Curse and FTB partner

[KakerMix]

Curse absolutely owns the domains, that was the requirement for the deal. The only things of value now belong to Curse, the domains, web pages and forums. All that traffic will now be Curse's traffic. People might argue that "Feed The Beast" or "Forge" as names don't belong to Curse, but those things also don't have any value.

We don't know what non-compete clauses were signed (if any) either.

[V00doocat]

We don't know what non-compete clauses were signed (if any) either.

The mantra on Slows live stream a few days ago was that such things are yet to be worked out.

On the one hand the live stream and all the anouncements are FTB/Forge are in partnership with Curse.

Then in the same breath such huge deal breaking details like non competition are things that have yet to talked about.

It's hard to work out if anyone has signed on the dotted line yet or not. If not, then breaking the news before the deal has been done is insane. If the signatures are on the dotted line then I find it hard to believe that such huge details like non competition are still up for discussion.

[Bluehorazon]

Curse absolutely owns the domains, that was the requirement for the deal. The only things of value now belong to Curse, the domains, web pages and forums. All that traffic will now be Curse's traffic. People might argue that "Feed The Beast" or "Forge" as names don't belong to Curse, but those things also don't have any value.

We don't know what non-compete clauses were signed (if any) either.

The domains stay with FTB if I understood slow correctly. All the stuff will move to the curse-sites but they will keep their domain (which however is unused in that case). What curse get is basically the popularity of FTB and it's user. However in difference to a single person or a name you can't buy the favor of the masses that easy. Also I disagree that the name isn't important. If any place would sell a burger and pommes with the quality macdonalds offers they wouldn't attract many people... mainly because they are not naming themself macdonalds.

Also they didn't buy the people on the launcher. Mindcrack and Direwolf are large contributors to FTBs success, similar as the Yogscast provided tekkit with popularity. Curse has no deals with these persons. Also they don't have any power over forge. They simply move the downloads to curse, which is actually good, since Lex complained often that it costs them too much to afford infrastructure. Also forge continues to be an independent thing, which again is obvious, since they only hire lex as some kind of councelor (propably to help them make their client). I doubt that slow is in any way a smart business-person. But it is quite obvious that he has people at his site who are. And in this case the advantage is on his side. I doubt that curse knows a lot of the MC-Modding scene so it is more likely for them to make wrong decisions than it is for FTB.

if they put out a product that sucks, FTB is out a launcher, the trust of their forgecraft buddies, the respect of the community, and a large number of users.

That's propably true to a certain degree. I doubt that they lose the trust of the forgecrafters etc. Actually cpw mentioned that there was talk about this, so they propably knew it already. And although I agree that they will lose respect they actually will also gain some of it back if they have the balls to really abandon curse. Because that is a move that isn't easy, exspecially on a personal level and would clearly be only aimed at providing the community with a better service. It wouldn't help any of the FTB-people personally.

[Bluehorazon]

The mantra on Slows live stream a few days ago was that such things are yet to be worked out.

On the one hand the live stream and all the anouncements are FTB/Forge are in partnership with Curse.

Then in the same breath such huge deal breaking details like non competition are things that have yet to talked about.

It's hard to work out if anyone has signed on the dotted line yet or not. If not, then breaking the news before the deal has been done is insane. If the signatures are on the dotted line then I find it hard to believe that such huge details like non competition are still up for discussion.

They are propably discussed. But they are propably not allowed to share all details with the community. Also non-competition is a bit tricky in this case, since the deal would only affect the current FTB-business and slow personally. Also they said that they finished negotiations, but they are still very carefully what is actually written in the contracts.

[freakachu]

some bullshit

listen dude, have you read what you're typing? you think kicking their users in the nuts by going with curse and putting out something that sucks can magically be erased by just splitting from curse? you think everything will just go back to the way it was? I would like some of what you're smoking because that is some primo shit. you can't fuck up that hard, turn around and say "we're sorry", and then expect everyone to just forget about it like it was a bad dream.

secondly, you have 0 idea what's in that contract. the hilarity of trying to correct probably the only person who has credible info outside of slow himself about the kind of deal curse is/was gunning for about what was in the deal is off the chart. let me lay something on you that you will ignore: slowpoke101 is doing damage control, and as such will not speak the whole truth on the matter. he's been VERY specific about retaining the "name", which means that's probably all he kept. in fact that's about the only thing he's been specific about in regards to this whole deal.

thirdly, the "ftb brand" as it were is not comparable to something like McDonalds. the ftb brand is barely recognized and if this deal goes south will be dragged through the mud, in fact it's already BEING dragged through the mud all over the internet. were they to be forced to separate from curse, they would forever be hobbled by the stigma of their failure. they'd be better off changing their brand at that point than trying to PR and doublespeak their way back into the community's good graces once again. this is human nature and while a select few have recovered from such things, far more never do. Shia Labeouf tried to appologize and it just made it worse, for instance. that's just a recent example, but history is positively littered with people who fucked up just one time and crashed hard because of it.

lastly, I say they would lose the trust of their buddies because while it's clear the forgecraft types knew about this ahead of time, they are in favor of the utopian vision that has been sold to them. what they support is the ideal, the grand design of a modding utopia that curse convinced slow would be created. in turn, slow convinced them as well. when his promises fall flat and his words hollow, only the ones too proud to accept their mistake will remain with him, and they will be furious privately. the problem you are having is that you are too idealistic. you want to believe in the impossible dream and think that if you just believe it hard enough, it will become reality. you ignore the risks, dismiss the downsides and blind yourself to the problems because you want so badly to believe in this glorious future. remember the saying "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is"? it applies here.

[Portablejim]

I am going to write some documentation for a mod I am making. Should I put it on CurseForge where both the mod download and the issue tracker is, or should I put it on github where the source is?

[disconsented]

I am going to write some documentation for a mod I am making. Should I put it on CurseForge where both the mod download and the issue tracker is, or should I put it on github where the source is?

Why not both?

[Portablejim]

Why not both?

Consistency, extra effort.

[Lothos]

I have one question for the rose colored glasses wearing folks. If "I" were an FTB developer and not slowpoke, why would i work on a launcher/repository for another company i was already signed not to work/transfer to once complete?

[freakachu]

I am going to write some documentation for a mod I am making. Should I put it on CurseForge where both the mod download and the issue tracker is, or should I put it on github where the source is?

just put it on github and link to it on curseforge.

[slowpoke101]

The details of the contract are obviously ones I cannot talk about. I think it is fair and ok to say however that ALL FTB asset ownership remains with FTB. That is the websites, the domains the artwork everything. Our deal is to give curse the rights to distribute the FTB mod packs and to host the FTB forums. Development on the current launcher will continue till such time as I feel that a Curse client is in a position to distribute the packs. The same with the forums, they remain where they are until I am happy with the replacement. As to other members of the team coming, pretty much every main member of the core team was informed about all this before hand. However given commitments they had in real life, they were not able to make commitments to Forge, but were all willing and preferred to stay on with FTB as volunteers. With this in mind its important to note that this is a partnership, FTB is not merging in with Curse, we are working with them as partners. The FTB staff will continue to work on FTB projects elusively, I will be working on both FTB projects and Curse projects. That includes helping Curse prepare a client that is a suitable replacement for our own.

As a final note, of course FTB was going to have people upset with them over this. I knew that from day one. So did the entire FTB team and so did the group of mod developers that were also involved in this from the beginning. I understand completely that our reputation has and will continue to take a hit. We all felt that the risk was worth the reward. There are a lot of people with negative comments, mainly to be honest regarding Curse. I choose, however to approach this deal optimistically, until such time as that is proved to be unwarranted.

[slowpoke101]

I have one question for the rose colored glasses wearing folks. If "I" were an FTB developer and not slowpoke, why would i work on a launcher/repository for another company i was already signed not to work/transfer to once complete?

No one from FTB is being asked to work on a Curse product.

[disconsented]

Slowpoke101, as an end user what does this mean for me? What real advantage am I getting out of this?

[Lothos]

I feel the need to point out a semantics clarification. This deal is NOT a partnership of any kind. A partnership would imply all parties involved are fully working together on the project equally. As already stated by Slow that only he and Lex are on this as advisors and that Curse's team is doing the actual work. The mod developers may be in agreement with the deal, but are merely backseat passengers like the end users are in this arrangement.

[freakachu]

I understand completely that our reputation has and will continue to take a hit. We all felt that the risk was worth the reward. There are a lot of people with negative comments, mainly to be honest regarding Curse. I choose, however to approach this deal optimistically, until such time as that is proved to be unwarranted.

P.T. Barnum would love you. also, use the edit button instead of multiposting, please.

[Bluehorazon]

I feel the need to point out a semantics clarification. This deal is NOT a partnership of any kind. A partnership would imply all parties involved are fully working together on the project equally. As already stated by Slow that only he and Lex are on this as advisors and that Curse's team is doing the actual work. The mod developers may be in agreement with the deal, but are merely backseat passengers like the end users are in this arrangement.

Curse only makes the launcher. The Wiki-Team, the Mod-Pack-Team and the people making the maps still work on the same things. The only thing that went elsewhere is the forum, which will still be moderated by the FTB-people and the development of the launcher. And no a partnership never means to fully work together... when a game-developer partners with Microsoft to release a game for XBox the partnership is very limited. It is still a partnership with Microsoft. The partnership between curse and ftb is mainly about giving curse the visitors from ftb, but offering hosting of mods, forge and developing a launcher.

he's been VERY specific about retaining the "name", which means that's probably all he kept. in fact that's about the only thing he's been specific about in regards to this whole deal.

There isn't much he could have sold. He can't sell all the modpacks. Like Mindcrack... they are not his to sell. I'm not sure what he should give away, since you need to own it in the first place. And development of the launcher and the forum isn't something that can't be recovered.

this is human nature and while a select few have recovered from such things, far more never do.

Well the point is. When they cancel that partnership most of the complains right now are totally invalid. After cancelling that deal it is obvious that the deal wasn't about money but actually improving the services. Also you shouldn't underestimate that FTB doesn't only have "business" relationsships with a lot of the modders, they are actually very close personally. I doubt that this personal relationship would be damaged by this, if at all it actually helps rising again. It is the really great benefit FTB has and something you simply can't sell to curse.

And although I'm also sceptical about curse and their intention right now nothing happened for me to be able to judge it. I haven't seen the new FTB-Forums on the curse site, I haven't seen their new launcher. The only way I can judge them is based on the reputation they have... and honestly there once was a time were Apple had a good reputation...

[KakerMix]

We're still in the spin-cycle phase I see.

[KakerMix]

What real advantage am I getting out of this?

Depends on if you have Curse Premium™ or not :v:

[Blacktooth]

Well the point is. When they cancel that partnership most of the complains right now are totally invalid.

I think you may be missing something here. Right now, people are complaining about what could happen. Later, there could be complaints about what is happening. Those two groups of complaints will turn into complaints about what has happened. All those complaints will stick except for the most loyal and rabid fans. They will linger and not be forgotten.

After cancelling that deal it is obvious that the deal wasn't about money but actually improving the services.

It most certainly is about money. FTB would not have become a business right before this deal, and Curse would not have even entertained the idea otherwise. No amount of spin can change that. ad.fly, ad clicks, youtube and streaming views - Modding's seedy underbelly. The kids don't care, but the rest of us know where the drama really comes from.

As far as improving services, everyone here can see the potential. No one has stated otherwise. The argument is over conflicts of interest. It can work, but eventually all parties (FTB, Curse, the modders, and the end users) are going to have to make concessions outside of the deal itself as we know it. Most think, and I feel rightly so, that Curse will be unwilling to make those concessions which will put a great deal more pressure on the other parties and most likely leave them disenfranchised.

And once again, I would like to point out that Mojang can bring this all crashing down at any point.

Also you shouldn't underestimate that FTB doesn't only have "business" relationsships with a lot of the modders, they are actually very close personally. I doubt that this personal relationship would be damaged by this, if at all it actually helps rising again. It is the really great benefit FTB has and something you simply can't sell to curse.

Personal relationships aren't an issue here. You don't need contracts for those. You don't even need a business or to grow it.

[Bluehorazon]

I think you may be missing something here. Right now, people are complaining about what could happen. Later, there could be complaints about what is happening. Those two groups of complaints will turn into complaints about what has happened. All those complaints will stick except for the most loyal and rabid fans. They will linger and not be forgotten.

It most certainly is about money. FTB would not have become a business right before this deal, and Curse would not have even entertained the idea otherwise. No amount of spin can change that. ad.fly, ad clicks, youtube and streaming views - Modding's seedy underbelly. The kids don't care, but the rest of us know where the drama really comes from.

The complaints what could happen and the complaints about what happened would be obviously the same. But it is very clear that the problem lies within how curse used the potential. You can blame FTB for being too naive and thrustworthy towards curse. However if they cancel the partnership you can't blame them for going after the money, since there are no financial benefits. And people actually can forgive doing stupid things. The important thing would be that FTB doesn't lose the moral highground if they present it right and together with other influential people in the modding-scene. Of course it would create a lot of damage, there is no way of denying it. But honestly it would be the best option if curse turns to act in the way a lot of people, me including, are afraid of.

As far as improving services, everyone here can see the potential. No one has stated otherwise. The argument is over conflicts of interest. It can work, but eventually all parties (FTB, Curse, the modders, and the end users) are going to have to make concessions outside of the deal itself as we know it. Most think, and I feel rightly so, that Curse will be unwilling to make those concessions which will put a great deal more pressure on the other parties and most likely leave them disenfranchised.

And once again, I would like to point out that Mojang can bring this all crashing down at any point.

I agree. Of course. But than again they agreed to some points and the other parties have some expectations towards what curse has to deliver. If they fail who would blame them for turning their back on curse? Also I'm not sure if Mojang has any interest about bringing it down. The problem here is only forge. They can't forbid monitizing mods, because mods don't consist of any of mojangs code. However making money of forge is a nogo. However Mojangs seems to be not that strict since forge required a lot of infrastructure to be delivered to the end-user which costs money. I'm unsure but don't expect them to do anything against curse when they make money with forge.

Personal relationships aren't an issue here. You don't need contracts for those. You don't even need a business or to grow it.

They are of course. Although Curse is the big-player in this partnership they utterly lack connections to modders in the way FTB has them. And even though they are partners now, the connections stay with FTB and the people there. If they would not hold up the expections and the partnership breaks they would not only lose their partner, which isn't something they are afraid of, but it is also highly likely that they would lose support of several major modders... not to mention forge (although those are two seperate contracts, but I doubt that they would allow curse to play them out against each other.

[Neowulf]

Depends on if you have Curse Premium™ or not

That will be interesting.

"Do you have curse premium?" will be a first question asked when troubleshooting as their support forums get filled with people asking why FTB <whatever> pack takes 7 hours to download.

I wonder how long before the announcement comes: "We've heard your complaints about download times and have taken action to correct it, as you have requested. The FTB ultimate pack will now have an astounding 10 mods, twice what the other packs feature! You're welcome."

[bwillb]

That will be interesting.

"Do you have curse premium?" will be a first question asked when troubleshooting as their support forums get filled with people asking why FTB <whatever> pack takes 7 hours to download.

I wonder how long before the announcement comes: "We've heard your complaints about download times and have taken action to correct it, as you have requested. The FTB ultimate pack will now have an astounding 10 mods, twice what the other packs feature! You're welcome."

Luckily minecraft mod files are small enough that download times shouldn't be too much of an issue, assuming they let you connect to a server instead of waiting in a queue...

[Chefsbrian]

Luckily minecraft mod files are small enough that download times shouldn't be too much of an issue, assuming they let you connect to a server instead of waiting in a queue...

Assumptions are a huge fallacy in the face of the desire for profits. If curse thinks they can convince people a twenty minute wait to download all your mods is normal for the modded scene, I wouldn't think twice about them trying. Why would they want to offer a very high quality free service, when a lower quality one both drives more ad views as the pages serve up more ads as things load, and drives people to their premium service, where it makes sense to actually use good connections.

Thats not on FTB hands to be honest though, thats just Curse's business model. Although I suppose you could say its now FTB's business model as well now.

[theskull251]

@GenPage I dont blame Technic, Like I said I dont like it particularly like the way that its built because it allows other people to bypass permissions. But to blame technic is kind of like blaming Pirates Bay for indexing p2p files. But I dont think my approval was ever really needed was it. I was just providing as an example that neither system is perfect.

Your second question is indeed a good one. We literally havent even started on this yet and most certainly do not have all the answers to all the questions at this time, just a broad outline of an idea.

1. Mods released are in the public domain. If they never wanted it in public packs then they should have never released it.

2. Their copyrights/licenses are illegitimate, and unenforceable through court.

3. People would ask for permission if a large portion of mod makers would let go of there egos, and quit being jerks.

4. What you and curse are trying to do will land in hot water with Mojang as it will be against their EULA. The whole you can't make money off of Minecraft in any way excluding Youtube.

[Munaus]

3. People would ask for permission if a large portion of mod makers would let go of there egos, and quit being jerks.

.

That's pure speculation... You think the average 12yr old gamer would ask before using something?