I miss Industrial Craft...

[UnholyD]

And Backpacks. I keep forgetting about the Backpacks for the extra storage space.

[Euphoreich]

And Backpacks. I keep forgetting about the Backpacks for the extra storage space.

I'm pretty sure we have backpacks.

[UnholyD]

Ah, so you are one of those people.

I would ask what that was supposed to mean but I believe I already know the answer to that one.

EE2 worked fine. It could have just been updated and balanced further but instead EE3 is a start from scratch, bastardized version of what EE2 used to be. I'm not hating the loss of the Energy Collectors and Antimatter Relays and Free Stuff Makers but I do miss the Energy Condensers because it made things a lot easier to store and change. I loved Swiftwolf's Rending Gale as flight was much better with that (in my opinion) than the alternatives. And magic as EE2 had it was phenomenal. EE3 looks and feels like someone is making their own version of a mod like EE and decided to give up development right at the beginning. How long has it been since EE3 went into development? And this is all there is to show for it, a Minium Stone. Need I say more? I understand people have lives, that mod development is time consuming, that Mojang doesn't make it any easier by grinding out updates on a sporadic basis, and that there are balancing issues with earlier versions of a mod which requires, nay, MANDATES fixing. But, how long does it take to put in that which was once there and make it functional with the new version. Everyone else's mods work perfectly fine RIGHT NOW and EE3 makes Galacticraft look finished.

Sorry, got a little long and ranty there.

[UnholyD]

I'm pretty sure we have backpacks.

I was saying that I forgot to say we have backpacks for my earlier post. How much space do you really need when you have infinite storage at your fingertips? That's what I was trying to say but forgot as I've been busy between posts.

[theprolo]

I'm not saying QA does what MPS can't, I'm saying it's less OP.

With the Power Tool, I have a tool that can do everything without any real downside. EVER.

Initial cost, and power usage. Don't even bother trying to make the power tool seem OP because it can replace tools for the cost of power - IC2 had drills and chainsaws etc., which is a similar concept on a smaller scale, and I don't hear you yelling "OP!" at them. That's because it's not OP. It's just using power and machinery to replace vanilla stuff - isn't that basically what Tekkit is about? I get the feeling you're just trying (and failing) to prove a baseless point here.

How much inventory space do you need to save after all? Those few slots are SO important apparently. PT saves, let's see, 1 for Torches, 1 for Bow/Ranged Weapon, 2 (1 each for the shovel and pick since who walks around always with an Axe and a Hoe), and 1 for a Crafting Table. Paxel saves 1 for either pick or shovel and you get a free axe. I'm so butt hurt over those 4 slots to fill with nothing as mining can easily be automated by that point.

As has been already said, it's conveniance. You may not be butthurt about those 4 slots, but you appear to be extremely butthurt about something making your life easier and more awesome/technological.

As far as the Armor itself goes, if jumping one high blocks is so "inconvenient" then having to dig your first mine and come back with resources must be "excruciating". The Flight Control makes Gliding and Parachutes obsolete for "aerial control" once you get it. How much energy did you say you were saving by using the Glide Module? Nothing that a Solar Panel can't fix. Also, how much overland travel are you doing that requires you jumping off cliffs or flying up high enough to use the glider effectively? Not a lot hopefully otherwise you're wasting more energy getting up there than you're saving by floating.

If you don't understand the usefulness of the uphill step-assist, then it really shows that you barely even looked at the armour before shunning it under it's apparent "OP" abilities. Have you ever tried running at high speed without one? The constant bumps make it near impossible for any meaningful distance.

Gliding and parachutes are again conveniance. It helps if you're suddenly falling down a ravine to be able to cushion your fall, or even glide over to the opposite side to grab some ore that you spotted. I honestly can't see why you would complain about something which makes your life easier like this just because there's stuff you can do after it. It's low-tech stuff for a reason, and that's reflected in the cost.

You wanted to argue so badly that QA Invulnerability is so OP and yet cannot see what lies right before your very eyes in the MPS. By one-for-one comparison, we've got the same amount of effort and resources for the QA to give you a few bonuses which are (relatively) balanced vs. the MPS which gives you that and more, much, much, MUCH MORE, so much more that your head hurts thinking about it and so many balancing issues to make it laughable at best and infuriating at worst.

Give me some real balancing issues please, not just a pile of glaring misconceptions and pointless complaints. Nothing's perfect, but the lengths that you have gone to just to try, and fail, to spot problems in MPS makes me wonder if you really believe what you're saying, or are just trying to start an argument.

I'd also like to point out that, while it easily takes the place of quantum armour, MPS is not just about being armour. It's a mod to make a useful, versatile suit full of interesting features and abilities.

[Teraku]

There are power armor setups which function using little or no power. Think Gliders, Parachutes, that sort of thing.

And honestly, EE2 was way too easy. Just condensing stuff was way too easy, even without Collectors. The developer is working on it, albeit very slowly.

[Aurrin]

Initial cost, and power usage. Don't even bother trying to make the power tool seem OP because it can replace tools for the cost of power - IC2 had drills and chainsaws etc., which is a similar concept on a smaller scale, and I don't hear you yelling "OP!" at them. That's because it's not OP. It's just using power and machinery to replace vanilla stuff - isn't that basically what Tekkit is about? I get the feeling you're just trying (and failing) to prove a baseless point here.

As has been already said, it's conveniance. You may not be butthurt about those 4 slots, but you appear to be extremely butthurt about something making your life easier and more awesome/technological.

If you don't understand the usefulness of the uphill step-assist, then it really shows that you barely even looked at the armour before shunning it under it's apparent "OP" abilities. Have you ever tried running at high speed without one? The constant bumps make it near impossible for any meaningful distance.

Gliding and parachutes are again conveniance. It helps if you're suddenly falling down a ravine to be able to cushion your fall, or even glide over to the opposite side to grab some ore that you spotted. I honestly can't see why you would complain about something which makes your life easier like this just because there's stuff you can do after it. It's low-tech stuff for a reason, and that's reflected in the cost.

Give me some real balancing issues please, not just a pile of glaring misconceptions and pointless complaints. Nothing's perfect, but the lengths that you have gone to just to try, and fail, to spot problems in MPS makes me wonder if you really believe what you're saying, or are just trying to start an argument.

I'd also like to point out that, while it easily takes the place of quantum armour, MPS is not just about being armour. It's a mod to make a useful, versatile suit full of interesting features and abilities.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: There's always someone satisfied with less than you.

'Game balance' in minecraft is an absurd concept, and always listening to the people whining that it's too powerful will eventually lead you back to Vanilla. This is not EVE Online, it's not World of Warcraft. It's Minecraft. There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to craft your way to invincible God-armor, omni-everything-forever-tools, and infinite resources. Sandbox games are like that.

[theprolo]

Fair point. If UnholyD wants to live in the Stone Age, who am I to stop him? Him trying to drag me with him, on the other hand...

[street_carp]

But it isn't Minecraft, it's Tekkit. It's a modpack assembled by people with certain goals and ideas of balance in mind.

[Aurrin]

Fair point. If UnholyD wants to live in the Stone Age, who am I to stop him? Him trying to drag me with him, on the other hand...

That's how I've felt ever since people decided that EE2 was armageddon incarnate because it allowed you to do the unthinkable and have unlimited resources - for free! If you want to limit yourself for fun, be my guest. Just don't try to drag me down with you.

Really, in a sandbox game, the tech progression misses the point. Achieving highest tier tech is not the end of the game, it's the beginning of the game. What kind of amazing creations can you make with that power? If you stop once you've got a fully-kitted workshop and one or two end-tier energy sinks, you've missed out on much of what minecraft has to offer. Being upset that people make it that far on a regular basis demonstrates a massive failure of imagination. Go watch a few Let's Build videos to get inspired and do something worthy of that power.

[Lostonexxx]

I don't know exactly how to reply to this one...

Newer mods haven't exactly been streamlined or efficient (take Galacticraft for example 2 steps forward 3 steps back). And if you're just looking for new content, you're looking in the wrong place. Everything gets stale after a few years. Following that, an overhaul would be nice, but an update would be satisfactory (at least for a while).

Galacticraft is a bad comparison, as it doesnt replace anything from ic2. Admittedly, galacticraft, although fun, is a cobbled together mess at the moment. But the potential is there. I was refering mostly to the thermal expansion machines. Which are far superior to ic2 machinery with regards to automation and set up. Yes, the machines may be slower than ic2's upgraded ones, which forces you to make more if speed is what you are going for, rather than magical upgrades etc. Ic2 farming was a joke at best, and brewing was such a minor part of the mod, Im amazed anybody would miss it. The one thing I still feel is keeping ic2 alive is gregtech, which I think is a great mod. A little sadistic perhaps, but still a great mod.

EE2 is by far and away a massive game breaker. After two days, you may as well be playing in creative for goodness sake. Condensers were handy for emc farms and for getting things you were too lazy to collect or automate. But even just re-adding condensers to ee3 would break the game entirely. EE3 is indeed a very shallow mod at the moment. But just having a minium stone is slightly game breaking. A decent mob farm nets plenty of shards to fund a tree farm/diamond factory. Adding back in dark matter tools is a waste of time and would put me off ee3 entirely.

The solar panels from ic2 were also ridiculously overpowered. That amount of power being magically collected in a one block space? Not to mention that four of them would equal a high output nuclear reactor lol, utter nonsense. Reactors could do with being replaced in the future, as long as they were actually worth the effort to build, unlike previous incarnations.

So in short,,,,,

IC2 machines need a full overhaul to,,, Make them anywhere near as efficient as thermal expansions automation. Make some of them worth using at all (electrolyzer) or remove the bloody things. Make the recipes for certain things a bit more realistic (magical speed boost upgrades for next to nothing). Batboxes were so cheap, I never even bothered using one unless it was part of another recipe. One mining trip would net you an mfe without any fuss at all. I can envision ic2 machinery as many multiblock structures, making industrial factories and things actually an impressive sight to see. Mass fab needs to be nerfed as well, or at least changed to be gregtech standards, with scrap a necessity, not an option. Solars need nerfed, or to be multiblock multichunk arrays to aquire the same amount of power. Reactors need to be gregtech difficult, but still outperform any free energy production. Making them not just fun and challenging to build, but actually worth the time and effort compared to spamming solars. The farming and brewing could easily become mods in their own right if the time was put into making them worthwhile. IC2 is full of potential! But will it ever be realised? Or is it a dead horse being flogged by fanboys? Greg made it fun again, for a while, but in its current state, its dead.

I agree that mps are just as OP as quantumsuit. You can have a fully loaded mps after running one 64x64 quarry. So in fact, more op than quantum. The recipes need heavily balanced in my opinion. But that doesnt stop the mps being far superior to quantums. Sidenote, I would have full nano after one mining trip as well, so they were pretty op too.

As I said, I loved ic2. But there is more challenge and fun to be had creating things with newer mods.

So unless ic2 is massively overhauled, i wouldnt want it to be added again and I very highly doubt that it ever would, even if it got the overhaul. As the track record for updates is a bit ropey. Would you really want your modpack of choice to stop updating just because you wanted a mass fab or solar panels to make life easier? Or because you liked drinking enough beer to give you nausea and probably die?

[UnholyD]

As I said, I loved ic2. But there is more challenge and fun to be had creating things with newer mods.

So unless ic2 is massively overhauled, i wouldnt want it to be added again and I very highly doubt that it ever would, even if it got the overhaul. As the track record for updates is a bit ropey. Would you really want your modpack of choice to stop updating just because you wanted a mass fab or solar panels to make life easier? Or because you liked drinking enough beer to give you nausea and probably die?

I kinda condensed what was said in order to save some space, but am going to address my side as best as possible overall.

The Galacticraft comparison wasn't for tools or anything, it was for the fact that Galacticraft had a lot of places, like Mars for example, in it's original conception which disappeared as things were being implemented and Vanilla got updated. 2 steps forward...

TE is alright but not my cup of tea as far as the look and feel to them. Also slow being the operative term I'd use as well as bulky. After you get them set up, for any form of automation, you have to set up multiples of the same machines with cables/pipes running everywhere to get it all to function. IC could get the same result with a lot less space. If you haven't noticed, I like being able to miniaturize just as much as I like to see massive factories with stuff EVERYWHERE.

I liked the farming as there wasn't much to begin with. What is in now? Vanilla and that's about it. I liked experimenting like with Tree and Bee Breeding in Forestry.

Brewing, although archaic and nearly useless, was a fresh spin on something that no other mod dare tread into due to it's lack of "usefulness". What's wrong with wanting to have a pint every so often just for the fun of it?

I don't know of Gregtech. I'll have to look into that.

EE2 is game breaking but, only if you decided you wanted to revolve your entire industry around it. I used the IC Recycler more than I used the EE Condenser unless I needed Diamonds for something right then and there.

I don't know what you've been smoking, but it takes Dozens if not Hundreds of Solar Panels to equal the power output of 1 Nuclear Reactor. Even though using renewable energy sources like Solar is apparently too "OP" for some people.

Some machines were kind of useless, broken, and/or needed work. DUH! Also, Minecraft is Memory intensive enough without Multi-Block, Multi-Chunk apparatuses.

Thanks for realizing how OP both QA and MPS each are in their own regards.

And yes, to a certain degree, I'd be ok, not ecstatic, not enthralled, not hyper, or even happy about it, if I could make my Ale and drink it too.

I'll admit that the long hiatus between updates isn't really a good thing. But what are we actually getting with the 1.4 - 1.5 comparisons on certain mods or even Vanilla? Not a lot. Yes there is something there, and yes, it's the version currently being worked on, but how much different is it as a whole? Just take EE3 for example: All through 1.4 and 1.5 we've seen no real change. And 1.6 is in development now with so many modders getting on that bandwagon as soon as possible with no real change being seen in EE3 STILL. So if you want to argue semantics, lets argue some semantics shall we?

I think that covers all of it. If I missed something, I'm sorry. As I said before, I've been a bit rushed and a lot of my thoughts might be a bit disjointed. I'm trying to cover my bases but I'm falling short pretty quickly it seems.

[theprolo]

By solars replacing nuclear reactors, he was referring to solar arrays - which in many people's eyes just completely replaced the need for any other form of power. Who needs to put the effort into a nether lava facility or nuclear reactor complex when a simple block can provide far more power for no running cost, no danger and no effort once it's built? It got on a lot of people's nerves because it basically shortened the list of power sources to solar panel, LV solar array etc. for many people. It's one of the things people most disliked about IC2.

[UnholyD]

Initial cost, and power usage. Don't even bother trying to make the power tool seem OP because it can replace tools for the cost of power - IC2 had drills and chainsaws etc., which is a similar concept on a smaller scale, and I don't hear you yelling "OP!" at them. That's because it's not OP. It's just using power and machinery to replace vanilla stuff - isn't that basically what Tekkit is about? I get the feeling you're just trying (and failing) to prove a baseless point here.

As has been already said, it's conveniance. You may not be butthurt about those 4 slots, but you appear to be extremely butthurt about something making your life easier and more awesome/technological.

If you don't understand the usefulness of the uphill step-assist, then it really shows that you barely even looked at the armour before shunning it under it's apparent "OP" abilities. Have you ever tried running at high speed without one? The constant bumps make it near impossible for any meaningful distance.

Gliding and parachutes are again conveniance. It helps if you're suddenly falling down a ravine to be able to cushion your fall, or even glide over to the opposite side to grab some ore that you spotted. I honestly can't see why you would complain about something which makes your life easier like this just because there's stuff you can do after it. It's low-tech stuff for a reason, and that's reflected in the cost.

Give me some real balancing issues please, not just a pile of glaring misconceptions and pointless complaints. Nothing's perfect, but the lengths that you have gone to just to try, and fail, to spot problems in MPS makes me wonder if you really believe what you're saying, or are just trying to start an argument.

I'd also like to point out that, while it easily takes the place of quantum armour, MPS is not just about being armour. It's a mod to make a useful, versatile suit full of interesting features and abilities.

Replace isn't necessarily OP or Diamond would be OP over Iron. OP is having all those tools, and more, in a tight little package for nearly no resources. I'll admit, the 1 Emerald Required to make the Tinker Table might be a little hard to get if you can't find a Village but the rest of it is nothing. Mainly Iron, Copper, and Redstone. Most of your modules can be made after your first mining expedition. Hell, just shy of anything using an Ion Thruster, almost all can be made within a couple days. One tool to do everything is quite OP. One or two, maybe 3. Whatever. But the Power Tool has all Tools, Melee and Ranged Weapons, Crafting Table, and a whole cadre of other things that it can do in, one, tiny, handheld, package. To do that in any other mod requires at least 3 or 4 different items, or even 2 or more different mods.

I'm not butthurt over ease and simplicity. I am butthurt over everyone saying that an item that is CLEARLY OP is apparently nowhere near in their opinions. I never said I didn't like Power Tools. I just think there's a metric fuckton more balancing needed.

Constantly running into bumps in the road sounds like you don't ever jump. At all. Ever. You see a hill coming up. You jump. You see a crater in the ground. You jump. You see a massive ravine or river. You jump. Step assist becomes unnecessary unless you have a broken spacebar.

If you read at all, I wasn't dissing parachutes or gliders. I said they get obsolete once you get a Jetpack or Jetboots.

And lastly, I did give a list of things, just like now. But apparently people can't, or won't, read the print in front of their faces to discern meaning. I said, MPS is OP. WAY OP. So OP as to be outlandishly ridiculously OP by COMPARISON to Nano or Quantum Gear. To say it isn't is to say that, at least in your opinion, nothing is OP. I respond to that by saying, "Does it really matter then because it sounds to me like you play in creative anyway."

[UnholyD]

By solars replacing nuclear reactors, he was referring to solar arrays - which in many people's eyes just completely replaced the need for any other form of power. Who needs to put the effort into a nether lava facility or nuclear reactor complex when a simple block can provide far more power for no running cost, no danger and no effort once it's built? It got on a lot of people's nerves because it basically shortened the list of power sources to solar panel, LV solar array etc. for many people. It's one of the things people most disliked about IC2.

The Arrays weren't IC or IC2. They were a mod created by a person who wanted to add that sort of thing in which used IC Solar Panels for the base creation. It's like saying Forestry is Buildcraft because it uses Buildcraft or Buildcraft-like machines to power everything in it. There is a difference.

I do say thank you for the clarification though. I completely missed that. I just assumed everyone on here knew the difference between all the mods so I just sped through it.

[dirtyword]

I don't understand... It's not as if you can't play it now, or even add it to this Tekkit pack of your own volition.

[Aurrin]

Replace isn't necessarily OP or Diamond would be OP over Iron. OP is having all those tools, and more, in a tight little package for nearly no resources. I'll admit, the 1 Emerald Required to make the Tinker Table might be a little hard to get if you can't find a Village but the rest of it is nothing. Mainly Iron, Copper, and Redstone. Most of your modules can be made after your first mining expedition. Hell, just shy of anything using an Ion Thruster, almost all can be made within a couple days. One tool to do everything is quite OP. One or two, maybe 3. Whatever. But the Power Tool has all Tools, Melee and Ranged Weapons, Crafting Table, and a whole cadre of other things that it can do in, one, tiny, handheld, package. To do that in any other mod requires at least 3 or 4 different items, or even 2 or more different mods.

I'm not butthurt over ease and simplicity. I am butthurt over everyone saying that an item that is CLEARLY OP is apparently nowhere near in their opinions. I never said I didn't like Power Tools. I just think there's a metric fuckton more balancing needed.

Constantly running into bumps in the road sounds like you don't ever jump. At all. Ever. You see a hill coming up. You jump. You see a crater in the ground. You jump. You see a massive ravine or river. You jump. Step assist becomes unnecessary unless you have a broken spacebar.

If you read at all, I wasn't dissing parachutes or gliders. I said they get obsolete once you get a Jetpack or Jetboots.

And lastly, I did give a list of things, just like now. But apparently people can't, or won't, read the print in front of their faces to discern meaning. I said, MPS is OP. WAY OP. So OP as to be outlandishly ridiculously OP by COMPARISON to Nano or Quantum Gear. To say it isn't is to say that, at least in your opinion, nothing is OP. I respond to that by saying, "Does it really matter then because it sounds to me like you play in creative anyway."

It may be possible, in a sandbox game, to have something that's OP, but you'd have to try a lot harder than just packaging a lot of tools in the space required for one. What would even be the point of modding if you're not going to provide ease/convenience not found in the original game?

If you don't want any of those new-fangled conveniences, don't use them, and quit whining about it here. If you don't want anyone else to have them, go play on a Vanilla server, and quit whining about it here. In either case, this is not the grind you're looking for, and it never will be.

[Teraku]

The compact solars (arrays) actually combated one problem, but created another. The reason it was made was because people were making huge farms of Solar Panels each giving 1 EU/t. One HV Array of 512 EU/t was A LOT less laggy than 512 Solar Panels of 1 EU/t.

[UnholyD]

I don't understand... It's not as if you can't play it now, or even add it to this Tekkit pack of your own volition.

Half true. I'm not a modder myself. I've forgotten more about Java programming than most people have ever bothered to learn. (I've got my old "How to" book somewhere around here. I'll have to refresh my memory one of these days.) And Tekkit Lite and Tekkit Classic I do play in addition to the new Tekkit, same with Voltz (though arguable less so on that one).

I guess in a nutshell I'm trying to say I've been seeing a lot of IC hate and nobody really defending it. After reading a few comments here, I'm seeing a few people who, although on the surface are not as torn up about it as myself, are saddened to see IC go after so long. I just thought I was the only one and felt that if nobody was giving two shits that I'd be the one to do it.

[Aurrin]

The compact solars (arrays) actually combated one problem, but created another. The reason it was made was because people were making huge farms of Solar Panels each giving 1 EU/t. One HV Array of 512 EU/t was A LOT less laggy than 512 Solar Panels of 1 EU/t.

They didn't really create a problem, Teraku. What can it possibly matter to you if other people are making solar arrays? It's fundamentally no different from any other kind of self-sustaining power, save that it's possibly less laggy because there are fewer steps involved.

You just got tired of the content, and wanted to see something new. Can we please just admit this and move on instead of trying to demonize solar panels as though there was something actually wrong with them?

[UnholyD]

The compact solars (arrays) actually combated one problem, but created another. The reason it was made was because people were making huge farms of Solar Panels each giving 1 EU/t. One HV Array of 512 EU/t was A LOT less laggy than 512 Solar Panels of 1 EU/t.

This is completely true. Not everyone (myself included) has a high performance gaming computer to handle MASSIVE setups to get the same result.

[Teraku]

They didn't really create a problem, Teraku. What can it possibly matter to you if other people are making solar arrays? It's fundamentally no different from any other kind of self-sustaining power, save that it's possibly less laggy because there are fewer steps involved.

You just got tired of the content, and wanted to see something new. Can we please just admit this and move on instead of trying to demonize solar panels as though there was something actually wrong with them?

There was something wrong with them. They were place & forget without a lot of effort, apart from investing resources. Compact Solars solved the lag problem, but created the problem that a single block could be placed anywhere with very little effort, and would never require any maintenance, ever again, yet still handed out tons of free energy.

Also, please don't try to tell me why I like or dislike something. I can decide that for myself, thank you.

[UnholyD]

They didn't really create a problem, Teraku. What can it possibly matter to you if other people are making solar arrays? It's fundamentally no different from any other kind of self-sustaining power, save that it's possibly less laggy because there are fewer steps involved.

You just got tired of the content, and wanted to see something new. Can we please just admit this and move on instead of trying to demonize solar panels as though there was something actually wrong with them?

I didn't see any demonizing in Teraku's post, just a statement that Solar Arrays helped those with lag issues but at the same time gave those without those kinds of issues a way to get the same end result without any of the effort.

[UnholyD]

There was something wrong with them. They were place & forget without a lot of effort, apart from investing resources. Compact Solars solved the lag problem, but created the problem that a single block could be placed anywhere with very little effort, and would never require any maintenance, ever again, yet still handed out tons of free energy.

Also, please don't tell me what I like and dislike and why. I can decide that for myself, thank you.

And to think, I created a post saying the exact same thing err... sans the stating what one does or doesn't like and decide for one's self. Damn my Internet Connection today.

[Aurrin]

There was something wrong with them. They were place & forget without a lot of effort, apart from investing resources. Compact Solars solved the lag problem, but created the problem that a single block could be placed anywhere with very little effort, and would never require any maintenance, ever again, yet still handed out tons of free energy.

Also, please don't tell me what I like and dislike and why. I can decide that for myself, thank you.

Any self-sustaining power-grid is going to be constructed from a few blocks that are place and forget. That's a completely irrational argument. Either you have maintenance-free power in the game, or you don't. It doesn't matter if it's one block, two, or ten. It had a high resource cost and a high time cost to create, which is really all you can add in the balance department.

So, if you weren't just tired of the content, what reason is there to say something was wrong with them?