awesome) adding in their creation against their consent and blow it all up knowing that people would hate them for it or just give in and at least try to take the high road. And yet Forestry has become staple in Tekkit where once IC used to be. Buildcraft is almost completely standard in all Tekkit stuff which is not a bad thing but in my opinion looks rather ridiculous when you see a million engines chugging away to power things that require MJ. Things that do the exact same things that IC has done for the longest time already. And when you look at a lot of things, they are based around the whole "Universal Electricity" dynamic and become rather rigid. Voltz pack stuff is fun every so often, but it gets incredibly frustrating when you have to get everything just so to get it to function. No to mention all of the tedium to make everything in the first place. IC did just about everything that makes Voltz work without as much of said tedium and has been a staple for Tekkit since before UE was a thought in Voltz's creator's minds. Yet every update seems to be much more UE inclusive and, in my opinion, looks like you'll be seeing Voltz become Tekkit standard which leads me to mixed feelings ranging between dread, fury, and extreme apathy. With IC being there, this would never have crossed my mind as even a remote possibility.

Yes it has bugs, yes it's a bit slow to update, yes it's a bit OP when you get everything up and running, and yes a lot of other mods are doing the exact same thing that it does. But here's the kicker, IC did it first and, at least in my opinion, did it better for the longest time. I'm not saying it's perfect, in fact, if you read any of what I just said, I'm saying far from it. But, I am saying that to say anything else is better and that IC can be easily replaced is saying that every single mod you use in Tekkit is the exact same way. Think about it. Buildcraft to Industrial Craft to Mekanism to Redpower to Equivalent Exchange, they all have their pros and cons.

Maybe I'm nostalgic, maybe I'm a fool, maybe I can't let it go. But, Speed, Utility, Simplicity, and Fun. These, and more, are how I remember IC and IC2. And to everyone that says it is complete and utter crap by comparison to every other mod in Tekkit today is even more a fool than I and has probably never truly appreciated any mod for what it has done for them. If it gets updated, I'll be happy again and can hold my head high. If it doesn't, then I hope more modders out there get their asses in gear and give me what I'll surely be missing since without IC there is much in the way of content that needs to be replaced (namely solar and nuclear power and brewing, my GOD the brewing).

So in short, R.I.P. Industrial Craft: Sleep Well Sweet Prince For We Barely Knew Ye.

[Euphoreich]

Wow wall of text. Tekkit classic and tekkit Lite are still available to play. Industrial craft has not been updated for 6 months, and is effectively dead. Feel free to go update the mod to work with 1.5.2 yourself (I think it's on 1.4.5 right now.)

[Viktor_Berg]

First off, Forestry is not in Tekkit by any stretch of imagination. And also, what Sengir did was retarded, not "awesome".

Second, IC2 was a very fine pioneer mod. It was the first mod I ever played with, back in like 2009 or 2010, I forget. Yeah, I've played it since early beta versions of IC1. And yet - yet it was outgrown. It paved the way for the modding community, but is now lagging behind, both feature-wise and release-wise. Alblaka hasn't released an official update in over half a year. Most of the mod's features have been replaced and/or outclassed by other mods. The mod's power system is clunky and unwieldy. The items and tools are fine but, again, outclassed by other mods nowadays.

The only part really unique to IC2 right now is nuclear power. And yet there is a Big Reactors mod in the works, planning on adding multiblock generators of all kinds, including fission and fusion. KingLemming, the author of Thermal Expansion, is working on a BALANCED version of solar power, as well as machine upgrades. IC2 farming wasn't very useful at all, and unlike Forestry's bee breeding, you couldn't industrialize it to the point where it would be a viable method of getting any reasonable number of resources.

And pardon me, but Quantum Suits were incredibly unbalanced. Pretty easy to get, and provide complete invulnerability to the user as long as the chestplate is equipped.

Let it go.

[UnholyD]

Scratch all that. Turns out the creator of IC is just burning out a bit and development's moving at a snail's pace due to it. Hopefully it's in before 1.6 hits and can be reintroduced to Tekkit. Yay!

[Shoe]

I really liked IC2 and I do miss it. I agree that while other mods might replicate the functionality there still seems to be something lacking, even though IC2 wasn't perfect. However, I also totally agree with the decision to remove it: other updated mods have awesome content and as much as I miss IC2 it is better to have a bunch of stuff which is updating.

In saying that:

Hopefully it's in before 1.6 hits and can be reintroduced to Tekkit. Yay!

Part of me isn't sure about this. Even if IC2 updated tomorrow, can we be sure the author will keep it that way long-term? They've gone stale once, they could easily do it again in the short to mid-term and leave us in exactly the same lurch.

[Smargoos]

First off, Forestry is not in Tekkit by any stretch of imagination. And also, what Sengir did was retarded, not "awesome".

The only part really unique to IC2 right now is nuclear power. And yet there is a Big Reactors mod in the works, planning on adding multiblock generators of all kinds, including fission and fusion. KingLemming, the author of Thermal Expansion, is working on a BALANCED version of solar power, as well as machine upgrades. IC2 farming wasn't very useful at all, and unlike Forestry's bee breeding, you couldn't industrialize it to the point where it would be a viable method of getting any reasonable number of resources.

I got 2 questions

First who's Sengir and what he did?

Second when is this big reactors coming and when is thermal going to get solar?

[UnholyD]

First off, Forestry is not in Tekkit by any stretch of imagination. And also, what Sengir did was retarded, not "awesome".

Second, IC2 was a very fine pioneer mod. It was the first mod I ever played with, back in like 2009 or 2010, I forget. Yeah, I've played it since early beta versions of IC1. And yet - yet it was outgrown. It paved the way for the modding community, but is now lagging behind, both feature-wise and release-wise. Alblaka hasn't released an official update in over half a year. Most of the mod's features have been replaced and/or outclassed by other mods. The mod's power system is clunky and unwieldy. The items and tools are fine but, again, outclassed by other mods nowadays.

The only part really unique to IC2 right now is nuclear power. And yet there is a Big Reactors mod in the works, planning on adding multiblock generators of all kinds, including fission and fusion. KingLemming, the author of Thermal Expansion, is working on a BALANCED version of solar power, as well as machine upgrades. IC2 farming wasn't very useful at all, and unlike Forestry's bee breeding, you couldn't industrialize it to the point where it would be a viable method of getting any reasonable number of resources.

And pardon me, but Quantum Suits were incredibly unbalanced. Pretty easy to get, and provide complete invulnerability to the user as long as the chestplate is equipped.

Let it go.

The "awesome" was in relevance to the Tekkit modpack (sorry for the confusion) not for the Forestry fiasco.

IC2 Farming was quite useful if you weren't just looking to automate everything for "Big Returns". Which is apparently all anyone cares about anymore (Big Dig anyone?).

And, again, I didn't say that IC (or anything in it) was perfect and balanced, I just said that Modular Powersuits take WAY to many resources to make USEABLE and even more to FUNCTION and an ungodly amount more just to POWER. I don't like to have to mine out wide swaths of area (or sit for eternity automating the process of resource gathering) just to make what can effectively be referred to as a "novelty item" and even more to make "uber haxor armour" just so it powers down and becomes the former again in 5 minutes. At least Quantum armor was useable (as armor) as soon as you powered it. And I don't know about you, but a Powersuit can be just as effectively OP if you know what you're doing.

Lastly, I won't let it go because, if you read my wall of text you'd know, that it is one of my favorite mods. It'd be a shame if something were to happen to it (see what I did there?).

[Lostonexxx]

I loved ic2 as well, but without a massive overhaul, not just updating, I wouldnt want to see it dirty the streamlined efficiency of newer mods.

[UnholyD]

I really liked IC2 and I do miss it. I agree that while other mods might replicate the functionality there still seems to be something lacking, even though IC2 wasn't perfect. However, I also totally agree with the decision to remove it: other updated mods have awesome content and as much as I miss IC2 it is better to have a bunch of stuff which is updating.

In saying that:

Part of me isn't sure about this. Even if IC2 updated tomorrow, can we be sure the author will keep it that way long-term? They've gone stale once, they could easily do it again in the short to mid-term and leave us in exactly the same lurch.

Yeah, although you're probably right, we can always have hope for the future.

[Euphoreich]

The "awesome" was in relevance to the Tekkit modpack (sorry for the confusion) not for the Forestry fiasco.

IC2 Farming was quite useful if you weren't just looking to automate everything for "Big Returns". Which is apparently all anyone cares about anymore (Big Dig anyone?).

And, again, I didn't say that IC (or anything in it) was perfect and balanced, I just said that Modular Powersuits take WAY to many resources to make USEABLE and even more to FUNCTION and an ungodly amount more just to POWER. I don't like to have to mine out wide swaths of area (or sit for eternity automating the process of resource gathering) just to make what can effectively be referred to as a "novelty item" and even more to make "uber haxor armour" just so it powers down and becomes the former again in 5 minutes. At least Quantum armor was useable (as armor) as soon as you powered it. And I don't know about you, but a Powersuit can be just as effectively OP if you know what you're doing.

Lastly, I won't let it go because, if you read my wall of text you'd know, that it is one of my favorite mods. It'd be a shame if something were to happen to it (see what I did there?).

Something did happen to it. Development has completely ceased, where are you getting this information that they are still working on it?

[Shoe]

I got 2 questions

First who's Sengir and what he did?

Second when is this big reactors coming and when is thermal going to get solar?

I can't answer the other questions, but the BigReactors page currently has it at playtest version 0.0.2, so probably a while.

[UnholyD]

I got 2 questions

First who's Sengir and what he did?

Second when is this big reactors coming and when is thermal going to get solar?

One question: Are you a troll and/or not paying attention?

Sengir is the guy who created the Forestry mod and decided, in a very bad move on his part, that he'd put a malicious line of text into the code to destroy, correction, CATOSTROFICALLY DESTROY any placed block from his mod if you were playing through the Technic Launcher. Immediately following, he and his mod got thrown out until everyone demanded that Forestry get let back in (he took quite a hit to his donation base and got flamed BADLY because of it). Peace talks convened, he promised not to do it again, and things have been "fine" since.

No one knows. It's in development and could be awhile.

[UnholyD]

Something did happen to it. Development has completely ceased, where are you getting this information that they are still working on it?

It hasn't ceased completely, it has however been horrendously slug-like.

I checked the official forums and found a link directing me to the dev build log and as of a few days ago they managed to complete a few bug fixes to get it to function in 1.5.x. Can't remember the link or the thread though. Sorry...

[UnholyD]

I loved ic2 as well, but without a massive overhaul, not just updating, I wouldnt want to see it dirty the streamlined efficiency of newer mods.

I don't know exactly how to reply to this one...

Newer mods haven't exactly been streamlined or efficient (take Galacticraft for example 2 steps forward 3 steps back). And if you're just looking for new content, you're looking in the wrong place. Everything gets stale after a few years. Following that, an overhaul would be nice, but an update would be satisfactory (at least for a while).

[Viktor_Berg]

The "awesome" was in relevance to the Tekkit modpack (sorry for the confusion) not for the Forestry fiasco.

IC2 Farming was quite useful if you weren't just looking to automate everything for "Big Returns". Which is apparently all anyone cares about anymore (Big Dig anyone?).

And, again, I didn't say that IC (or anything in it) was perfect and balanced, I just said that Modular Powersuits take WAY to many resources to make USEABLE and even more to FUNCTION and an ungodly amount more just to POWER. I don't like to have to mine out wide swaths of area (or sit for eternity automating the process of resource gathering) just to make what can effectively be referred to as a "novelty item" and even more to make "uber haxor armour" just so it powers down and becomes the former again in 5 minutes. At least Quantum armor was useable (as armor) as soon as you powered it. And I don't know about you, but a Powersuit can be just as effectively OP if you know what you're doing.

Lastly, I won't let it go because, if you read my wall of text you'd know, that it is one of my favorite mods. It'd be a shame if something were to happen to it (see what I did there?).

Modular Powersuits are pretty well-balanced, I have no idea what you are talking about. While some of the parts are pretty expensive (ion thrusters and field emitters), it is still very useable even without those upgrades. And no, it is not as heavy on resources as you imply it to be, I get an MPS to my desirable condition about as fast as I did with quantum suit in IC2. Finally, the question of energy. Kinetic, thermal and solar generators are there for a reason. Many people say that the kinetic generates too much heat to be useful, but I disagree. Ever since I crafted my MPS, I did not have to recharge it once, and the overheat problem only appears when I travel more than 300-400 blocks in a few seconds using max power jetpack and/or glider (which is much, much faster than IC2 quantum armor sprinting, because you slow down to walk speed if you jump in quantum, while propelling yourself 200 blocks if you jump in MPS).

In general, the MPS has many more functions, both essential and handy. Nightvision, water breathing, parachute/glider, flight control, step assist, walk speed increase without having to sprint, hell, there's even invisibility. And then we have the Power Gauntlet, which is essentially every single tool combined into one, plus a few really powerful and fun to use weapons. I rocketjump with my Railgun, did you know you could do that?

[UnholyD]

I do apologize for the wall of text earlier. It's just impossible to express one's views in a way that is both comprehensive and condensed while at the same time not being engulfed in a flame war. I could have made a hundred smaller posts but that incites more flaming and isn't as comprehensive.

[Dewfire]

Spoiled by nightvision now.... Once you get 1 elite battery and get a 5m charge, you dont worry about suit power for days.

[UnholyD]

Modular Powersuits are pretty well-balanced, I have no idea what you are talking about. While some of the parts are pretty expensive (ion thrusters and field emitters), it is still very useable even without those upgrades. And no, it is not as heavy on resources as you imply it to be, I get an MPS to my desirable condition about as fast as I did with quantum suit in IC2. Finally, the question of energy. Kinetic, thermal and solar generators are there for a reason. Many people say that the kinetic generates too much heat to be useful, but I disagree. Ever since I crafted my MPS, I did not have to recharge it once, and the overheat problem only appears when I travel more than 300-400 blocks in a few seconds using max power jetpack and/or glider (which is much, much faster than IC2 quantum armor sprinting, because you slow down to walk speed if you jump in quantum, while propelling yourself 200 blocks if you jump in MPS).

In general, the MPS has many more functions, both essential and handy. Nightvision, water breathing, parachute/glider, flight control, step assist, walk speed increase without having to sprint, hell, there's even invisibility. And then we have the Power Gauntlet, which is essentially every single tool combined into one, plus a few really powerful and fun to use weapons. I rocketjump with my Railgun, did you know you could do that?

You just got finished saying it was balanced and then immediately started saying how it's even more OP. Which is it?

Handy, yes. Essential, no. Nightvision potions aren't hard to make and with a decent farming setup, just as good. Who's underwater enough to need Water Breathing? Couple dirt and a torch, problem solved. Parachutes and gliders become obsolete in 10 minutes. Flight Control is clunky, though is good since EE3 is still rather bullshit by comparison to EE2. Is jumping one block so difficult anymore? You have food, EAT IT. And invisibility is just as easy as Nightvision. Just requires additional Sugercane Farms and a Spider Mob Grinder.

Paxels anyone? Or, what's the name of the thing in the tools mod? You know, the axe, shovel, hoe thing?

And lastly, you rocket jump with the Railgun when you could just use your Jetpack after a full charge jump? Splitting hairs, yes, and we are talking about what options are available to people to use here, but come on. Really?

[UnholyD]

I guess I forgot to mention the redundancy issues that arose from the fact that IC dropped off the map. It's like every mod out there wants to be as comprehensive as IC was and most of them get dropped into Tekkit at the same time. Though that's also like saying, "How many Wrenches do we NEED?" when that got simplified through another mod.

I also forgot to state that Forestry may not be full tilt in Tekkit but you can still feel it's presence.

[Enzer]

I also forgot to state that Forestry may not be full tilt in Tekkit but you can still feel it's presence.

I have no fucking clue what you are going on about.

[Viktor_Berg]

You just got finished saying it was balanced and then immediately started saying how it's even more OP. Which is it?

Handy, yes. Essential, no. Nightvision potions aren't hard to make and with a decent farming setup, just as good. Who's underwater enough to need Water Breathing? Couple dirt and a torch, problem solved. Parachutes and gliders become obsolete in 10 minutes. Flight Control is clunky, though is good since EE3 is still rather bullshit by comparison to EE2. Is jumping one block so difficult anymore? You have food, EAT IT. And invisibility is just as easy as Nightvision. Just requires additional Sugercane Farms and a Spider Mob Grinder.

Paxels anyone? Or, what's the name of the thing in the tools mod? You know, the axe, shovel, hoe thing?

And lastly, you rocket jump with the Railgun when you could just use your Jetpack after a full charge jump? Splitting hairs, yes, and we are talking about what options are available to people to use here, but come on. Really?

It's not entirely balanced yet. The mod is still very heavily in development, and balance changes all the time. However, all those handy but non-essential things are what makes the beauty of it. MPS is not just armor. It's also a tool of CONVENIENCE. Sure, jumping 1 block high slopes is not hard, but it's inconvenient, especially when travelling long distances. Sure, you can make potions of nightvision, but how many of them will you need for an average duration of a world? Parachutes and gliders do not become obsolete, they conserve your suit's energy, and jetpack is a much more lategame module. Plus they provide an additional level of aerial control.

Oh yes, paxels, they exist, yes. But what makes you say it makes the power tool obsolete? If anything, it's the other way around - why would you want to use a finite durability relatively slow tool that only replaces 3 of your tools, instead of a rechargeable, very fast multitool that combines those 3 tools as well as all the other vanilla tools (except the fishing rod), as well as adds melee and ranged weapons?

In any case, you deconstruct the MPS so thoroughly, but ultimately, WHAT makes the quantum alternative any better? All it is, is armor that makes you invincible, makes you breathe underwater and improves your sprint/jump. What exactly can it do that MPS can't (other than the invincibility)?

[dirtyword]

Is there anything on par with the destruction catalyst still in the mod?

[Shoe]

Is there anything on par with the destruction catalyst still in the mod?

Unfortunately not, but the Destruction Catalyst was Equivalent Exchange 2. Tekkit has EE 3 which is still under heavy development, and in the MinecraftForum thread the author says that Dark Matter tools will make a comeback at some point and that they'll have the equivalent function.

[UnholyD]

It's not entirely balanced yet. The mod is still very heavily in development, and balance changes all the time. However, all those handy but non-essential things are what makes the beauty of it. MPS is not just armor. It's also a tool of CONVENIENCE. Sure, jumping 1 block high slopes is not hard, but it's inconvenient, especially when travelling long distances. Sure, you can make potions of nightvision, but how many of them will you need for an average duration of a world? Parachutes and gliders do not become obsolete, they conserve your suit's energy, and jetpack is a much more lategame module. Plus they provide an additional level of aerial control.

Oh yes, paxels, they exist, yes. But what makes you say it makes the power tool obsolete? If anything, it's the other way around - why would you want to use a finite durability relatively slow tool that only replaces 3 of your tools, instead of a rechargeable, very fast multitool that combines those 3 tools as well as all the other vanilla tools (except the fishing rod), as well as adds melee and ranged weapons?

In any case, you deconstruct the MPS so thoroughly, but ultimately, WHAT makes the quantum alternative any better? All it is, is armor that makes you invincible, makes you breathe underwater and improves your sprint/jump. What exactly can it do that MPS can't (other than the invincibility)?

I'm not saying QA does what MPS can't, I'm saying it's less OP.

With the Power Tool, I have a tool that can do everything without any real downside. EVER. If that's not the very definition of OP, I apparently have been misusing the term all this time.

I never said Paxels made the Power Tool obsolete. Never even insinuated it. I said they were almost as good and much less OP.

How much inventory space do you need to save after all? Those few slots are SO important apparently. PT saves, let's see, 1 for Torches, 1 for Bow/Ranged Weapon, 2 (1 each for the shovel and pick since who walks around always with an Axe and a Hoe), and 1 for a Crafting Table. Paxel saves 1 for either pick or shovel and you get a free axe. I'm so butt hurt over those 4 slots to fill with nothing as mining can easily be automated by that point.

As far as the Armor itself goes, if jumping one high blocks is so "inconvenient" then having to dig your first mine and come back with resources must be "excruciating". The Flight Control makes Gliding and Parachutes obsolete for "aerial control" once you get it. How much energy did you say you were saving by using the Glide Module? Nothing that a Solar Panel can't fix. Also, how much overland travel are you doing that requires you jumping off cliffs or flying up high enough to use the glider effectively? Not a lot hopefully otherwise you're wasting more energy getting up there than you're saving by floating.

You wanted to argue so badly that QA Invulnerability is so OP and yet cannot see what lies right before your very eyes in the MPS. By one-for-one comparison, we've got the same amount of effort and resources for the QA to give you a few bonuses which are (relatively) balanced vs. the MPS which gives you that and more, much, much, MUCH MORE, so much more that your head hurts thinking about it and so many balancing issues to make it laughable at best and infuriating at worst.

[Euphoreich]

EE3 is still rather bullshit by comparison to EE2

Ah, so you are one of those people.