IC2 wrench

[BuccaneerRex]

Oh, I don't like it either, but i accept it as part of the mod. It makes one pay more attention to where you put it, or deal with the mistake until you're advanced enough to correct it.

That said, industrial machinery is a serious pain to move, seeing as they usually weigh tons, and are quite a lot bigger than a meter cubed.

I think a viable alternative would be to make the wrench work more like a pick, where you have to spend some time taking down the machine. Hold RMB to keep the process going, but if you stop before it's completed, THEN you have a chance of losing your machine (at least back to components). Electric wrench would give you a faster break,down but would continue to cost energy. Lossless mode could be replaced with Instant mode, using up a lot more energy, for those too impatient to wait.

That, I think, would be a more balanced mechanic. It also fits the metaphor, as low-tech tools would obviously take longer, and losing concentration or making mistakes during the breakdown could cause damage to the machine.

Also, somebody needs to make an omni-toool mod. Perhaps with a plug-in system for the various mods. Maybe a Minecraftian Army Knife? You could switch between wrenches, screwdriver, crowbar, etc, along with a low-damage weapon for those unexpected mob attacks. Perhaps also include other tools like picks and shovels and a magnifying glass for starting fires. It would be totally OP if it didn't take massive durability damage though.

[KakerMix]

Oh, I don't like it either, but i accept it as part of the mod. It makes one pay more attention to where you put it, or deal with the mistake until you're advanced enough to correct it.

That said, industrial machinery is a serious pain to move, seeing as they usually weigh tons, and are quite a lot bigger than a meter cubed.

But that's just it, why the disconnect? If I have 60 MFSUs in my inventory I can whip them around, shove them through tubes, throw them in water, drop them from 200 blocks up, but IF YOU PLACE IT DOWN that suddenly changes things? The 'idea' that its heavy to move goes right out the window when I can haul around hundreds of them in my pocket.

Not to mention as a pure gameplay thing its stupid. It punishes people for playing the game. If I want to re-arrange my place I should be able to do it when I want to and how I want to do it. Everything else in Minecraft is moveable, I can shift around all sorts of other modded blocks, why can't I move IC2 stuff?

It's a stupid mechanic, just like their insistence on trying to keep recipes secret. I truly believe there is no way to defend it, because it makes no sense and it brings nothing to the game.

[BuccaneerRex]

But that's just it, why the disconnect? If I have 60 MFSUs in my inventory I can whip them around, shove them through tubes, throw them in water, drop them from 200 blocks up, but IF YOU PLACE IT DOWN that suddenly changes things? The 'idea' that its heavy to move goes right out the window when I can haul around hundreds of them in my pocket.

Not to mention as a pure gameplay thing its stupid. It punishes people for playing the game. If I want to re-arrange my place I should be able to do it when I want to and how I want to do it. Everything else in Minecraft is moveable, I can shift around all sorts of other modded blocks, why can't I move IC2 stuff?

It's a stupid mechanic, just like their insistence on trying to keep recipes secret. I truly believe there is no way to defend it, because it makes no sense and it brings nothing to the game.

I agree. Most of the time, I don't even put anything more advanced than a generator down until i have an electric wrench, just in case. I was just thinking of ways to balance the modder's intent with good gameplay. "realism" doesn't really fly in Minecraft, and penalizing the player for a misclick sucks. I can't tell you how many times I've destroyed an MFE because I clicked the dot instead of a blank face to turn it. There go four more diamonds, damnit.

That recipe thing keeps me from doing anything with the crops. It's one thing in something like Thaumcraft, where discovering the recipes is a core part of the mod, and gives you incentives to do so. But there is almost ZERO information about how to work the crop system. I learned more from watching Direwolf20 do it for 30 minutes than I did in months playing it. I saw weeds and wondered why they never seemed to grow any bigger.

I didn't even know that the advanced recipes gave you buffs. I thought it was just some more useless garbage.

If the rest of the mechanics weren't so much fun to play with, I'd abandon IC2 completely. As it is, I usually only make a processing center and a mass fab, and leave it at that.

[OmegaJasam]

IC2 is an utter testiment to bad user experiance. The crops especaly. A tiny /tiny/ portion of people actualy enjoy trying to work that stuff out. And it's so obscure you know the ones who did checked the source.

The flippping UU matter is even worse. Sure, hide the 10,000 or so combinations so people have to try them all manually to get anything intersting (or use table III e.t.c.)

[Neowulf]

Developers are eccentric. Really.

From what I've read Dan2000 removed color text from computercraft because, despite it being the number 1 suggestion on the CC forums, he wants his computers to feel like something from the late 80's/early 90's.

Azanor is dropping work on a very popular, pretty much feature complete mod for a second time this year because thaumcraft 2 just doesn't feel right.

Eloraam seems to go through phases of working intently on one feature set for a bit then flitting off to focus on something else.

Most mods have something about them that doesn't seem right to a normal person. Be it a gameplay feature that makes things harder than it needs to be for some arbitrary reason, an item or block that has nothing to do with the rest of the mod, or an easter egg that many people with removed (I'm looking at you millenair hall of fame...).

Not to mention the modders who are mentally deficient. Programming skill tends to only touch those who have a couple neurons crossed in their noggin.

[OmegaJasam]

It's probably a combination of the ad.fly, huge amounts of attention and the whole 'modders are gods who do no wrong, never question steal adapt or sue their stuff in any way but the horrable abitary means they inlict apon you including malicious code being inserted* community thats resulted in a lot of the early modders turning out awful.

There are ways to do game design, and some amazing programmers out there. The minecraft community just seems to have attracted and created the worst of them by far.

The big problem is normaly when this stuff happons, someone just creates a very similar/clone mod that does it better and the orginal dies off, but here it doesn't seem to work.

[Xylord]

IC2 is an utter testiment to bad user experiance. The crops especaly. A tiny /tiny/ portion of people actualy enjoy trying to work that stuff out. And it's so obscure you know the ones who did checked the source.

The flippping UU matter is even worse. Sure, hide the 10,000 or so combinations so people have to try them all manually to get anything intersting (or use table III e.t.c.)

WAIT. WAIT RIGHT THERE...

...

There is something else to do with UU-matter than Iridium?

... Since I finished my Quantum armor, I recently recycled four stacks of now (I thought) useless UU-matter... D:

[The Merchant of Menace]

You can convert it into most of the base materials in the game.

[OmegaJasam]

Yeah, it has loads of recipies, but they are hidden from NEI. Crafting table II/III had them. I think 9 of them in a square = a diamond for example. You can also get blocks like mossy cobble and grass blocks if I recall right.

[milcondoin]

List of UU Matter Recipes:

http://industrialcraft.wikia.com/wiki/UU-Matter_Recipes

[Xastabus]

Programming skill tends to only touch those who have a couple neurons crossed in their noggin.

I'm rewriting the core logic of my primary Bukkit project for a second time. Please excuse me if I go insane. ()

[OmegaJasam]

I'm rewriting the core logic of my primary Bukkit project for a second time. Please excuse me if I go insane. ()

I personaly think the /lack/ of game development is driving me crazy right now (Web development is just not the same). Damned if we do, damned if we don't ^^'

[NightKev]

You can disable IC2's recipe hiding "feature" in the config file for it, somewhere.

[liXiomm]

ah well, the sad truth is that it will probably never be changed, you shouldn't move your machines very often, people should read more attentively, and everyone will keep dreaming that some great super wrench will come out that reorients BC engines and removes IC2 machines, and oh-what-the-heck, rotates Forestry stuff even though it's gonna be removed anyway. :D

[The Merchant of Menace]

http://thermalexpansion.wikispaces.com/OmniWrench

[Lothos]

Sorry, my sarcasm detector was broken.

That thing breaks alot don't it?

TBH, some things should give you a pop up message in game as it is. Like digging/breaking a block with a tool that will break it but not drop anything should say that to you.

I would never have known there was a lossless mode for the e-wrench had i not seen it mentioned here. I simply never thought to read about the wrench having modes. Sure, I go and look for info on machines themselves or plumbing etc...but something you wouldn't think would have more details you don't think to go look up the "what's this button do?" features.

[Torezu]

That thing breaks alot don't it?

Yes. It works much better in person, though - it's just that typed words don't have a sarcastic tone, so if I don't know the person typing them quite well, I don't often catch it.

I would never have known there was a lossless mode for the e-wrench had i not seen it mentioned here. I simply never thought to read about the wrench having modes.

Note: If you're using lossless mode a lot, you'll want a lappack, or at least a batpack.

[Lothos]

or at least a batpack.

why is it no matter how often I see that item mentioned I can't help but think of the dark knight?

[Xylord]

why is it no matter how often I see that item mentioned I can't help but think of the dark knight?

Batarang, Batmobile, Batcave and Batpack, I guess it's a fine logic.

[Pulse95]

The vision of Lothos. Ladies and gentlemen, I present, The batpack!

[pwajnkaim]

the thing that annoys me most is that electric wrenches lose so much power when breaking machines, I have to break a machine then recharge and then break a machine again and recharge again...

[xchampx13]

the thing that annoys me most is that electric wrenches lose so much power when breaking machines, I have to break a machine then recharge and then break a machine again and recharge again...

Just use a batpack or lappack, you wont run out nearly as fast.

[stellarfirefly]

Dunno about Technic yet, but with Tekkit 3.1.2:

Server: Updated to IC2 1.97 r7. Fixes Multiworld issues. You can now set both wrenches into perma-lossless mode server-side (Port by muCkk)

Thing is, I can't find out how to do this in the configs. Once that is figured out, then I'd imagine that it can also be done for Technic whenever it goes to the same or a later version of IC2.

[Animadversor]

Huh, never even knew there was a lossless mode for the electric wrench. I must be extremely lucky, because the only time a machine's broken for me was when I forgot what I was doing and hacked up a mass fab and a few other things with a pickaxe. With EE and RP items being pick-able, it's easy to forget that IC isn't as kind.

[liXiomm]

Huh, never even knew there was a lossless mode for the electric wrench. I must be extremely lucky, because the only time a machine's broken for me was when I forgot what I was doing and hacked up a mass fab and a few other things with a pickaxe. With EE and RP items being pick-able, it's easy to forget that IC isn't as kind.

Is MY sarcasm detector broken? (I know Torezu's is right now, but he's got that fixed up now, happens to everyone from time to time)

I thought that you NEEDED a wrench to remove machines, and if it was a manual Tier-1 type (non-electric) it had the loss chance. Cause even for normal tier-1 macerators and compressors and the like, I never, and I mean never get a machine back. And I do agree with KakerMix, because if you can log around 1728 MFE's or MFSU's (inventory space: 36 spaces including hotbar and full stacks of units) in your "inventory" pocket, then you should be able to place them and pick them up easily. I mean, if there was a reduced speed rate due to anything in your inventory (which our good old buddies Notch and Jeb would probably never add), that would KIND OF make sense, but nevertheless it's still a dumb thing to keep in. I usually don't move my original setup (generator powering macerator, extractor, macerator), but I suppose moving solar panels is more common? I don't often use solar panels... The problem is that they are too reliable in that they never produce enough EU to power at least 3 Tier 1 machines.

Anyway, that's my rant. Have a good time with your lives.