IC2 and more...

[weirleader]

Bread and Butter power doesn't explode. Combustion engines are upper tier and you shouldn't be running them early game.

I've blown up several Stirling Engines before I finally just gave up on them and switched to solely magmatics; don't Stirling Engines qualify as bread-and-butter?

Not complaining, just curious if I'm missing something important; because, to date, the only engines I feel like I understand (and won't do me more harm than good) are magmatics.

[CanVox]

I've blown up several Stirling Engines before I finally just gave up on them and switched to solely magmatics; don't Stirling Engines qualify as bread-and-butter?

Not complaining, just curious if I'm missing something important; because, to date, the only engines I feel like I understand (and won't do me more harm than good) are magmatics.

Steam Engines are pretty much stirlings that put out more power, don't explode, and require water. You can even bucket the water in early game. When they run out, they'll just lock up and need to be wrenched. I agree that the BC engines are pretty much across-the-board garbage, but we're looking into some great BC-compatible engines for Tekkit 1.1, and I think you guys are gonna be pretty happy.

[LightHero]

Awesome news...thanks for the update. I can 'deal' with the fact that IC2 is going away and it's not Tekkit's fault. I just really enjoyed their easy 'bread and butter' power setup where I didn't have to watch. I have used BC power...but, mostly for pumps and the quarry. I would use combustion engines, setup aqueous to feed them water (liquiducts ftw), and all they would need on fuel is a full tank + a portable. (2 combustion engines) - you can do the max quarry size without refueling. I guess I need to start finding new ways of getting power early Thanks again CanVox.

[Dash16]

It's bad enough that creepers explode, but from a design standpoint, bread-and-butter power should not explode. That was a poor design decision in BuildCraft, and one of the reasons it never gained as widespread usage as IndustrialCraft.

Try accidentally flipping a transformer in IC2 and watch your entire wiring past the transformer, or worse the machines hooked up to the wiring, explode. IC2 wiring and machines explode too, even if the generators (sans nuclear reactor) don't.

Honestly, you can get by without building BC pipes or explodey engines at all. Start off low tech connecting steam or magmatic engines directly to machines, then switch to redstone conduit once you can afford it.

[Aurrin]

Try accidentally flipping a transformer in IC2 and watch your entire wiring past the transformer, or worse the machines hooked up to the wiring, explode. IC2 wiring and machines explode too, even if the generators (sans nuclear reactor) don't.

Yes, but only until you get them set up. Once they're wired correctly, they don't need to be nannied thereafter. That, and the earlier accessibility for wiring are why people are still longing a bit for IC2. Thankfully, more power options are inbound, and that will hopefully help get things going.

[King Lemming]

Yes, but only until you get them set up. Once they're wired correctly, they don't need to be nannied thereafter. That, and the earlier accessibility for wiring are why people are still longing a bit for IC2. Thankfully, more power options are inbound, and that will hopefully help get things going.

I'm looking into a rudimentary conduit, just not sure how to set reasonable limits on it and make it bad enough that upgrading to actual conduit is a priority.

[Neowulf]

Limit runs to 5 pieces long?

Enery loss on part with a tesseract?

[AdmiralWarron]

What bugs me - and it seems many other players - is that we the main argument against IC2 is redundancy except as base for addons and being outdated or inefficient. This would be fine if you weren't also using Buildcraft, which has almost exactly the same problems, almost exclusively for the MJ base and the quarry.

Honestly just get rid of the Buildcraft baggage and concentrate on integrating MFR and TE as best as possible with a custom energy framework made for efficiency and scaling.

[King Lemming]

Honestly just get rid of the Buildcraft baggage and concentrate on integrating MFR and TE as best as possible with a custom energy framework made for efficiency and scaling.

Honestly BC's framework is not the issue - it's the implementation that is problematic. Conduits basically solve that part, the power implementation that TE uses is a heavily optimized BC power provider, which is necessary to interact with BC and not be overly kludgey. Generation can admittedly be changed up a bit. I'm a power system engineer IRL, so I definitely see the potential for a new system, but at the same time, there's enough stuff under the BC framework that I'd be hesitant to drop the native compatibility. Also, MJ just feels "Minecrafty" to me.

[theprolo]

BC isn't (yet) completely replaced like IC2 was, and the update times are fine unlike RP2. What makes you think it has the same problems as either? I think at the moment quite a few mods require stuff currently only available through BC to start up at any reasonable pace, so for now at least I think it's required in the pack. As for the power system, why bother making a whole new one in a modding world already so saturated with other power systems just to replace an established, widely used and compatible one already there and implemented? Not only is it a complete waste of time, it's attempting to solve a problem where there is none.

[CanVox]

BC isn't a great mod, but it does have the best oil gen currently, as well as the only pump that I'm aware of in any mod, which makes it important for that alone. It also provides a base for LogiPipes, which we'll be probably be including as soon as it's updated. As theprolo said, it's not actively problematic to include BC- it updates more or less on time, even though their 1.5.1 build was embarrassingly buggy. I'm not married to the mod, but it really won't be feasible to remove it for a few months yet.

And by the way, even when it is feasible to remove it, we won't be able to because everyone's worlds will depend on it at that point. That's why it was so important to pull out RP2 and IC2 when we had the chance: you don't get many opportunities to remove mods from a modpack, and it's important to take them when you get them.

[Kiwionrails]

Limit runs to 5 pieces long?

Enery loss on part with a tesseract?

That sounds like a really neat solution, a bit like (apologies for the IC2 analogies) copper cable is rubbish and *very* lossy over long distances, whereas the glass fibre ('normal conduits' in TE) barley loose anything :)

[CubeyBooby]

I think it should explode. TE doesn't explode nearly enough.

[Teraku]

No thanks, let's leave random explosions (that also chain to your other machines) to GregTech.

[CanVox]

Hello and welcome to my new mod thermtech, it makes everything more techy.

Version 0.0.0.0.1a (beta):

- Thermex Steam engines now catch fire if they run without cooling

- Magmatic engines now catch fire if they run without stopping

- Redpower engines now catch fire if they run

- Thermal Expansion and buildcraft blocks, including pipes, that catch fire explode almost immediately, destroying everything within 3 blocks and setting fire to everything else within 6 blocks

[Aurrin]

I'm looking into a rudimentary conduit, just not sure how to set reasonable limits on it and make it bad enough that upgrading to actual conduit is a priority.

Thank you very much. I think that the longer road to bootstrapping a full TE workshop, most notably the wiring, is the biggest reason many people were hesitant about it. One easy fix might be to allow it to be made of something other than hardened glass, which in turn requires an induction smelter and obsidian dust, which requires a pulverizer and diamond pick, which requires three diamonds... basically you have to do quite a bit of manual mining and machine building before you can even touch on the ability to wire power to said machines. Doable, but understandably somewhat frustrating for players used to being able to make rudimentary power distributions after just a bit of iron and copper. Maybe a regular glass version of conduits that is much more power lossy depending on length of cable (or manhattan distance if you want to fudge it for computational efficiency)? That'd make it easier to get started, but with a fairly compelling reason to upgrade as you start to spread out and automate larger things. (That kind of scheme worked pretty well in IC2, which was fairly effective at compelling you to upgrade to glass fiber when you reached a point of being ready to do large-scale farming and automation.) It would also allow you to create it with only two machines (or perhaps fewer if you just allow the dust to be packed in by shaped crafting) before you can wire power about.

Just some thoughts, mind you. Not trying to be too pushy.

[Melfice]

Applied Energistics has a manual grindstone that allows you to grind down ores into dust as well. You need three Quartz dust and a wooden gear and some stone and cobblestone to make it.

I realize it's just one small step into the whole chain you need to get those conduits, but still. It's a quick way to get a manual Pulverizer.

[xanthan]

Don't Conductive Pipes still exist?

[CubeyBooby]

Don't Conductive Pipes still exist?

They do, but I think what we're talking about here is an early-game solution specific to TE that hopefully isn't as cumbersome (or explosive.)

[King Lemming]

which in turn requires an induction smelter and obsidian dust, which requires a pulverizer and diamond pick, which requires three diamonds

Correct up until that last part. Igneous Extruder. If you bee-line for Conduits, you can have them quite easily, well before diamonds.

[LightHero]

Just curious - can you attach conduits directly to machines and engines without the energy cell? If not, we'd need a magma crucible as well which requires nether materials

Sorry - nub to BC/TE power - I used to just have power running to energy cell from MFSU/transformers and powered it that way without the engines. I also believe that removing BC would be a mistake...I do enjoy their engines for portable power, tbh...I use them for quarries/refineries etc. I enjoy parts of BC - just miss the power from IC2. BTW, I'm not seeing any volcanoes...are those gone too now? No more rubies/sapphires/green sapphires? And, from tekkit classic I was able to find emerald ores (very rarely) but it happened. I was never able to in tekkit lite...is that the same?

[Ysharma]

BC isn't a great mod, but it does have the best oil gen currently, as well as the only pump that I'm aware of in any mod, which makes it important for that alone.

RP2 Pump

UE Pump

IC2 Pump

[xanthan]

RP2 Pump

UE Pump

IC2 Pump

So unlikely to be seen on 1.5.2 for a while, I think UE is buggy as hell, and unlikely to actually see a release in the next few months that's good enough to be public.

Great examples!

[cerevox]

Much of UE is very stable. It just has a few segments that are bug farms. Also, the pumps you listed, don't extend downwards, they only pull from the block directly below them. Doesn't work on oil well. Or really any kind of well.

[CanVox]

More importantly, though, IC2 and RP pumps do not produce forge-compatible liquid stacks. So you can't use them to fill tanks from any mod, and they're really not replacements for BC pumps. As for UE tanks from the mod Fluid Mech, well...

(3:34:00 PM) CanVox: hey darkcow

(3:34:07 PM) DarkCow: hi

(3:34:24 PM) CanVox: I'm trying to get a recommended version of fluid mech for 1.5.2

(3:34:29 PM) CanVox: Do you know how close you are to producing one?

(3:38:03 PM) DarkCow: latest should work for 1.5.2 however i think there is a bug or too

(3:38:39 PM) Carch: latest does work for 1.5.2

(3:38:42 PM) Carch: used it a bit

(3:40:06 PM) CanVox: Then that doesn't really answer my question at all.

(3:41:51 PM) CanVox: How close are you to producing a rec build for 1.5.2?

(3:42:50 PM) BH5432 left the room (quit: ).

(3:42:59 PM) Dickface left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 190 seconds).

(3:43:29 PM) Carch: can't reach server now

(3:43:31 PM) Carch: wanted to relog

(3:44:35 PM) DarkCow: i'm just going to temp remove sentries til i fix it after all i'm the only one with any on the server

(3:45:06 PM) Carch: ahhh.. okay

(3:47:29 PM) CanVox: DarkCow: ??

(3:47:52 PM) DarkCow: i really don't make rec builds

(3:48:10 PM) CanVox: Does someone else? Should I talk to them?

(3:50:24 PM) naya [~[email protected]] entered the room.

(3:50:35 PM) Biohazard is now known as `

(3:51:25 PM) CanVox: What does that mean?

(3:55:46 PM) CanVox: DarkCow: Does that mean someone else makes rec builds, or that Fluid Mech doesn't generally have rec builds.

(3:56:02 PM) DarkCow: does general have rec builds

(3:56:06 PM) DarkCow: doesn't

(3:56:12 PM) CanVox: ok

(3:57:25 PM) CanVox: How do players know which version to use if they want to play fluid mech.

(4:07:06 PM) LiQuiD: Not

(4:11:17 PM) CanVox: ?

(4:11:37 PM) Bob_A_Red_Dino [~[email protected]] entered the room.

(4:12:57 PM) LiQuiD: The players don?t know

(4:13:01 PM) LiQuiD: They just test all versions

(4:13:03 PM) LiQuiD: And pick one