EE and Tekkit

[Ekevoo]

I find it funny that part of the argument is kinda like "yes it's creative" "no it's not creative" as if turning the game into a more creative-like stance is a bad thing. I like EE exactly because it makes the game more into creative mode. They still have to manage resources, it's just a lot easier. People still have to earn their power, but once they do, it's powerful indeed.

I trust my players to be able to wield such power wisely… sometimes they don't, I have had to reset chunks several times because of interaction between EE and BuildCraft turning into ridiculous amounts of entities, but that's ok, I like to encourage experimentation. I find it a bit more satisfying than vanilla sometimes.

The vanilla server is still my main server though.

[OmegaJasam]

That's assuming this "magical rewrite" is any more balanced than the current version. It could just be an addition of 20 new items that do much the same OP stuff as the current version.

From what we've seen so far, it has new systems and removes/ changes a lot of the old ones.

hallf the point of it is that the current system is terrable for SMP balance (the devs words, not mine) and that the cool stuff doesn't feel cool enough, or like an achivement to get.

Redwater looks very very cool.

[gman96734]

From what we've seen so far, it has new systems and removes/ changes a lot of the old ones.

hallf the point of it is that the current system is terrable for SMP balance (the devs words, not mine) and that the cool stuff doesn't feel cool enough, or like an achivement to get.

Redwater looks very very cool.

Hey, so, weird question. Could somebody link me to the dev post about this rewrite?

[OmegaJasam]

What I've heard is spread out over a number of Direwolf SMP vids, a couple posts here and there. So I can't. Someone else might know of one.

[Lothos]

i caught the end of a thread on MCF that has them mentioning doublign the cost of RM stuff but increasing the rate on the Mk3 collectors. They're trying to make RM a better achievement and make DM useful for a period.

Something I think EE needs though that Thaum has is the thaum duplicator its a 5x cost increase to make something compared to what you get melting it down to vis. That alone I think would really square EE away in my books.

[OmegaJasam]

LastI heard he was /removing/ dark matter entirly.

Honestly, EE would still be a problem. The ability to turn pumpkins into diamonds will always break things. With the lesser stone you'd at least have a limit on the amount you could do with it I guess.

Honestly, thuams dupe, and EE's UU matter are also terrable for game balance. They remove fundimental mechanics such as finite resources, which plays havock with any other mod/vanilla.

[gotyaoi]

But... No resource is really finite. It's an infinite world game. All you have to do is walk a few more steps and you've got 16 more pristine chunks. And if you don't feel like walking, we have mystcraft, where you can create worlds simply for the purpose of stripping them to bedrock.

[VermillionX]

LastI heard he was /removing/ dark matter entirly.

Honestly, thuams dupe, and EE's UU matter are also terrable for game balance. They remove fundimental mechanics such as finite resources, which plays havock with any other mod/vanilla.

UU Matter is from IC2 and takes a shit load of EU to produce just one. It truly is more of end game thing and it's still limited in what you can create and in set small amounts. And Thaum isn't part of Tekkit, it would have to be a manual addition.

But... No resource is really finite. It's an infinite world game. All you have to do is walk a few more steps and you've got 16 more pristine chunks. And if you don't feel like walking, we have mystcraft, where you can create worlds simply for the purpose of stripping them to bedrock.

MystCraft also isn't part of Tekkit. And the world isn't infinite on SMP, where the majority of Minecraft is played. Every server has borders and limited chunks to be loaded.

[Xylord]

UU Matter is from IC2 and takes a shit load of EU to produce just one. It truly is more of end game thing and it's still limited in what you can create and in set small amounts. And Thaum isn't part of Tekkit, it would have to be a manual addition.

MystCraft also isn't part of Tekkit. And the world isn't infinite on SMP, where the majority of Minecraft is played. Every server has borders and limited chunks to be loaded.

Well, I'm pretty sure he meant that it's "practically" infinite. Nobody is going to mine out completely hundreds of chunks.

[gotyaoi]

Sure, lets take a look at the math of that for a moment. First, the average amount of ores per chunk. I'm ignoring other resources since things like stone are practically infinite or renewable and no one really cares about them anyway.

Coal: 163 per chunk(this estimate is conservative, I didn't include mountains)

Iron: 98 per chunk(same as coal, but there's only a bit more above sea level, so this is closer to the true amount)

redstone: 122 per chunk(there may be more, as I assumed that each would drop four only. They sometimes drop 5)

lapis: 15 per chunk(same as redstone, I assumed 4, they go up to 8)

gold: 7 per chunk

diamond: 3 per chunk.

Now the border. lets say something restrictive like 3000 blocks in any direction. I'm going to assume square borders, as it's easier, but round would have even more chunks. so 6000 x 6000 blocks total area, or 375 chunks by 375 chunks. Multiplying, we get 140,625 chunks. So on average...

22,921,875 coal. I think we're safe there.

13,781,250 iron. Still doing well.

17,156,250 redstone. Even given the way IC2 eats the stuff, we're probably ok.

2,109,375 lapis. Oh yeah, we sure go through lapis more than fast enough to use that, right?

984,375 gold. Even though we have more uses for it than vanilla... nearly one million blocks of the stuff.

And now the bit that everyone cares about, diamonds.

421,875 diamonds. Seriously. If we didn't have EE, what even would we use so many of the damn things for?

And that's for a mere 375 chunk edge side. for every chunk you increase that by, you get (newedgesize*2) - 1 more chunks. For example, going to 376 would get you 751 more chunks. over 2000 more diamonds.

So yeah, even with borders...

[DELTALON.exe]

Sure, lets take a look at the math of that for a moment. First, the average amount of ores per chunk. I'm ignoring other resources since things like stone are practically infinite or renewable and no one really cares about them anyway.

Coal: 163 per chunk(this estimate is conservative, I didn't include mountains)

Iron: 98 per chunk(same as coal, but there's only a bit more above sea level, so this is closer to the true amount)

redstone: 122 per chunk(there may be more, as I assumed that each would drop four only. They sometimes drop 5)

lapis: 15 per chunk(same as redstone, I assumed 4, they go up to 8)

gold: 7 per chunk

diamond: 3 per chunk.

Now the border. lets say something restrictive like 3000 blocks in any direction. I'm going to assume square borders, as it's easier, but round would have even more chunks. so 6000 x 6000 blocks total area, or 375 chunks by 375 chunks. Multiplying, we get 140,625 chunks. So on average...

22,921,875 coal. I think we're safe there.

13,781,250 iron. Still doing well.

17,156,250 redstone. Even given the way IC2 eats the stuff, we're probably ok.

2,109,375 lapis. Oh yeah, we sure go through lapis more than fast enough to use that, right?

984,375 gold. Even though we have more uses for it than vanilla... nearly one million blocks of the stuff.

And now the bit that everyone cares about, diamonds.

421,875 diamonds. Seriously. If we didn't have EE, what even would we use so many of the damn things for?

And that's for a mere 375 chunk edge side. for every chunk you increase that by, you get (newedgesize*2) - 1 more chunks. For example, going to 376 would get you 751 more chunks. over 2000 more diamonds.

So yeah, even with borders...

And if I've done this right, a map is 1568852x1568852 chunks across before you get to where the far lands used to be. I'm pretty sure that the playable area is waaaaay more than that now, but I could be wrong. There's no way you'll ever end up using all that.

[vitorsly]

Sure, lets take a look at the math of that for a moment. First, the average amount of ores per chunk. I'm ignoring other resources since things like stone are practically infinite or renewable and no one really cares about them anyway.

Coal: 163 per chunk(this estimate is conservative, I didn't include mountains)

Iron: 98 per chunk(same as coal, but there's only a bit more above sea level, so this is closer to the true amount)

redstone: 122 per chunk(there may be more, as I assumed that each would drop four only. They sometimes drop 5)

lapis: 15 per chunk(same as redstone, I assumed 4, they go up to 8)

gold: 7 per chunk

diamond: 3 per chunk.

Now the border. lets say something restrictive like 3000 blocks in any direction. I'm going to assume square borders, as it's easier, but round would have even more chunks. so 6000 x 6000 blocks total area, or 375 chunks by 375 chunks. Multiplying, we get 140,625 chunks. So on average...

22,921,875 coal. I think we're safe there.

13,781,250 iron. Still doing well.

17,156,250 redstone. Even given the way IC2 eats the stuff, we're probably ok.

2,109,375 lapis. Oh yeah, we sure go through lapis more than fast enough to use that, right?

984,375 gold. Even though we have more uses for it than vanilla... nearly one million blocks of the stuff.

And now the bit that everyone cares about, diamonds.

421,875 diamonds. Seriously. If we didn't have EE, what even would we use so many of the damn things for?

And that's for a mere 375 chunk edge side. for every chunk you increase that by, you get (newedgesize*2) - 1 more chunks. For example, going to 376 would get you 751 more chunks. over 2000 more diamonds.

So yeah, even with borders...

So comparing to THOSE amount ( I had no idea there were that many!), EE is THAT bad at all.

I dislike mining more than 500 blcoks from home.

[Dijego]

421,875 diamonds. Seriously. If we didn't have EE, what even would we use so many of the damn things for?

Well, this is proof that EE is overpowered. With EE I got that amount of diamonds within 1 chunk, created from thin air. What the hell was I supposed to use all those diamonds for!? Well, I made Gem Armour and some Katar. The funny part is that I did not abuse any dupe glitch to get it, it only took me about 8 hours to get the full Gem Armour set, yes I had 4 Omega Klein Stars charged in no time.

Above all this, my method of gaining EMC was not even fully optimized yet, I could have easily made an EMC farm (with a size that fits in one chunk) that would have speed it up 5x. To make matters even worse, it was the first time I ever used EE, I just looked up some recipes, put some resources in and saw the possibilities of cheap stuff.

The core of EE is rotten, and it made my stay on that server revolve around EE and use the other mods to make EE even stronger, and thus within 8 hours I was in Creative Mode on a PVP server. New players didn't know what was happening to them when I flew into their base while pressing 'c'. EE was so overpowered that I got bored and was destroying everything on my path with my friend who had used my leftover EMC to create the second Gem Armour set. The server's spawn didn't last long either.

My opinion on EE is that it should be singleplayer only or non-pvp servers. As for IC2, they should remove quantum and nano armor for PVP. But I want to stop whining and slightly go offtopic (on topic when you consider the argument of people who say that you should look for a new server) to explain an idea that might help prevent "EE opinion battles".

The current way of finding a server is not very efficient, I have to go over 20 pages to find about 4 servers that have the setup of mods/plugins that I am satisfied with.

The server style I am looking for is a server that has:

- No BuildCraft (RP2 replaces it, + Buildcraft can suck up high amounts of server resources (I will only be missing the oil)) Note: This removes Power Converters also ofc.

- No Equivalent Exchange (I don't enjoy creative mode, + I like PvP)

- No Ender Storage

- No TubeStuff

- No World Anchors in any form

- No Iron Chests (Restrictions stimulate creativity, more inventory space in a chest reduces that restriction)

+ PvP (Factions plugin, not towny)

+ RP2 (Awesome mod, very clean and powerful, but not unbalancing)

+ Railcraft (I love making factories that handle incoming carts, unloading them, loading them etc.)

+ Nether Ores (Notch failed to make the Nether decent, this makes it decent)

+ Balkon's Weapon Mod (Muskets are just so nice and the long reload time makes sure you can't depend on them alone (Blunderbuss might need some work))

/ IC2 Solar Arrays ( I am not sure how balanced this is, haven't tried it yet. I usually start with geothermals (personal preference))

I've been looking for this, for a long time and on many websites. But what every server listing website misses is the functionality to have a checklist of what mods you want and what you do not want. This would make it so much easier to browse through servers and finding what you want.

[awesomedal14]

Personally, I absolutly LOVE EE! I reckon its the best mod ever made. That doesn't mean I hate all the people who don't like it or think its overpowered, because it can be! But it's not about hardcore sitting down for 10 hours straight playing furiously getting your quantum armor or gem armor complete. It's a GAME my friends. Something you casually do in your past time. If you get Quantum or gem armor in 2 hours (and yes I keep track of my play time) then you are obviously a NERD. I've played maybe 4 hours on my survival world? I've got a collector relay condenser and all that, but I don't have gem armor. And now I'm going to get a lot of replies saying 'HAHA NO GEM ARMOR IN 2 HOURS LOSER!' well you know why? I know it's just a game and is only there to spend your free time having fun on. So please guys, remember what your dad would tell you when you lost pacman or whatever and you got angry: "IT'S JUST A GAME SON, GET OVER IT" and btw I'm 13 shows how mature you guys are and if I had to take sides it's keep EE just dont use it and wih the guy who said why not use cobble stone farms? Which mod makes them into diamonds? EE BABY!!

[Xylord]

My opinion on EE is that it should be singleplayer only or non-pvp servers. As for IC2, they should remove quantum and nano armor for PVP. But I want to stop whining and slightly go offtopic (on topic when you consider the argument of people who say that you should look for a new server) to explain an idea that might help prevent "EE opinion battles".

The current way of finding a server is not very efficient, I have to go over 20 pages to find about 4 servers that have the setup of mods/plugins that I am satisfied with.

The server style I am looking for is a server that has:

- No BuildCraft (RP2 replaces it, + Buildcraft can suck up high amounts of server resources (I will only be missing the oil)) Note: This removes Power Converters also ofc.

- No Equivalent Exchange (I don't enjoy creative mode, + I like PvP)

- No Ender Storage

- No TubeStuff

- No World Anchors in any form

- No Iron Chests (Restrictions stimulate creativity, more inventory space in a chest reduces that restriction)

+ PvP (Factions plugin, not towny)

+ RP2 (Awesome mod, very clean and powerful, but not unbalancing)

+ Railcraft (I love making factories that handle incoming carts, unloading them, loading them etc.)

+ Nether Ores (Notch failed to make the Nether decent, this makes it decent)

+ Balkon's Weapon Mod (Muskets are just so nice and the long reload time makes sure you can't depend on them alone (Blunderbuss might need some work))

/ IC2 Solar Arrays ( I am not sure how balanced this is, haven't tried it yet. I usually start with geothermals (personal preference))

I've been looking for this, for a long time and on many websites. But what every server listing website misses is the functionality to have a checklist of what mods you want and what you do not want. This would make it so much easier to browse through servers and finding what you want.

So, you say you don't want to go off-topic, and then you ask us to find for you a server because browsing some pages of the section is too boring for you... Ah, the irony.

Personally, I absolutly LOVE EE! I reckon its the best mod ever made. That doesn't mean I hate all the people who don't like it or think its overpowered, because it can be! But it's not about hardcore sitting down for 10 hours straight playing furiously getting your quantum armor or gem armor complete. It's a GAME my friends. Something you casually do in your past time. If you get Quantum or gem armor in 2 hours (and yes I keep track of my play time) then you are obviously a NERD. I've played maybe 4 hours on my survival world? I've got a collector relay condenser and all that, but I don't have gem armor. And now I'm going to get a lot of replies saying 'HAHA NO GEM ARMOR IN 2 HOURS LOSER!' well you know why? I know it's just a game and is only there to spend your free time having fun on. So please guys, remember what your dad would tell you when you lost pacman or whatever and you got angry: "IT'S JUST A GAME SON, GET OVER IT" and btw I'm 13 shows how mature you guys are and if I had to take sides it's keep EE just dont use it and wih the guy who said why not use cobble stone farms? Which mod makes them into diamonds? EE BABY!!

Eh... I was about to respond to this, but it's the morning, it's Sunday, I'm sipping a warm coffee and eating crunchy cereals... I think I'll leave the pleasure to another.

[racingpro]

Personally, I absolutly LOVE EE! I reckon its the best mod ever made. That doesn't mean I hate all the people who don't like it or think its overpowered, because it can be! But it's not about hardcore sitting down for 10 hours straight playing furiously getting your quantum armor or gem armor complete. It's a GAME my friends. Something you casually do in your past time. If you get Quantum or gem armor in 2 hours (and yes I keep track of my play time) then you are obviously a NERD. I've played maybe 4 hours on my survival world? I've got a collector relay condenser and all that, but I don't have gem armor. And now I'm going to get a lot of replies saying 'HAHA NO GEM ARMOR IN 2 HOURS LOSER!' well you know why? I know it's just a game and is only there to spend your free time having fun on. So please guys, remember what your dad would tell you when you lost pacman or whatever and you got angry: "IT'S JUST A GAME SON, GET OVER IT" and btw I'm 13 shows how mature you guys are and if I had to take sides it's keep EE just dont use it and wih the guy who said why not use cobble stone farms? Which mod makes them into diamonds? EE BABY!!

Oh, I love logging in and finding a good laugh on these forums. Bold part is probably the best of it all.

[Adlersch]

Well, this is proof that EE is overpowered. With EE I got that amount of diamonds within 1 chunk, created from thin air. What the hell was I supposed to use all those diamonds for!? Well, I made Gem Armour and some Katar. The funny part is that I did not abuse any dupe glitch to get it, it only took me about 8 hours to get the full Gem Armour set, yes I had 4 Omega Klein Stars charged in no time.

*Snipped the rest*

So let me get this straight. One person was able to abuse the hell out of the mod and get to the endgame quickly. How is that the mod's fault? Even if everyone is able to abuse something it doesn't mean everyone will, or should. It may point out a flaw in the mod, but doesn't mean it's ruined and needs to be scrapped (Ruining the play experiences of a silent majority who are too busy playing the game either in SSP or on private SMP servers to be bothered with this argument).

[vitorsly]

Well, this is proof that EE is overpowered. With EE I got that amount of diamonds within 1 chunk, created from thin air. What the hell was I supposed to use all those diamonds for!? Well, I made Gem Armour and some Katar. The funny part is that I did not abuse any dupe glitch to get it, it only took me about 8 hours to get the full Gem Armour set, yes I had 4 Omega Klein Stars charged in no time.

Above all this, my method of gaining EMC was not even fully optimized yet, I could have easily made an EMC farm (with a size that fits in one chunk) that would have speed it up 5x. To make matters even worse, it was the first time I ever used EE, I just looked up some recipes, put some resources in and saw the possibilities of cheap stuff.

The core of EE is rotten, and it made my stay on that server revolve around EE and use the other mods to make EE even stronger, and thus within 8 hours I was in Creative Mode on a PVP server. New players didn't know what was happening to them when I flew into their base while pressing 'c'. EE was so overpowered that I got bored and was destroying everything on my path with my friend who had used my leftover EMC to create the second Gem Armour set. The server's spawn didn't last long either.

My opinion on EE is that it should be singleplayer only or non-pvp servers. As for IC2, they should remove quantum and nano armor for PVP. But I want to stop whining and slightly go offtopic (on topic when you consider the argument of people who say that you should look for a new server) to explain an idea that might help prevent "EE opinion battles".

The current way of finding a server is not very efficient, I have to go over 20 pages to find about 4 servers that have the setup of mods/plugins that I am satisfied with.

The server style I am looking for is a server that has:

- No BuildCraft (RP2 replaces it, + Buildcraft can suck up high amounts of server resources (I will only be missing the oil)) Note: This removes Power Converters also ofc.

- No Equivalent Exchange (I don't enjoy creative mode, + I like PvP)

- No Ender Storage

- No TubeStuff

- No World Anchors in any form

- No Iron Chests (Restrictions stimulate creativity, more inventory space in a chest reduces that restriction)

+ PvP (Factions plugin, not towny)

+ RP2 (Awesome mod, very clean and powerful, but not unbalancing)

+ Railcraft (I love making factories that handle incoming carts, unloading them, loading them etc.)

+ Nether Ores (Notch failed to make the Nether decent, this makes it decent)

+ Balkon's Weapon Mod (Muskets are just so nice and the long reload time makes sure you can't depend on them alone (Blunderbuss might need some work))

/ IC2 Solar Arrays ( I am not sure how balanced this is, haven't tried it yet. I usually start with geothermals (personal preference))

I've been looking for this, for a long time and on many websites. But what every server listing website misses is the functionality to have a checklist of what mods you want and what you do not want. This would make it so much easier to browse through servers and finding what you want.

If you did that you WANTED it to be overpowered!

If you don't like EE than why did you play in a server with it?

And EE is rotten. You are! You have the lack of will to not use something you consider bad.

As a wise man once said: " If you think a rule is unjust and you still follow that rule, then YOU are unjust"

[Xylord]

If you did that you WANTED it to be overpowered!

If you don't like EE than why did you play in a server with it?

And EE is rotten. You are! You have the lack of will to not use something you consider bad.

As a wise man once said: " If you think a rule is unjust and you still follow that rule, then YOU are unjust"

Well, to be honest, your logic is on pretty shaky ground. Does that mean that we should stop ourselves from using an included feature of the mod because it's too useful? After all, the goal of the game IS to become a powerful overlord that can influence the world noticeably and it's normal that we should try to attain this goal as fast as possible. The fact that macerators can double the output of ores makes it pretty powerful. Does that mean we should stop using it, even though it's an included feature of the mod? Of course not.

It's not as if he used the RM furnace dupe and then he complained about how OP it is, he just played the mod, and used the features included in it, like collectors and accelerated mining, and he concluded the progression was too easy and fast. Nothing wrong with that.

[Adlersch]

Well, to be honest, your logic is on pretty shaky ground. Does that mean that we should stop ourselves from using an included feature of the mod because it's too useful? After all, the goal of the game IS to become a powerful overlord that can influence the world noticeably and it's normal that we should try to attain this goal as fast as possible. The fact that macerators can double the output of ores makes it pretty powerful. Does that mean we should stop using it, even though it's an included feature of the mod? Of course not.

It's not as if he used the RM furnace dupe and then he complained about how OP it is, he just played the mod, and used the features included in it, like collectors and accelerated mining, and he concluded the progression was too easy and fast. Nothing wrong with that.

That's like building a quarry/mining well/mining turtle/what-have-you, macerating and smelting the ores, then using those ores just to build more quarries/mining wells/mining turtles/what-have-you, until their combined production is so massive that any progression in the game is broken and it ruins the modpack for you.

It's all about self-control. EMC is a resource, even if it is a universal resource. Just because it collects that resource doesn't necessarily mean you should use that resource to increase production to a broken level.

[vitorsly]

Well, to be honest, your logic is on pretty shaky ground. Does that mean that we should stop ourselves from using an included feature of the mod because it's too useful? After all, the goal of the game IS to become a powerful overlord that can influence the world noticeably and it's normal that we should try to attain this goal as fast as possible. The fact that macerators can double the output of ores makes it pretty powerful. Does that mean we should stop using it, even though it's an included feature of the mod? Of course not.

It's not as if he used the RM furnace dupe and then he complained about how OP it is, he just played the mod, and used the features included in it, like collectors and accelerated mining, and he concluded the progression was too easy and fast. Nothing wrong with that.

He says he is in a PVP map.

Unless there was a grand prize, he was doing it for fun ( I assume)

If I think a mod is so OP that it stops being fun, I don't use it ( same reason I don't like those obsidian tools mods. They are too easy to get and are too good!) ( Don't even get me started on those " Craft 9 coal togheter to get a diamond!")

Some mods CAN be too OP. I don't think EE is one of those mods. From what he says, the game was a peace of pie, so he could just use dark matter stuff or diamond stuff and it would be more challenging and fun. Being a god is fun but when you run out of stuff to do it becomes boring. When that happens start making challenges for yourself! Restrict the use of certain items and try to achieve the same ( or similar) results.

Also he is not saying EE it too useful. He is saying it is too powerful. A jetpack is useful but not OP (in my opinion). If someone DOES consider the macerator OP ( wich I don't and I doubt a lot of people do), then they have the option of not using it. The game becomes more challenging and most of the time, more fun.

But I see where your argument is coming from and as so I hope I clarified what I meant to say.

[Lothos]

i will tend to agree that EE has no place on a pvp server. the whole POINT of having it a pvp server is to make the populace battle over the resources. In that regard UU matter would have to go as well.

I do not understand though not wanting towny on a pvp server if you have the playerbase to utilize it. I can see with less than a dozen people it hampering more than helping. Towny is an excellent mod provided the configuration of the economy is strong enough to enforce it to the appropriate levels.

[miniboxer]

But... No resource is really finite. It's an infinite world game. All you have to do is walk a few more steps and you've got 16 more pristine chunks. And if you don't feel like walking, we have mystcraft, where you can create worlds simply for the purpose of stripping them to bedrock.

minecraft worlds aren't infinite, just extremely large. around the size of neptune.

the world generation just ends due to byte limits, and a fully generated map is approximately the size of neptune:

http://htwins.net/scale2/

[Xylord]

minecraft worlds aren't infinite, just extremely large. around the size of neptune.

the world generation just ends due to byte limits, and a fully generated map is approximately the size of neptune:

http://htwins.net/scale2/

Pretty much everybody knows that already, but it's commonly accepted that worlds are "practically" infinite for the purposes of the gameplay.

[TopAce6]

I'm going to throw my2 cents in, Remove EE, I don't know one single person who uses It on any server, Its the first thing that gets disabled/removed. It is completely cheating, and 100% unbalanced. Now endgame tekkit... quantum armor is cheating too but at-least that takes a while to get.