TrypHazard Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I put the post on for a suggestion and was willing for comments if anyone could see problems with it, i even wrote that. Pluto, who the hell are you anyways, i havent seen you on the server yet and when i do you'll probably be one of the people i see flying around with a swiftwolf building towers out of RM blocks or handing out 'gifts' of RM or HV solar arrays or something. 'End-game materials' are just that, they bring your game to an end and i for one do not what that straight away! I dont knock all of EE, some of the stuff is still useful, i as well as others do think collectors and such ruin gameplay and i was only trying to suggest a way to make it so that we could have an interesting, challenging mode of play and all be on the same level of progression. Thankyou V00doo for the info. on EE i have not looked into any future changes that may occur and i do agree in principle with not banning items, though your points about blaze rod farms etc are quite valid. --Just i thought i just had...is there not plug-ins for having multiple worlds on the same server?? If this could happen we could split worlds, one for those wishing to overdose on RM through the use of collectors and eventually get bored and blow the place up with nukes and one with a few items disabled like i have mentioned for those of us wish to take our time and have a more challenging game!!-- EDIT: My point was really that i realized, even with the fact that i don't use collectors only condensers, that i have no need to go chop a tree or farm for food and since ive been on the server i have only been mining just over half a dozen times just to pick up random items to condense cos i already have one of most of the items at hand. Without the collectors/condensers each job serves a purpose that really needs to be done for what its meant for. The game is 'MINECRAFT' where you mine and craft and the mod pack is 'TEKKIT' where you have to get technical not just just place an item in a box and let it generate everything for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jared smeedd Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Just added you. Write me a 3000 word essay on why you think you should be unbanned, and I'll think about it. Also, you must use the word "indubitably" at least 4 times in proper context. Ok can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V00doocat Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I tend to watch a lot of vids where mod developers play /beta test together on a single smp server. (i guess this gives them the best testing ground) I do this because I am interested in how mods develop etc. Anyway before I start projectile vomiting more text I just wanted to leave a paragraph written by Phanimar himself regarding EE3. Hope this may be of help. EE2 is gone as far as development goes. EE3 is meant to be a clean break. They are very aware of the unintended effects EE2 had on other mods. .............................................................. Quote..... I haven't compiled a final list of what is in EE3 yet for the public, but here is the short list of what is in/out; Red Matter has been removed Collectors have been removed Condensers have been removed The Destruction Catalyst/Hyperkinetic Lens have been removed The EMC system will remain, but it will be changed to accomodate new and more interesting mechanics There will be a method to move EMC around in "wires" More configuration options will be available to both players and server admins EE3 will feature an API, which is not complete at this time A transmutation system similiar to the Transmutation Tablet will exist, but is not ready to be disclosed at this time End Quote... As I said. If EE3 is in tekkit when the time comes, it will be a very different thing from what we are discussing. Just thought it was worth putting out there before the discussion went any further :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fingersofsteel Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 did the server crash for everyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V00doocat Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Yeah it crashed. Were you using world edit garrett ? Edit : mailed KS7 he's normally at work this time on a Sunday though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1289ctm Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 my name is 1289ctm i am 13 years old I live in the state of Michigan in the USA I have been playing since 1.2.5 and have been on several tekkit servers I would like to play on this server because It looks like a small friendly tekkit server. I have gone through many tekkit servers but none of them were very good. Also, I am goodish at tekkit and I want to help others who aren't as good at tekkit, but i would like some help too. I have always wanted to be a member in a whitelisted server where i can not be griefed and so i can play with other active tekkit and mc enthusiasts. I hope you will let me on the server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garretteagle1 Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I had Regenerated a small area a few minutes before it crashed. I guess that could have been it but i'm not sure. Here is my two cents.... I would like to see a server restart. It brings back the challenge and fun (not to mention clean up the environment and get rid of any lag). I would like to see collectors and relays removed and potentially even condensers along with the other things we have already banned. What v00 said with the things being removed from EE I think will make the game more so much better. It was cool when I first started playing tekkit, but now I hate them; it takes the fun and challenge out of the game. I mean you can 'beat' the game in a matter of a couple of days. I know a lot of people wouldn't like the removal of collectors, relays, etc. but those are the people that rely on them to play the game and become a RM tycoon in 24hrs. A possible solution to obtaining items that cannot be obtained when collectors etc are gone (RM, DM, Etc) is a possible admin shop. We can spawn in the items however you would have to match the emc value with items to pay for it. Just something to consider. Garrett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fingersofsteel Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 garrett, as you can see, i am using collectors, but also- you can see i never run out of things to do, and allways online (when i can ) you can see that i dont abuse my RM and i have practically made only three items that use them (armor, flight ring and katar) i wouldnt like to see a server full of giant quarries that all together will supply materials that are not sufficiant to a single HV solar array... i practically use collectors just so i dont contaminate the area with giant holes (that also cause lag) premissions will be a perfect solution (for now) in my opinion because it gives ks, garret, epy and the other admins the ability to know who can be trusted with "end items" and who can not. i do not think that collectors take out the fun of the game because they allow you to use the full potential of your imagination and creativity, while still creating more and more materials in legit ways too. i know i am "the 1 precent" here but ill love it if you will understand me. i only wish to add that in the occation of ks and the admins deciding to remove the "end items" i will keep playing on the server and enjoy it as much as i do now. i do not have to have the EE items but they do add to the game in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldhardt Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 This pretty much sums up the anti EE argument: Figured I'd ought to throw my opinion in too. EE is an important part of the game because it allows players to delve into every intricate part of Tekkit. You want to waste 5 months trying to get the materials necessary for 1 HV solar array? Good for you, you must have a lot of free time. I, on the other hand, want to be learning the complexities of nuclear power, redpower logic circuits, and the extensive farming aspect of IC2 without hollowing out the entire world with quarries (I hope I'm not the only one that sees the irony in DC mining being banned while quarry mining is A-OK). If you don't like EE, simply don't use it. Don't ruin other people's experience just because you feel that an aspect of the game is a bit "cheaty". One of the reasons that I joined this server is because it allows people to play Tekkit the way they want while still being having the multiplayer factor. As a final note, I do agree that people shouldn't be handing out stacks of redmatter to new players, i think people should be allowed to start however they wish and play however they wish (obviously within the rules). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloneco Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I'm putting an immediate ban on mining with Destruction Catalysts. I'm sick of having to regenerate giant underground areas that people have mined out. If you want to put the game on easy mode, feel free to use collectors, but don't run around clearing out massive underground caverns that I have to go and fill in. Who in particular made you come to this decision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloneco Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Ok the EE argument is getting riduculous if you don't like it dont use it. Also KS i suggest that you look through people bases and find out who is abusing this so badly and for you to either reprimand or deny them the right to use the mod as a whole. I would prefer to not see this mod go because many would not have the freedom to build and explore the intracies of the tekkit mod which I think is the reason the mod was put in, in the first place. If you take the mod out I believe nothing will get done at all and there would not be much there at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrypHazard Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Firstly i don't think we should call this an arguement, more a discussion................ If EE3 is going to be as you have quoted V00doo then i think i would definately prefer it that way, though we don't have an indication of how far away that is. Until it is implemented i side with garrett in thoughts to re-start and stop the use of collectors/condensers when we do. It would certainly wipe the slate clean as far as un-used buildings and pipeworks, etc, etc are concerned but i also realize that people has spent a lot of time on the creations they have and this option will be entirely up to KS to consider anyway. Fingers, i did mention in my original post that started this little discussion that i know not everyone abuses the collectors and its wealth and will still be creative instead of bored and destructive to gameplay. EE still has some nifty items in it that i would like to see stay, its just the over-powered stuff that seems to take out the challenge i dislike. As for making holes in the landscape with quarries, we could have a policy of filling back in land-based quarries with dirt/cobble and marking the perimeter and signing it so that no-one quarries it again. This may mean putting alot of what you took out back in, but if we dont have condensers we wouldnt have much use for it. True cloneco, things would take a lot longer to develop but it would make it more worthwhile in the long run and mining, farming, trading, etc would have much more purpose and not just be a novelty. P.S. I don't know why people get so wound up about such discussions...i could say similar things like "if you don't like the discussion, don't partake in it", but i don't........ .....................did i get away with saying it??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V00doocat Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 We seem to have a culture of keep blaming mods or items for the behaviour of individuals. That's why I am so in favour of action logging. If someone blasts a hole through the side of a mountain for no reason other than their pea sized brain told them to do so, then the person needs to banned. Not the tool that they used to carry out that particular moronic action. As for resetting map. It's only been a month or so that we have all been on it. I have plans... A lot of people play this game with the long haul in mind. It will be months yet before I even finish whats on my list now. And as for lag etc. A new map may indeed give us a server as smooth as silk. But 1 month after that we will still reach the same position. So I would hate to see a new map. I would hate to see any items banned. I would however be very much in favour of new player restrictions for say 3 weeks. By that time we know whether they can be trusted with such items and whether they will use them wisely or go nuts. Edit: also before people get into a state. This is a discussion.. KS has not said anywhere he plans to remove EE. The only times he ever mentioned it was possible restrictions down to MKI and mining with DC. So in fact so far he has not even hinted of banning any items outright. Second edit: As for EE3 and when it will be ready who knows. All I can say is apart from EE3 and RP all the major mods in tekkit are already up to date and mod packs are waiting on EE3 and RP. I can see a mod pack / tekkit update that uses the latest MC build and all the mods we love in the quite near future . For that I would be happy with a new start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ks7 Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 I'll try to get the server up as soon as I get home. As far as EE goes, I'm still of the opinion I was before - I'll leave most of the stuff unbanned, but I'm going to be carefully monitoring it. Fingers is a good example of why I don't plan on removing g it - there are players that can control themselves with it, and I would rather get rid of the players that have no self control than get rid of it in it's entirety. On a related note, the overall problem with EE isn't that it's imbalanced - on it's own, it really is a pretty well balanced mod. The problem is that the weighting it gives to certain items is incredibly low compared to most other mods. For example, InustrialCraft, BuildCraft, and RedPower all treat diamonds as precious, rare materials, while they are the equivalent of pocket change in EE. When you combine the mods, the resources you need for the other mods become trivial to obtain, since the resource weighting in EE is so much different. Also, the idea of a new world map did pop into my head again the other day. My main concern is that there are now 15 or so people who are on on a daily basis, and I want to make sure that the majority are OK with it. I can always keep the old world files if people end up not being OK with a new world. People have put a lot of work into their creations, but it definitely would be nice to start fresh with no issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jared smeedd Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 True True Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jared smeedd Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 This pretty much sums up the anti EE argument: Figured I'd ought to throw my opinion in too. EE is an important part of the game because it allows players to delve into every intricate part of Tekkit. You want to waste 5 months trying to get the materials necessary for 1 HV solar array? Good for you, you must have a lot of free time. I, on the other hand, want to be learning the complexities of nuclear power, redpower logic circuits, and the extensive farming aspect of IC2 without hollowing out the entire world with quarries (I hope I'm not the only one that sees the irony in DC mining being banned while quarry mining is A-OK). If you don't like EE, simply don't use it. Don't ruin other people's experience just because you feel that an aspect of the game is a bit "cheaty". One of the reasons that I joined this server is because it allows people to play Tekkit the way they want while still being having the multiplayer factor. As a final note, I do agree that people shouldn't be handing out stacks of redmatter to new players, i think people should be allowed to start however they wish and play however they wish (obviously within the rules). Even though my opion on this server dosent matter anymore i think this is the most true EE statment possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrypHazard Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Valid points made by all, even you jared. That's my OPINION. my opion on this server dosent matter anymore Hows the essay going by the way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V00doocat Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 And do we have another new map in a months time when we encounter the same issues ? I think we are focusing on an area that will give short term relief for little long term gain. I will obviously repsect the wishes of the majority and or KS's decision. And I won't throw my toys out the pram. I will keep on playing and build again. But one thing I do ask, please don't let this hang over the server for weeks. It's things like this that kill a community as one by one people drift off not wanting to build in uncertainty. I prefer certain doom rather than endless uncertainty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Silver Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I think EE is a vital part of Tekkit. While some items such as collectors are too OP, other items such as condensers and red matter stuff should not be banned. While yes EE makes resources easier to get, for those who have the time to spend gathering all the necessary resources without it, good for you. I on the other hand do not. I do not wish my Tekkit experience to be me, in a hole digging up copper to make some cables for a generator when I could just throw a piece in a condenser. For me it's about making machinery systems rather than making the machinery for said systems. I prefer the idea of a new player "trust" system rather than banning. With EE I have done nothing but create amazing(in my opinion) builds, not break down mountains with the click of a button. Plus IC2 has plenty of items to grief (i.e. mining laser and industrial tnt). On the topic of starting a new world I do not believe it would be a good idea. As V00doo has pointed out before in about a month or so the problem would only be back, but now people would have lost all of their builds AND be playing with as much lag as they are now. I think a better option would be to just go through each players base and checking for lag sources/ helping people figure out a better method for their machinery. Another thing to consider would be going through the log-ins and seeing who has not been on for long periods of time, informing them of this, and if they still do not come on often remove their base/machinery. For people that say the game is lagging, some methods to help combat this are: 1. Go into your optifine menu and turn all your settings to the lowest possible. 2. Turn your render distance to tiny. 3. If suddenly things get very laggy look up, especially when chatting with someone, as there is nothing to render in the sky things run smoother. Once again EE should not be disabled as it is very critical to gameplay and the world should not be restarted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubernator44 Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I put the post on for a suggestion and was willing for comments if anyone could see problems with it, i even wrote that. Pluto, who the hell are you anyways, i havent seen you on the server yet and when i do you'll probably be one of the people i see flying around with a swiftwolf building towers out of RM blocks or handing out 'gifts' of RM or HV solar arrays or something. 'End-game materials' are just that, they bring your game to an end and i for one do not what that straight away! I dont knock all of EE, some of the stuff is still useful, i as well as others do think collectors and such ruin gameplay and i was only trying to suggest a way to make it so that we could have an interesting, challenging mode of play and all be on the same level of progression. Thankyou V00doo for the info. on EE i have not looked into any future changes that may occur and i do agree in principle with not banning items, though your points about blaze rod farms etc are quite valid. --Just i thought i just had...is there not plug-ins for having multiple worlds on the same server?? If this could happen we could split worlds, one for those wishing to overdose on RM through the use of collectors and eventually get bored and blow the place up with nukes and one with a few items disabled like i have mentioned for those of us wish to take our time and have a more challenging game!!-- EDIT: My point was really that i realized, even with the fact that i don't use collectors only condensers, that i have no need to go chop a tree or farm for food and since ive been on the server i have only been mining just over half a dozen times just to pick up random items to condense cos i already have one of most of the items at hand. Without the collectors/condensers each job serves a purpose that really needs to be done for what its meant for. The game is 'MINECRAFT' where you mine and craft and the mod pack is 'TEKKIT' where you have to get technical not just just place an item in a box and let it generate everything for you! ok so ive never gotten how others can look at what others have and say "its not fair" if you dont work for it.... I worked hard to get collectors/arrays/condensers and i reap the rewards.... how does it effect you? it shouldnt, not at all..... its minecraft for pete sake. its not a RTS where resources are critical to winning... minecraft isnt about winning.... its about creating.... so i dont get it. if you dont want to use a mod, dont punish others for using what you dont want to use. this isnt an mmorpg that has a serious pvp element to it. it wasnt designed that way. why do people have this mentality, it drives me up the wall! its like looking at a millionare and saying "i want that much money why does he have that much!? not fair" well actually, it is fair, because he worked his butt off to get there..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jubba26 Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 We seem to have a culture of keep blaming mods or items for the behaviour of individuals. I think this sums it all up right here. It's a mod that we need to use with common sense. I myself have a condesner that I use from time to time. Say when I'm building something and I come up about fourty bricks short and I don't want to run back to the mine. I change all my rare gems to sapphire because I like them more. But when people use this from the start and somones base comes up in a matter of a few hours after they join the game, or they condense items to put in a shop that somone else is -working- actively to create in a more creative way to stock their own that it can take the spirit out of others in the game. So yeah, I'd say don't disable the mod entirely but crack down on the people who are using it in poor judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrypHazard Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Mustard?..Let's not be silly. Anyways what was i saying, ok so it is obvious that we already have varying views on this and the only way to satisfy all of us is to stick to what we have now and KS's original outline of not banning things. After all i suppose that is one of the reasons that many have been attracted to the server. I don't want anyone to lose the fantastic builds they have already created, that wouldn't be fair by any means. I know i said i would be up for a re-start to wipe the slate clean of lag issues but not if others would not want this. And actually i have experienced much less lag this past week than ever before and as far as i know we haven't had any real problematic crashes recently just a few simple resets. It is possible that whatever KS, Epyon and Garrett have been checking/editing/moving about in the past week has made a real difference. So yes, in a sense i can play my own game in my own corner of the world whilst others generate everything without lifting a finger, i can do that and set my own challenges but the reason i started this discussion was an attempt to create a better, more equal community life of trading. If items are harder to get they become more valuable and so trading is more important. Also to be doing the things in minecraft that your supposed to be doing, like mining and farming for food with a real purpose,not "just throwing a piece (of silver)in a condenser". Great builds would be feats of hard work and determination creating higher satisfaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrypHazard Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Uber, im not saying i want the wealth that others are making out of collectors. I just think that collectors are the easy way through tekkit and without them we would have a more interesting gameplay and not have shops stuffed with stacks of quantum armour, uu matter and HV solars being sold by people who dont care about the payment they receive for it cos they are swimming in EMC. I appreciate people want to create inventive buildings and machinery, so do i, but why straight away without working for it(and i dont call building a collector/array and condenser hard work by the way). It may as well be a 'creative mode' server if to many people are into 'instant gratification'.......... I do use a condenser myself at the mo, but it has quickly occured to me that i no longer even chop a tree down.............where has minecraft gone if you don't need to punch a tree?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloneco Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Firstly i don't think we should call this an arguement, more a discussion................ If EE3 is going to be as you have quoted V00doo then i think i would definately prefer it that way, though we don't have an indication of how far away that is. Until it is implemented i side with garrett in thoughts to re-start and stop the use of collectors/condensers when we do. It would certainly wipe the slate clean as far as un-used buildings and pipeworks, etc, etc are concerned but i also realize that people has spent a lot of time on the creations they have and this option will be entirely up to KS to consider anyway. Fingers, i did mention in my original post that started this little discussion that i know not everyone abuses the collectors and its wealth and will still be creative instead of bored and destructive to gameplay. EE still has some nifty items in it that i would like to see stay, its just the over-powered stuff that seems to take out the challenge i dislike. As for making holes in the landscape with quarries, we could have a policy of filling back in land-based quarries with dirt/cobble and marking the perimeter and signing it so that no-one quarries it again. This may mean putting alot of what you took out back in, but if we dont have condensers we wouldnt have much use for it. True cloneco, things would take a lot longer to develop but it would make it more worthwhile in the long run and mining, farming, trading, etc would have much more purpose and not just be a novelty. P.S. I don't know why people get so wound up about such discussions...i could say similar things like "if you don't like the discussion, don't partake in it", but i don't........ .....................did i get away with saying it??? I'm just a bit frustrated about all of this. The abusers should be banned there is nothing wrong with the mod. That's not what i am saying it shouldn't be banned because of a couple people that's just not fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milky_Assassin Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Name: Milky_Assassin0 Age:19 Location:Ohio, USA Experience: Minecraft for 2.5 yrs., Tekkit for about a year. Reason: I am tired of looking for a reliable server on the open forums so i can play tekkit with other people when i almost anytime. Suggestion: chop tree2, or a forestry mod plz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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